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#184618 - 12/23/02 06:25 PM Finally a GRIPE re: Yamaha Tyros
Scottyee Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/01/99
Posts: 10427
Loc: San Francisco Bay Area, CA, US...
Ok Guys, I've owned my Tyros for two weeks now and have been enjoying it immensely overall, except for ONE thing that is really BUGGING me. I KNOW you've all been WAITING to hear something bad about the Tyros, so here goes:

Have any other Tyros owners (except for myself) noticed that the 'bass part' of styles which utilize 'Mega Voice' Bass patches, sound way 'TOO LOUD' in the style's overall mix?

Also, if you play the bass voices themselves, you will immediately
notice that all four Mega Voice Bass patches (Mega Voice Aco Bass,
Mega Voice Finger Bass, Mega Voice Pick Bass, and Megavoice Fretless) are FAR LOUDER than all the other Tyros 'bass' voices (Cool Finger Bass, Aco Bass, Cool Fretless, etc). As a result, all the style patterns that utilize a Mega Voice Bass patch sound FAR too loud (bass emphasized), and results in an un-natural boomy bass
sound. On the other hand, If the bass patch is changed to a 'non' Mega Voice bass sound patch, the overall volume mix sounds far better balanced (pleasing).

Unfortunately, the ONLY way to permanently change a style's 'individual part' volume level is by going into the mixing console, editing it, and then saving the style into a brand NEW location (User Memory or Hard Drive), because there is no way to write OVER any of the Preset styles themselves. Having to do this not only requires a lot of labor (& time), but because the Tyros
Music Finder can only access styles located in the Preset area and the limited space of the User Memory area, but NOT styles saved on the hard drive, this severely limits the the number of edited styles which can be accessed via Music Finder.

Frankly, I can't understand WHY Yamaha programmed all their internal styles to have the Mega bass voice sounding so LOUD in comparison with the other voices in the style. Also, why are the Mega Voice Bass patches themselves so MUCH louder than the other bass voices (patches)?

I love the Tyros in so MANY other ways, but the OVERLY LOUD Mega Voice Bass part in MANY of the preset styles is a problem which I cannot seem to easily resolve. The only workaround I've found so far is to lower the 'overall' Style volume level (from 100 (default setting) to 85 in the 'balance' window, but this is a very limited compromise , because it not only lowers the Bass Voice, but ALL other style voices (parts) as well. Is there an easy solution to this problem that I've overlooked?

Btw, this problem is MOST noticeable when played thru external speakers (EV SXa100's, etc), and not as noticeable when played thru headphones.

ALL Tyros owners: PLEASE check this out on your Tyros keyboard and respond with YOUR feedback and opinion about this. Am I the only one that is upset by the overly loud Mega Voice Bass volume problem? This problem does not exist on my PSR2000 as its Preset styles do NOT incorporate Mega Voices.

Other than this, I still really LOVE the Tyros, because everyday I discover yet another great feature that it has which is not supoprted on the PSR2000, so I hope an easy solution can be found.

Thanks,

- Scott
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#184619 - 12/23/02 06:52 PM Re: Finally a GRIPE re: Yamaha Tyros
dlstarry Offline
Member

Registered: 02/04/01
Posts: 698
Loc: MN. U.S.A.
HI: Scott
If you are programming your songs into the registrations, can't you
make the adjustment to the mega bass voice to lower the volume
and have it saved in the registration ?
Denny
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Denny
KN5000, Yamaha PSR-SX900

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#184620 - 12/23/02 07:01 PM Re: Finally a GRIPE re: Yamaha Tyros
trtjazz Offline
Member

Registered: 08/01/02
Posts: 2683
Scott,
You can solve that, by going to: mixing console>EQ & mixing console>compression these two menus are masters mixes and you can adjust the sound globally to what you want.

Give those a try and see if it solves it for you....don't forget to save your changes under store button H.
jam on,
Terry
_________________________
jam on,
Terry
http://www.artisans-world.com/

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#184621 - 12/23/02 07:20 PM Re: Finally a GRIPE re: Yamaha Tyros
Scottyee Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/01/99
Posts: 10427
Loc: San Francisco Bay Area, CA, US...
Hi Denny. Thanks for your response. You make a Good suggestion, but unfortunately, saving a 'lowered bass volume' in Registration Memory also saves the associated 'style' with it, which I DON'T want, because I want to be able to use the Tyros Music Finder database to freely select different songs, all utilizing - DIFFERENT preset styles, yet still have the bass volume for 'ALL Styles' lowered.

Terry, THANKS for the EXCELLENT suggestion. Though I'm not very experienced or well versed in the way the Tyros EQ settings & Compression work, I'll try experimenting with these settings. In the meantime, perhaps someone else more experienced might offer some specific Tyros EQ and/or Compression settings which they've discovered which actually WORK to alleviate the overly accentuated BASS frequencies that I'm complaining about. I'm keeping my fingers crossed. I guess it's off to the Tyros manual now to read up on all this.

- Scott
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#184622 - 12/23/02 07:53 PM Re: Finally a GRIPE re: Yamaha Tyros
DonM Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/25/99
Posts: 16735
Loc: Benton, LA, USA
Scott,
Thanks for Beta-testing the Tyros. Keep working. Find all the boo-boos and maybe Yamaha will correct them. Let me know when it's perfect.
DonM
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DonM

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#184623 - 12/24/02 12:26 AM Re: Finally a GRIPE re: Yamaha Tyros
Dreamer Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 02/23/01
Posts: 3849
Loc: Rome - Italy
The Tyros is a fine keyboard, but like all the newly released instruments has a few things that need to be fixed. This is a message which appeared in the Yahoo Tyrosworld Forum. I have removed the actual member names for the sake of privacy.


From: "*****"
Date: Tue Dec 24, 2002 1:17 am
Subject: Re: [tyrosworld] Some Gripes about the Tyros


I agree that this program/facility is frustrating.

I installed my Vince HD this afternoon (which comes with an unbelievable number of styles, programs, registrations and other musician oriented goodies!), and started to download files. Vince had put useful files in a couple of the partitions, and these took too many minutes to recall for display.

The slow updating makes the facility almost useless. I could not wait long enough and finally loaded my favorite files via floppy. The Tyros OS internal file system is fast; but the USB link can't cope if there are any number of files on the disk.

At some point I did something routine that caused the USB port to generate an error. I don't know what finally cleared it, but I did have to reboot the PC, toggle the Tyros power and disconnect the usb cable (I think this is what did it), before I could restore communication.

BTW, I was able to rename directories from the utility program. Right click on the name. You can make a new fiolder and type in a name using the new folder icon on the toolbar.

I also agree regarding MOST megavaoices. But HiString and 12 string are much more tolerant and the bass voices might be possible (I have not tried them yet).

Regards,

*****

***** wrote:

I spent a day transferring midi files, and that was after the 2 hours
it took to get the file transfer program to actually work. There
should be no Christmas bonus for the engineer who thought this would
be better than a simple SCSI or zip connection. Thanks for tying up a
days worth of my time. I can usally copy everything I need to (via
scsi) on the PSR9000 in about 40 minutes. It took 7 hours on the
Tyros. I hope to never use it (the file utility) again. I'll go back
to the prehistoric floppy....at least it's consistant. AND WHAT'S
WITH NO KEYBOARD. Get real. Who was the brainless idiot that removed
the ability to use a pc keyboard to input data like file naming....Oh
yea, it was the same person who removed scsi transfer!

My other beef - there is so much hype about mega voices. Yes, I've
downloaded all the samples. They are way too cool! Sure would be nice
if you could actually play one. No way Yamaha says. The mega voices
are for midi implimentation. Now I bet the average person that buys
one of these beauties is not a technical wizzard, will not have a lot
of experience with midi and won't have a clue about velocity control
and keyboard mapping. The mega voices realed in a lot of us. Their
are only THREE PAGES in the manual dedicated to mega voices. No
hints, no how toos. C'mon Yamaha, you can do better than that. I
personally feel that Yamnaha gave us the green weenie when it came to
mega voicing. At least one can play the live and cool voices.

This is marketed as a Digital Workstation. Must be because it has an
LCD screen. No CD burner. I guess that will come out on the Tyrex.

Finally, it would have been cheaper from a manufacturing point of
view to drill a hole on each side of the front panel and then have
the music stand (with longer supports) be inserted into the holes -
like the PSR 9000. My drummer wanted to know why the "handles" were
so tiny. It wasn't until I inserted the music stand into the holes
that he figured out what they were for.

Instrument sounds good - a lot of old, some new.
_________________________
Korg Kronos 61 and PA3X-Pro76, Roland G-70, BK7-m and Integra 7, Casio PX-5S, Fender Stratocaster with Fralin pickups, Fender Stratocaster with Kinman pickups, vintage Gibson SG standard.

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#184624 - 12/24/02 12:57 AM Re: Finally a GRIPE re: Yamaha Tyros
Graham UK Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/20/01
Posts: 1925
Loc: Lincolnshire UK
Scott. I think from what you say about the balance of the Mega Bass Voices in the Styles is possibly that the Styles were made long before they decided to add the Mega Voices. They have just inserted the Mega Bass Voices into the styles without considering that Mega Voices respond to velocity layers which is causing the balance problem you have noticed.

Its no good going the EQ Route because this will effect every other style and sound on the board.

Dreamer....That's possibly the same chap at Yamaha that left off the 3rd right voice Split from the 9000 & 9000Pro.

Graham UK

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#184625 - 12/24/02 03:26 AM Re: Finally a GRIPE re: Yamaha Tyros
trtjazz Offline
Member

Registered: 08/01/02
Posts: 2683
About USB and file transfer of styles at least....I thought it worked fine and had no grief at all with it. The 30 or so style files I transferred, went as fast as they do on PC from one file to another.

About the EQ and mega voices while true it will effect across the board, but it will only effect the frequency and width that is chosen and leave the rest alone. So Scott needs to dial in the bass freq. that is bugging him and I believe that will solve his boomieness. Parametric eq's work that way and the Tyros has a 5 band eq, so the remaining freq's can be left alone.

But if you do want one of my "they could have done a better job on" the choir voices are just good, but not great.
jam on,
Terry

[This message has been edited by trtjazz (edited 12-24-2002).]
_________________________
jam on,
Terry
http://www.artisans-world.com/

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#184626 - 12/24/02 05:46 AM Re: Finally a GRIPE re: Yamaha Tyros
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
scott,

can you adjust the mega bass vol via the mixer (not the eq), if you used a reg panel instead of the "music finder" to access the styles. Or is this problem there regardless?

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#184627 - 12/24/02 07:19 AM Re: Finally a GRIPE re: Yamaha Tyros
Scottyee Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/01/99
Posts: 10427
Loc: San Francisco Bay Area, CA, US...
Donny: Yes, I am able to adjust (turn down) the volume of the 'bass track' in the Mixing Console (style part) window, but this affects ONLY the presently loaded style. Unfortunately, the bass track volume will revert back to the louder level once ANOTHER style is loaded. What I WANT to be able to do is turn DOWN the 'volume' of the 'bass track' for ALL styles universally.

Donny, yes, you can save the volume level of a specific track in 'Registration Memory' but it only affects one specific style, not all styles universally. The problem lies when I'm playing 'out the box' and using the 'Music Finder' to select songs.

Graham: I agree with you that adjusting the universal EQ & compression settings isn't really addressing the REAL problem: the bass track VOLUME level. I tried playing with the EQ & Compression settings, and though they do alleviate the 'perception' of an overly dominant bass track, it unfortunately, also affects the overall sound of all the other parts (both style & live playing).

An IMPORTANT point I need to make here: When I had auditioned the Ketron keyboards recently (both the SD1 and XD9), I had also felt that their style's too, had 'overly loud dominating bass (and drum) tracks. Perhaps it's just that my musical taste is a little more conservative, and that I prefer a more acoustic 'less hyped 'in your face' bass track.
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