Hi all,

I've seen the pictures of the PSR-9000 pro at http://home7.inet.tele.dk/js/musik/740pages/ - it looks the same as the PSR-9000 - the only change I see: 76 keys; no mic settings (between keys and pitch bend wheel). Will the 9000 pro stay without a "Mic" feature?

I currently own the PSR-8000, I would like to upgrade to PSR-9000, but there are several reasons it's hard for me: 1) the heavy weight; 2) I hate Mic settings between keys and pitch bend/modulation wheels, which should be strictly together, as I'm using pitch bend while I'm playing the keys; 3) It's very hard to use accompaniment with sync start/stop buttons to the center of the keyboard. It's should be placed at the left side of the keyboard (as my currently PSR-8000). As I see, they didn’t change it in the PSR-9000 pro. They should better change it! I'm asking all of you guys who has an opinion at Yamaha, ask them to change place for these to important buttons. Nothing will happen if PSR-9000 pro will look some differ from PSR-9000.

By the way, as I’m writing here, I’ve asked you several times already, and I didn’t got an answer: What exactly does “After touch” do? I couldn’t see any difference when on or off. Give me any example to try it out.

Thank you all, I’m waiting for any answers…

Sams

Hi Sam, I will try the aftertouch issue, although you may have to wait for someone more knowledgeable to correct my answer.

The short answer is that aftertouch does whatever it is assigned to do, and that can vary from voice to voice. On the PSR-8000 the aftertouch implementation is very disappointing. Only a few voices use it. Try the sweet tenor (sax) and the pan flute, and you will find that aftertouch controls vibrato. I think that Yamaha took a very conservative approach to aftertouch, because many of their "regular" customers are still have trouble with the idea that the sound varies according to how hard you strike the keys.

In principle, aftertouch can be used to control many different parametes. It could control pitch, volume, filter cutoff, etc. I think that aftertouch is one of the most important features of a keyboard because it is a continuous controller (like the pitch bend wheel or the mddulation wheel) but right at your fingertips. The three continuous controllers differ in their defaults--the pitch bend wheel is center sprung, the mod wheel is unsprung, and aftertouch is sprung at zero. Therefore, each has functions they are better suited to. However, in principle, as opposed to how they are implemented on the PSR-8000 each could be assigned to any function. I have demoes a PSR9000 and found the aftertouch implementation to be more useful than on the PSR8000.

I demoed a Roland XV-5080 sound module yesterday using a Roland XP-60 as the controller. The aftertouch implementation on the stock sounds was quite inspiring. You could use aftertouch to pitch bend up koto strings, for example. For me, originally a guitar player, using aftertouch for pitch bend up is very natural.

Althouch I question how useful you will find this information, I would be remiss if I did not point out that there are two types of aftertouch, channel (monophonic) aftertouch and key (polyphonic) aftertouch. The PSR8000 has only channel aftertouch. Low end arrangers have no aftertouch, most high-end arrangers have channel aftertouch. The only arranger keyboards that I know of that had key aftertouch as well as channel aftertouch are the General Music S2 and S3.

Polyphonic aftertouch is the most expressive of all the controllers in the midi specification. It allows module the different notes of a chord by different amounts. For example, you can bend the pitch of two concurrent notes by different amounts, as you might on a guitar.

As a feature, key aftertouch is dying out, largely because it is expensive to implement and because synthesists tend to be trained on pianos, which do not use continuous controllers. I hoping their is a resurgence of interest in key aftertouch once players start treating the synth as an instrument in its own right, rather than an emulator of acoustic instruments and vintage synths.

If they are going to emulate a vintage synth, they should emulate the Prophet T-8 which had key aftertouch. Another very rare synth with key afterouch was the DX1. Ensoniq used key aftertouch on its early synth (the SQ1) and some samplers (after the Mirage, but I forget the model).

Key aftertouch is expensive mainly in the keyboard, which must have a sensor for each key. I am not sure there are any keyboards in production that use key aftertouch. Many sound modules in production support key aftertouch. I am sure Kurzweils still do, the high end Rolands do. The original Emu Proteus line supported key aftertouch, but this feature has been dropped from the Proteus 2000 line (otherwise I would buy the new Planet Earth module).

I trust this is more than you wanted to know.

Hi Sam

On the PSR9000Pro, I have no more information than you do, but here are some guesses anyway. We will all know more in a week as the European introductions are beginning.

The mic implementation on the Pro will be more sophisticated than on the non-Pro. They probably moved the mic controls in response to complaints from people who feel the way you do about the accessibility of the modulation and pitch wheels. The PSR9000Pro will not have speakers, but will only be slightly lighter than the nonPro, about 10 pounds heavier than the PSR8000. I doubt the sync/start buttons will be moved. Note that you can control this and other functions with a foot switch if they are not where your hands would want them.

Sam.
A few months back, Yamaha sent there head designer into my store to discuss the next generation keyboards after the 9000 and 9000pro. I can assure you that I spoke with him regarding where the sinc buttons were misplaced on the 9000 and even how complicated the intro/fill buttons seem to be. It's too easy to mistake a button on the 9000 products. At that time, this designer from Japan assured me that he currently monitors this forum and others, so please everyone, keep talking here about what you like and don't like. They are listening! It just takes a while to get it right doesn't it!
George Kaye
Kaye's Music Scene

Ok George and Yamaha, here's what is needed on the PSR10k.

1. If you are going to allow sample playback, why not make it compatible with some multisample standard. If nothing else, A5000 multisamples should be playable by the PSR10k. This simple upgrade would greatly enhance the value of the keyboard, allow much greater sound quality, and stimulate the sales of sample disks and your A5000 samplers. What is the downside?

2. Continuous controllers. The 9k provides pitch bend, mod wheel, 1 foot controller, and channel aftertouch. This is not enough, especially, if VL and AN plug ins are used. I am not picky about what continuous controllers. I would suggest a second mod wheel, a bank of sliders, a ribbon controller (or Z1-type pad), a second foot pedal. A little further out would be a USB port into which a joystick could be attached, allowing each joystick dimension and button to be assigned a midi control number.

3. Also, removable solid state (smart media) storage for samples, styles, etc. Large sizes, at least 128 MB should be accommodated.

The foregoing are three very obvious and easy-to-implement improvements. The following are a little more wishful

4. Time-invariant pitch shifting for user samples. Compatibility with sample standards solves the problem for commercial samples. However, for the personal favorite novelty or utterance, the ability to pitch shift a lover's names without chipmunking or drowning would be nice.

5. Polyponic VL synthesis at least on a plug in.

6. Weight reduction. There is no reason for a 76-note or 61-note keyboard to weigh over 40lbs. With a some effort you could get it under 30lbs. If an adequate removable solid state media solution is provided, you could eliminate the internal disk drives, and have them connect over USB.

7. Ok, I know it is too expensive, but I still like polyphonic "key" aftertouch.

Other suggestions?


[This message has been edited by Clif Anderson (edited 10-06-2000).]

I just got off the phone with the Product Manager from Yamaha. I called him to tell him how incredible the new DJXII is. I think this will be the best Christmas present for anyone between the ages of 10 and ? who don't know how to play a keyboard but want to have some fun.
I asked him when we will see the PSR9000Pro in the USA, and he said not before sometime in January.
I thought you might like this update on availability.
George Kaye

OK! If Yamaha is listening, I ask one small thing: Indicators at the "Registration memory" buttons. (As Technics have, and as Yamaha have on thier own previous models, as PSR-500). It's much easier to control the memory buttons by indicators than looking on the LCD every time.

[This message has been edited by Sam Noels (edited 10-24-2000).]

In reply to Cliff Anderson's message:

- Continuous controllers - I hardly use any contrllers which require me to take my hands off the keyboard. So it's aftertouch for me. However, the one controller I'd like to see accomodated is the Breath Controller - after all this was Yamaha's invention.

- I disagree about getting rid of the hard disk in favor of flash memory, especially in the light of your suggestion that standard sampler formats be accomodated. However, flash memory cards may be a viable way to expand the instrument's memory, so that whatever you loaded in it last time you played remains there the next time you power it on.

Another suggestion, which could be implemented even on PSR9000 is providing "disk link" capability for the custom style memories. This way, whenever the custom style flash memory area is filled up, the remaining custom style buttons are still functional, allowing to call up styles from the disk (like Rolands do). This may be slower than calling up a style from memory, but still fast enough to be used in a performance.

Regards,
Alex

Hey Alex, good points.

As I am learning more about what is available sample-wise, I agree it is premature to get rid of the hard disk. I am currently salivating over some of the Spectrasonics offerings, including the upcoming Vocal Planet. There is no way those 8 hours of samples would fit in affordable flash.

My favority controller is polyphonic aftertouch. There is no other controller that matches its expressiveness. The only arrangers to generate it were the General Music S2 and S3, to my knowledge. I am using a Roland A50 controller, which transmits Polyphonic aftertouch and a Roland 5080 module which responds to it. With the arranger, currently a Yamaha PSR8000, I need a minimum of three pieces of gear.

Even with fingers on keys you can use foot pedals and even ribbon controllers (ala Kurzweil K2500/K2600. I still think sliders are nice, e.g., to set mixer levels.

Returning to Spectrasonics, they are incorporating a feature called "Groove Control" with their sample disks. I am not sure how this works, but I bet it would integrate well with the custom style facilities on arranger keyboards. Has anyone looked into this?

Clif