If someone is interested here is a screenshot
of the NI B4 running on the Mediastation X-76.

http://www.lionstracs.com/misc/b4.jpg

Since Lionstracs formed a joint venture with an U.S. organ producer they will have a common booth at the upcoming Musikmesse in Frankfurt where you can probably see the new 2 manual organ (with Mediastation technology inside) which besides the GM/GS voices provided by dream DSP can run various VST plugins which are controlled by the organ's manuals, drawbars, pedals etc.

see here for more infos about Lionstracs at Musikmesse Frankfurt (booth number etc) http://www.lionstracs.com/modules.php?op...order=0&thold=0

cheers,
Benno
http://www.linuxsampler.org


[This message has been edited by sbenno (edited 03-17-2004).]

Congratulations! VST inside is very cool!

And 2-manual arranger is more interesting to me than 1-manual.

Benno,

Give us sounds. A .jpg is okay to see that NI B4 is on the MediaStation but that doesn't tell us how it will sound through the X-76's sound engine. We know that NI's B4 is capable but WILL it be AS capable playing through the MediaStation X-76?

Please try and make and then post some demos of the NI B4 running under the MediaStation at Frankfurt. Then we will be able to determine how good the NI B4 will sound using the MediaStation. Plus I look forward to more demos of other sounds that are on the MediaStation too.

Best regards,
Mike

[This message has been edited by keybplayer (edited 03-17-2004).]

I have upload in the server some new screen shoots..
here is the link: http://www.lionstracs.com/index.php?module=Static_Docs&func=view&f=/screenshots.html

the B4 in high qality: http://www.lionstracs.com/modules/Static_Docs/data/gui/b4s.gif

the equalizer: http://www.lionstracs.com/modules/Static_Docs/data/gui/jamin1.png

We waiting you at the Musikmesse 2004, our Booth: B26, Hall: 5.0
We showing the NEW Organ with two 76 manuals and Mediastation technology.

Cheers
domenik

I'm getting curious now :
NI B4 runs on MAC and PC WIndows..... VST runs on MAC and PC (WINDOWS) The Mediastation uses LINUX as OS. Please explain ?! (Virtual PC or emulator ?)

Mike is sooo right : Show us online how the Mediastation user interface works and even more important how does it sound without NI or other softsynths. (softsynths are everywhere and NOT new at all)

Please have a look at the Yamaha demo's on Clavinova and Tyros by Michel Voncken and Peter Baartmans.

Liontracks is introducing a 2 manual keyboard/organ already and did not find time to show the first instrument ?

Hi,
keybplayer, roel: the VST plugins are for windows but thanks to Linux's magic you can run windows VST apps and reroute the audio and midi ports to native linux ports.
With the added benefits of the greater stability and real time performance Linux offers over Windows.
Since the VST plugins are written for the x86 (intel/amd etc) CPU they will run at full speed under Linux, it's just about rerouting audio/midi and GUI calls to the linux APIs.

(plugzilla and muse research receptor use similar methods but for the average customer it's not apparent that their run linux inside).
The B4 sounds just as it sounds, bit for bit exactly as on Windows.

Regarding the soundcapabilities of the mediastation you have to see the system as a whole.
Dream DSPs are good but DSP technology alone is not going to be the solution for all audio needs of keyboarders. (Because any DSPs are not as flexible as modern CPUs with lots of RAM)
This is why the Mediastation offers choice: Dream DSPs (with up to 256MB samples) + Gigabyte samples streamed directly from disk (for getting faithful reproduction of natural instruments), additive/subtractive synthesizer, VST plugin hosting and more technologies will be added over time (through free, one-keypress internet updates).

roel you wrote "Show us ... how does it sound without NI or other softsynths. (softsynths are everywhere and NOT new at all)".

This sentence does not make sense when refering to the Mediastation because you have to look at the Mediastation as a whole and not only the DSP part.
The DSPs are comparable to other keyboards DSPs (Ketron and others use Dream DSPs too) but as said above cannot compete with the flexibility of modern 3GHz CPUs with hundreds of MBs of RAM.
The Mediastation tries to get out the maximum of each technology by combining and integrating them in an easy to use hardware.

If you want to save then then a low cost PC + softsynths is still the cheapest solution to make music but strangely enough musicians still buy lots of keyboards.

There is certainly a revolution going on about how music is made but musicians still need hardware to interact, an alphanumerical keyboard and a mouse are not the right interface to musicians, especially those that are not too PC-savy. They need buttons, faders, knobs, and at max a touchscreen.

On the other hand traditional MIDI keyboards that are engineered using the usual embedded design and custom chips/DSP cannot compete with the innovation rate that the PC sector is experiencing.
The Mediastation's goal is combine the best of both worlds.
Of course there is still some scepticism since we are following a new approach/philosopy and we are in some sense rewriting the rules how keyboards are built.

Those that stated the earth was not flat were hanged and burned too :-)

Anyway my personal opinion is:
- embedded design is going at much slower pace than PC technology, this keeps prices high and performance/features/flexibility low
- traditional keyboard makers have invested heavily in their legacy embedded technology and don't want to risk venturing in new territories since the old "warmed-up soup" still sells well and probably a new line of PC based keyboards would destroy the value of their legacy stuff.

Probably over time, PC-based MIDI keyboards will not need DSPs inside anymore so that MIDI sound generation can be done entirely in software driving the price of the keyboard even lower.
But for now Lionstracs has decided it's not fleasible yet to go without DSPs.

Not to mention the whole opensource philosophy.
Keyboard makers are usally extremely secretive because they fear the competition.
We take a different approach, the same that made Linux so successful: sharing as much technology we can with others to spur innovation, drive down prices and increase the quality of audio software.
Of course someone can/will be able to copy parts of our software. That's permitted by the license as long as they release all modifications (see GNU GPL license).
In this times of globalization the only chance to survive is to stay ahead of the competition by constantly innovating.
The times you developed a product and then sold the same overpriced legacy stuff for decades are fading, everyone knows that but no one admits it publicy.

As for audio demos, don't worry more stuff will follow, for now the Musikmesse is using up all the resources.
I hope at least a couple of SZ users can come to our booth at Musikmesse so that they can report here what they saw and heard in an unbiased manner.

Here are a few liturgical organ demos which are provided by an opensource organ engine which runs on the Mediastation and the upcoming organ:
(to play .ogg files on Windows you need winamp or other playes since the mediaplayer does not play them without installing additional codecs)
http://users.skynet.be/solaris/linuxaudio/downloads/564-adagio.ogg http://users.skynet.be/solaris/linuxaudio/downloads/triosonata.ogg http://users.skynet.be/solaris/linuxaudio/downloads/prelude-C.ogg

To ansver roel's question about the Lionstracs made organ (but it will be sold under the organ's company name): it's based essentially on the same technology so both instruments will provide similar features.
That way you can choose between 1 manual mediastation, 2 manual mediastation, 2 manual organ with pedals, speakers, amp builtin.


cheers,
Benno

Sbenno: you wrote
"There is certainly a revolution going on about how music is made but musicians still need hardware to interact, an alphanumerical keyboard and a mouse are
not the right interface to musicians, especially those that are not too PC-savy. They need buttons, faders, knobs, and at max a touchscreen.

On the other hand traditional MIDI keyboards that are engineered using the usual embedded design and custom chips/DSP cannot compete with the innovation
rate that the PC sector is experiencing.
The Mediastation's goal is combine the best of both worlds."

I totaly agree with that. I like the concept of sofsynts because you can get a lot of sounds from different sources. However I don’t like the fact that I have to hook a keyboard or controller to the computer to use softsynths effectively. I like the fact that the mediastation is a Keyboard with PC memory and technology.

I hate having to get a keyboard for new sounds. And when I do get the keyboard, I only like or even use 40% of the sounds.
Just give me a good hardware and the ability to intuitively load sounds quickly and I will be happy. I don’t really mind if the mediastation does not have a very good sound set. If I could build my own sound set with sounds I know I like and would use, that would be great!

I know keyboard manufactures may not like this because musicians may not have a reason to keep buying a new hardware keyboard. After all that is probably why they come out with a new keyboard ever so often with just a few sound and technology improvements. The new boards are just a tees and keep you wanting for more. But if it is not good for their current system, may be it is time for them to rethink and maybe change their concept of what should be in a keyboard.

At first, mediastation would probably be looked down on because it is a new concept of how to use keyboards with today’s PC world. But the way that they are going will catch on because sounds sounds and more sounds is what is in demand right now.

And what do these little darlings cost?

Jerry
Amsterdam

see the http://www.lionstracs.com site
the base model starts from 2990 euros equipped with an athlon 2000xp.
for example running the NI B4 on that box takes only a few % of the cpu.
I'm posting this text running the mozilla browser inside the mediastation's LCD using an on screen keyboard thanks to the builtin touchscreen.
ok posting a screenshot or you will not believe me :-)

here it is: http://www.lionstracs.com/misc/browser1.jpg

I'm not a keyboard performer, but sometimes it should be handy to check email and browse the net while you are away with your keyboard (without the need to bring with you an additional PC/Laptop).
Some examples how one could connect the keyboard to the internet: LAN cable, USB wireless card, analog modem or even through a cellphone (GPRS/UMTS).

Ah sorry I forgot we are talking about a musical keyboard .... but anyway these additional bonuses that come for free with the keyboard never hurt.

eg you could do your live gig, record it and send it as an mp3 to your wife/husband/family /friends living hundreds of miles away via email.

Or if you are really really nice we could even put icecast on the keyboard which is a live mp3 streaming server. That way you could broadcast your performance to the internet in real time without the need of additional hardware/software.


Ok shutting up for today. :-)

cheers,
Benno



[This message has been edited by sbenno (edited 03-19-2004).]