Scott better duck if your asking for demos

Not remarkable at all to me, as it goes to show that Yamaha's extensive arranger buying public marketing research, of which I was an active participant (see my above posting reply) paid off for them. Scott

it's very simple, we are right and Yamaha is wrong.

just because they are bigger and richer and cleverer than us doesn't make them NOT be totally a....holes re the 76 issue.

Sony had the superior Betamax and stupidly wouldn't
license it so they lost all the business to the crummy VHS...

RCA came out with a Videodisk system before VCR's..they
wouldn't put a no-profit price on the player to get it
in everyone's home, which would have made them an
unstoppable market for the sale of their disks..they
overpriced it so people chose the vcr they could tape
from . (irony was hardly anyone actually taped) RCA got
slaughtered financially from this stupidity.

Scott, it is foolish to ask why we think we need the 76..
the fact is we want it, we like it, and we don't think we
need to send you samples to justify why. the E60 is my
first 76..I played 61-key boards all of my 7 years of
becoming a keyboard player to augment my sax and vocals. it has been perfectly OK, not a big problem at all
to play the 61...as you point out. but the 76 is just better.
better in a lot of ways you are not considering. we believe
there are a lot of us out there who would buy a 76 if
Yamaha went about it the right way.

the E60 is under 30 lbs.!! The ypg/dgx 88's are much lighter yet. A yamaha 76-key s700 could still be under 30 lbs. A 76 doesn't have to be a behemoth. ketron makes heavy boards..but their 61-key sd5 is a pound heavier than their 76-key sd1. Sure, if it's between a g70 and a T2 that's 45 lb v 32 lbs..a lot to consider for many who
don't want do deal with heavies..but 30 lbs vs 25 lbs?
that's a difference between 2 relative lightweights..a
far different thing.



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Miami Mo

Scott...

If you use your arranger SOLELY for true arranger mode playing, then I would agree that 61 is (just barely) usable.

But the minute you use them for SMFs, or strictly live playing, where the possibility of needing to play a full two handed piano part, or a usable range for TWO sounds with a split is needed, 76 is a real, legitimate need.

And if these possibilities AREN'T what Yamaha expect you to use your arranger for, why are they including sequencers and MP3 playback? I'm afraid that your argument (and, unfortunately, your ill-advised recommendation to Yamaha) aren't backed up by the facts. From reading the posts here at SZ, it is obvious that the majority of players here use SMFs or MP3's, at least SOME of the time (you do, yourself, don't you, Scott?).

So WHY make that recommendation to Yamaha, knowing that most players use arrangers for MORE than just simple arranger play? And market research? Don't make me laugh... WE are one of the biggest Yamaha arranger focus groups available. PLENTY of people screaming for a 76 note Yamaha here...

Market research is the art of deciding where and who to ask questions to get precisely the answer you wanted to hear in the first place...

As I said, Yamaha's problem with 76-ers came about because they didn't take an already established, well liked arranger, and simply graft a 76 key-bed to it. They HAD to reinvent wheel while they were at it The 9kPro wasn't a disaster because it was 76 notes. It was a disaster for all the OTHER reasons. It would have been a disaster with 61 notes. Good job they didn't make one, or they might have stopped making 61 note arrangers, too!

[This message has been edited by Diki (edited 08-22-2007).]

Scott,

the people on this thread have a better idea of why the 9000pro was flop than you or Yamaha, evidently. just go
back and read what they have to say..IT WAS NOT BECAUSE
IT WAS 76 KEYS!!!!!! that's like saying the Edsel was a flop
because it was the first car Ford named for a relative..
best never to do that again!!!!! right!

i just reordered an improved E60 I was unhappy with first time around, not all that thrilled with this time, and the
pa800 and s900/700 were really good choices. I didn't
do this impulsively or out of ignorance, I've been researching for months. why? 76 keys!!, and I don't NEED
76 keys. i just WANT 76 KEYS DAMMIT!!!

and I'm not alone, so better watch your back, Scotty,
one of us may be coming after you soon, with evil intent..
so if you value your health, take heed....better tell your
clients at Yamaha to get with the 76 program...we are
absolute fanatics..lunatics..yes...beware.....remember
what happened here in 17..76? REVOLUTION!!!!spirit of 76.. 76 trombones!!! don't fight the power!




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Miami Mo

Roland make a 76 note arranger,Korg make a 76 note arranger, Ketron make a 76 note arranger, they all sell lots and lots of units....guess yamaha must be right then??!!

Just because they make 76 note arrangers, doesn’t mean they sell lots of them.
As an example, when Roland launched the E80 it began outselling the G70, and these days its sales are even farther ahead. (Just ask any dealer)

Bill

The lack of sales of a 76 key Yamaha 9000 pro or the out selling of a subsequent 61 key Roland arranger over its 76 predecessor, can not be blamed on the 76 key factor.
There are lots of other factors that make the difference (like sounds, OS, ease of use, styles and so on).

Also, to suggest that the only reason for a 76 key keyboard is for full piano mode clearly demonstrates a lack of understanding of the value and use of 76 keys.

A person would want a 76 key arranger for the same reasons that a person would want a 76 key workstation.
In addition to those reasons, specific to an arranger, a person would want a 76 key arranger so that
1. they could have more left hand room to trigger full 3 and 4 note chords. You may be able to barely get by with 61 keys but why should we the players always have to make major sacrifices and adjustments because the manufacturers (who probably don’t play as much as we do are trying to cut corners).
2. When playing in style mode, you have more room to have more than one sound in the right hand. You can have a split in the right hand. So if you want to have brass licks in between a melody (if you are doing instrumental playing) you can do that with out having to change sounds while you are playing.
3. Having a 76 give you more flexibility on a gig to be spontaneous. You don’t have to pre plan to take a 76 key controller keyboard if you want to play using 76 keys. Again why should we have to pay so much for an arranger and still have to make all these major adjustments and sacrifices?


Maybe if Yamaha do some real market research and stop looking for a reason to justify their already made decision to not make 76 key arrangers, they would see the value and the money in a 76 key arranger.

Seriously, how much more cost and size would have had to be added to a 76 key PSR 900?

And how many persons, if the PSR 900 were 5LBs more and $100 more and had 76 keys would not buy it?

Can persons say that they don’t want 76 keys because it annoys them or that they have a natural dislike for 76 keys?

If going by the number of people on the this forum who keep crying for a 76 note keyboard...not a whole lot...just the same few over and over again...I'd say Yamaha made the right decision to remain at 61 keys.

Using SMF would make using 76 notes a less important factor IMO...unless you're playing a bass line, which seems to apply to very few members on this forum...and they seem to be quite happy with their Rolands and Korgs and other brands.

I think Scott has the right idea...a controller with 76 keys for those solo piano gigs....cool.

Yamaha's market research has shown(and I know)that the number of people who want a 76 note arranger is not enough to justify its production....that's a fact whether you like it or not.

Abacus is right...the E80 far outsells the G70...and not just because it is newer...it's because it has built in speakers and conforms more to the needs of the home user to which the MAJORITY of these instruments are marketed and sold.

I would say to these people who want Yamaha to make a 76 note Tyros/PSR...get over it...it ain't gonna happen...so...buy a Roland or Korg or another brand that suits your needs.

Face it...you aren't hurting Yamaha as much as you think.

Ian


------------------
Common misconception...size and weight equal quality and performance. Don't be fooled.

Ian, I have not doubt I didn't hurt Yamaha buying a G70. Wanna buy my Tyros?

I have tried the using an 88 note controller keyboard along the my Tyros2. Since the majority of my gigs are 1 hour nursing home or cocktail hours, it's a little bit more setup work than I care to do for 1 hour.

I like being able to spread out at the keyboard with 61 keys I feel cramped in, I can only speak for myself, but it feels good sitting at a keyboard with at least 76 keys.

If arranger keyboards are target marketed toward home users, why is it that the DGX and YGP (I'm assuming also targeted toward the home user) are 76 and 88 keys. Maybe I'm naive, but it just doesn't add up. Or are they targeting little Johnny and Judy who are going to start piano lessons and are told they really should have 88 keys to learn piano properly?



[This message has been edited by Stephenm52 (edited 08-23-2007).]