What do you think is the best format for backing tracks... Mp3 or Minidisc? My #1 priority is quality, tho I think they're about equal. Next is stability and convenience... setting up and rearranging song lists.

I often play live (guitar) with backing tracks I've made myself. Having used minidisc a lot, I've finally switched to CD-Rs (not mp3s), since they sound better to my ear. Listners/patrons probably would never know the difference. I shopped around until I found a CD player (actually DVD) that would play CD-Rs (some don't) and with the brightess screen where I could read the track numbers in low-light situations. So far, everything works great.

My vote is for MP3's..I use the format with a laptop. This system is far superior than the other systems.I use Sonic Foundry software to record[wave] and render as MP3. I use 192 bitrate, but even 128 is CD quality..I can not tell any or very little difference between wave and MP3..With MP3 I can edit, change keys, change tempo, with Acid Pro[Sonic Foundry]. The space saving ratio is 10 to1 in favor of MP3[Data verses Audio]..With the laptop you can organize thousands of songs with full names and key info. They can be displayed around 100 tunes on a page. you can quickly scroll and find any MP3 in seconds. All this on a bright readable screen..You can quickly set up break tunes when your off stage..This system allows you to record your music and backup vocals for your shows, allowing you to play along and sing lead with your MP3's..The Mini Disc sounds good but does not have the same benefits, likewise with a CD player..

Fran, what program do you use to organize and play back? Thx

Organization is done within the explorer window of the laptop..My prefered playback program is Winamp..

I agree ! Why Mp3 when the CD quality should be better sonically speaking ?

Dano

Dano you will have to convince me that the Cd[wav] is that superior..the key is the bitrate conversion to MP3, and as I mentioned I use 192 bitrate that exceeds the 128 bitrate[CD quality].. I am pretty sure you may not have the experience in MP3 recording and conversion. If you did ,you would find my evaluation to be true..Respectfully, Fran

Fran, can you hear the difference between 192 and 128 bits when played back thru your PA?

I believe I can, but what is more important, you can hear the degradation in lesser bitrate, for example 56 or even 96 bitrates.. I think many people are listening to MP3's with the lower bitrate conversion and drawing conclusions that this is the quality to be obtained with MP3 conversions..

I totaly agree with Fran regarding MP3's, They sound great!
I have the excact same setup and use it every night with no problems. Today if your not using a Laptop on stage for Mp3's, CD's, SMF songs, Lyrics, your working too hard, its a nessesity for performance, plus a solid Backup... IMO.

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www.donnypesce.com

Glenn...
As you saw when you visted, MP3 is my choice. For a couple of years I used the minidisc...but navigation was more difficult, the player took up more space than I would have liked and, frankly, tweaking quality of sound when recording was a major task...at least for me.

I don't have a laptop...but that may be in the future based on some of the posts I have seen.
Eddie

Whilst I don't use MP3's for this purpose the minimun bearable bitrate for my ears is 128.

I used MD's since they came out, and switched to MP3 on a laptop. My MD player has as jog wheel that lets you search for a new title while one is already playing. Without THAT feature, I wouldn't be able to use one effectivly.

The laptop has made it possible to incorporate SMF, MP3 and WAV all at my fingertips, and life is so much easier now.

Sometimes, a client will hand me a CD during a show ... I pop it in.

Sometimes, I am playing for a family group and we're all having a ball untill some of the little kids get restless ... I switch to MP3's of their tunes for a bit ..

Sometimes, I need to put out more sound than my "two handed" arrangements will allow, so I kick into SMF mode and play on top of larger, more powerful arrangemets.

It's all a question of "What is needed, WHEN"

Having all the formats in one unit is a great advantage, and I've said before - the laptop provides light, lyrics and break tunes ...... what else do you need?

If you want to use mps, you should have a look at the Thompson mp3 program.
http://www.mp3licensing.com/index.html

At 128kbs it is about 1/3 the size of a standard 64kbs mp3 file but at 2x's the quality. This is a very good program and I use it.


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jam on,
Terry http://imjazzed.homestead.com/Index.html

Good morning,

So when you guys play your SMF's from the laptop, do you send the midi signal to your keyboard so that it is still the tone generator (vs. the soundcard of the laptop)?

Thanks.

mike

Mike I usually midi into my G1000 as a sound source, but occassionally I will use the Roland wave table in my laptop. It sounds very good[SC88h], better than others[XG50] to me. Although the G1000 is much better, particully the drums,brass etc..

To add to what Fran said, by having the sound card in the laptop you now have a great backup in case your Kb goes down on a gig too. Just play the SMF and sing along to get you thru the gig.

What do you laptop users recommend. Processor speed, RAM, HD Memory? And any other add ons and tips for a novice in this area?

Do you access files via mouse or keypad? How do you position laptop for easy access without being too visible by the audience?
Eddie

The way I designed my stand, the laptop sits about 1 inch above the keyboard, and off to the left of the screen. It's well below the line of sight, and while it IS in plain view of my audience .... I try not to stare at it. I only look at it to decide what comes next, or the occasional lyric for a new song that's not yet commited to memory.
I don't disguise the fact that I am digitally enhanced. Only a fool would think that all the sound I produce comes from two hands, so mostly everyone expects to see some sort of computer-aided device. The only major drawback is that most people also know that the pc can be used as a Karaoke device, so they are always comming behind me to look for the words. They are always dissapointed to find out that they can't just join in. (pity)
I hope Donny can post a picture for you soon, because I just can't imagine getting to that progect. My life is still in a whirlwind, and I can't fit anymore tasks into my schedule. Kate had to come home from school today because she's got a majot headache and certain "female only" ailments. Since her experiment with the Tylenol factory, she can have NO medications of ANY kind, so she's in alot of discomfort. This No-Meds policy lasts for a few months to purge her system of all attachment to the drug. Poor kid - she's always had a hard time with these issues in the past, but now, she can't even take an asprin.

I'm concerned about you guys in NJ . dano

Dan,

No need to worry about us...........
Believe me, Uncle Daves Setup is the way to go for the busy giging solo KB entertainer hands down!

It's a "Beautiful Thing"

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www.donnypesce.com

[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 04-10-2003).]

Dano you are right, those NJ guys are strange, I am glad I am from PA[the state not my father]..If the visual of a laptop doesn't bother you, there is NO better way to go...

Eddie, I use a CTX[1998 model] Pentium2, 200mmx, with a 12 gig hard drive,, it has a built in midi port[so I don't need a midi interface]. Winamp for playing MP3's and VanBasco to play Standard Midi files..If you are going to look for a used model I would recommend a Pentiun2 or higher with a 400 minium speed[not that a lower speed is not okay for playbacks], necessary for the newer audio/recording/edit software..

Hi Guys,
can anyone recommend any sites where I can find out a bit more on mp3's, audio recording etc. It's something I haven't been interested in until recently, when I bought my KN7000.

I eventually worked out what the audio side of the keyboard could ie it can play & sync with mp3 files. So instead of having to edit midifiles or styles or having to have my keyboards all midied together, I decided I might try recording songs as a backing tracks (in audio format) using the sounds of the original instruments ( 9000 pro or VA7) and save it as an mp3 file for use in the KN7000.

Basically means I can use the kn7 anywhere, and still be able to play backing tracks from the other instruments.

My problem is I want to find a bit more technical info on the diffence between wav files, mp3 files etc.

Thank you
best wishes
Rikki

Rikki,
Here's som eto get you going.
http://www.digitalmusicworld.com/html/hardware/home.asp
http://midiworld.com/index.htm

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jam on,
Terry http://imjazzed.homestead.com/Index.html

Terry...

Can you tell me more about mp3Pro? At 128 bits does it sound better than regular mp3 at 128? Does it organize and playback songlists conveniently on the laptop? Thx

Glenn



[This message has been edited by GlennT (edited 04-10-2003).]

Glen, Do yourself a favor, get hold of an older version like Sonic Foundry Acid Pro 3,you can record and render an MP3 up to 320 bitrate.. It appears to me that Terry's program at 128 bitrate sounds inferior to Acid Pro 3.. It is possible that the source Terry used before conversion was sub standard.But I would assume Terry's work was recorded at CD quality, and that seems to be a lower quality than Acid Pro conversions[multi layered MP3].. Terry, I am referring to the compression and not the performances..Tyler and Walker sounded the best to me..

Happy Friday!

I hadn't heard about Mp3Pro yet so I went to the link Terry provided and downloaded the demo version of Thomson's encoder. The demo version only does 64Kbps but hey, it's free.

I didn't have any CD's handy in my office but the guy next to me (our Web guru) is a huge Beatles fan so Beatles it is.

I extracted two tracks from Magical Mystery Tour using Sound Forge 6, converted them to mp3's at both 128K and 64K bps. I then took the .wav file and used the Mp3Pro encoder to create a 64K pro-style. I also included the actual .wav file for comparison if you can connect to it.

I'll only leave these up for a day or two for the purpose of testing new technology.

(wouldn't want to be guilty of illegal distribution)

http://stream.lib.umn.edu/mp3pro/beatles.htm

What do ya think?

mike

I can tell that the 128 version sounds better than thte 64 versions. Can't tell much difference in the Pro version. But I'm old and my ears look funny.
DonM

Thank you Terry,
I'll check them out.
best wishes
Rikki

Fran, UD, Donny, and others using Mp3 + SMFs

If you are set up for both Mp3 and SMFs off you laptop, is the SMF superfluous? That is, with the ability to incorporate audio with the mp3, but not with the SMF, plus all other advantages of the mp3, can you see any advantage of still using SMFs rather than converting everything to mp3?

The only reason to keep files in SMF format would be to save space, or play lyrics, or send the midi signal to a keyboard for improved sound quality. I'd like to slowly change all my "go to" midi files to MP3, and add backing vocals on all of them. That way I can have "my sound" using an acoustic piano or guitar as my main axe.
I'd be lost without the harmonizer, so I will convert as many as i can....a little at a time.

That makes sense, because it's kinda the way I've been thinking.