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#184028 - 10/07/06 07:03 AM Re: how to find what notes or chords work in a song
doc-z Offline
Member

Registered: 08/10/05
Posts: 436
Loc: Norway
Trident, yes that is basically how it works.
Essentially there are only three chords in a song, all others are variation, you can literally play most songs (allthough there are exceptions) with only three chords. The tonic, the dominant and the sub-dominant chord. The dominant chord is to right of the tonic (the key of the song), and the sub-dominant is to the left of the tonic, this makes the tonic, the dominant chord for the subdominant. As a basic rule of thumb, the dominant resolves to the tonic. And the subdominant resolves to the dominant. The minor chords on the oposite side is the paralel keys. Am is the paralel key of C, meaning the scale is the same for both keys. So essentially you can exchange any tonic chord for Am, the same goes for the subdominant, and the dominant.

Example: (key of C)

2-5-1 progression. This is by far the most common progression ever.
In the Key of C:

Dm - G - C

If we simplify this we get:

F - G - C
Or
Subdominant - Dominant - Tonic

Once you get this you can add stuff like 7ths, suses and stuff like that later... But get yourself a keyboard, or a guitar and learn the six chords of a key, then basically you can learn any song in that key.

Doc-Z

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#184029 - 10/07/06 02:23 PM Re: how to find what notes or chords work in a song
Uncle Dave Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/01/99
Posts: 12800
Loc: Penn Yan, NY
You MUST learn the scales first, at the very least. The chords follow and then the embellishments.

There is no shortcuts if you want o be able to figure it out for yourself.

The circle of 5th and 4th are great tools for finding key signatures, but I disagree that they help find the chords in any given key. That's simply not true, according to what I've learned. There are infinate combinations of chords within any given key, and following the 5ths will not get you there.
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#184030 - 10/08/06 04:08 AM Re: how to find what notes or chords work in a song
doc-z Offline
Member

Registered: 08/10/05
Posts: 436
Loc: Norway
Uncle Dave.
The circle of 5ths is a great tool for beginners to figure out chords. Unless you are doing soloing, scales aren't that important. For very basic comp, or using an arranger, or strumming a guitar, the circle of 5ths is a great tool!

Let me do another example, a more complex one:

Let's take "Angels" by Robbie Williams.
In the key of D major.

Last part of the chorus:

D A
She won't forsake me
C G A D
I'm loving angels instead

Let's analyse

Tonic Dominant
? Sub Dominant Dominant Tonic

Ok here we have a chord that doesn't fit into the pattern, what has happend?
Well the song changes key... C is not a note in the D major key that song is in. But lets look again a little closer. The thing that actually happend is: The song changes key. From D major, to C major, then back to D major again. Using this pattern

Tonic Dominant
Tonic(in C) Dominant Dominant(in D) Tonic(in D)

If we look even further, and substitute a chord from the D major key with the C, the chord that shares most notes with C is Em. Let's try that..

Tonic Dominant
Paralell Sub dominant, Sub dominant, Dominant Tonic.

That works to.. not as good as the C, but it works.

The point of this is not that every song correctly conforms into the circle of 5ths, but that you can essentially play most songs using it in this fashion.

Doc-Z

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#184031 - 10/09/06 11:58 PM Re: how to find what notes or chords work in a song
trident Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/22/04
Posts: 1457
Loc: Athens, Greece
Thanks doc-z,
I guess a printout of the circle of 5ths in forn of me will improve my pick up of chords in an unknown song.
Thanks again,
Theodore

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#184032 - 10/10/06 01:57 AM Re: how to find what notes or chords work in a song
Taike Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/28/02
Posts: 2817
Loc: Xingyi, Guizhou (China)
Here you go, Theodore:
http://home.austin.rr.com/jmjensen/CircleOf5thsFun.html

There are many more of such sites. Just google for "circle of 5ths".
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#184033 - 10/10/06 03:28 AM Re: how to find what notes or chords work in a song
Uncle Dave Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/01/99
Posts: 12800
Loc: Penn Yan, NY
Now, THAT's a cool site for the real discription of how to use the circle to it's fullest !
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#184034 - 10/10/06 07:09 AM Re: how to find what notes or chords work in a song
trident Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/22/04
Posts: 1457
Loc: Athens, Greece
Taike thanks, it'll take a little time for me to absorb all this!!!

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#184035 - 10/10/06 08:47 PM Re: how to find what notes or chords work in a song
SANMAN Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 02/28/02
Posts: 30
Loc: West Hills, CA, USA
Absorb this???

From that diagram, one could design the great pyramids, redefine planetary motion, and play with 5th dimensional quantum mechanics.

Now... what's a "C" scale again?

mark
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#184036 - 10/11/06 09:13 AM Re: how to find what notes or chords work in a song
Carrie-uk Offline
Member

Registered: 02/23/04
Posts: 168
Loc: England
Sometimes I'm glad I play by ear. Music reduced to mathematics can be horribly boring in my opinion!

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#184037 - 10/12/06 11:35 PM Re: how to find what notes or chords work in a song
doc-z Offline
Member

Registered: 08/10/05
Posts: 436
Loc: Norway
I agree Carrie! The best tool for playing music is your ear!

Doc-Z

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