Ok, this might be a little long but I hope it stimulates some interesting conversation:

After being a bit disappointed with the NAMM offerings I've been thinking about what I will need for a keyboard workstation now and in the future, considering the availability of synthsynths, possible soft-arrangers, etc. Also I was thinking about the Open Labs NeKo keyboard as well as the LionsTraks Linux-based workstation - both of which seem to have their disadvantages; like weight, size and especially PRICE. So I hit on a concept that I almost thought about trying to take to market but I have decided that I don't have the time and resources to do that and it might be more fun just to discuss it here as a DIY project with you guys - so here it is: "The GigStation".

The GigStation is essentially a custom keyboard stand that looks like a table or elongated desk. The tabletop is a rectangle and would resemble something like an old school desk - the top could be raised and there would be shallow room under it for storage. The tabletop would be large enough to support an 88-note MIDI controller (or any preference of common MIDI controller up to 88-notes) with room for a flat panel monitor , possibly with flat panel speakers on either side. Under the desktop is a slide-out tray to hold a computer keyboard under the MIDI controller. The legs are height-adjustable and collapsable/removeable.

Now it starts getting cool: first, the heart of the GigStation is the computer keyboard, which is actually an entire computer courtesy of Cybernet (http://www.cybernetman.com). Here's a pic:



For about $1200 you can order a "zero-footprint" Elite-4 model with 2.8 Pentium 4, 200GB HD, 1GB RAM, dual monitor output, and a PCI expansion slot for a real audio/MIDI interface. That's a nice little workhorse.

Next, an $800 dual monitor from Doublesight (http://www.doublesight.com):



These were used at NAMM by Roland. You could substitute one or two touch panels if you like but the dual monitor is just so cool! Now you just need the PCI audio/MIDI interface of your choice (many will work), your choice of MIDI controllers (the new StudioLogic TMK-88 looks promising), and your optional choice of flat panel speakers. The entire system (monitor, computer, flat speakers) would be transportable WITHIN the padded hollow tabletop, except the MIDI controller which would be carried separately. Inside the tabletop is also a surge protector/power strip for all of the components, straps for holding power adapters in place, and small openings in the top and bottom of the tabletop to allow cords to get to everything. Also a small patch panel on the backside of the tabletop would allow easy plug-in for audio and MIDI.

As a do-it-yourself project I think this could be done for about $2500 not including software. Besides keyboard players this would also work for DJ's who use computer-based sampling, loops, Ableton Live etc. I think this is a better ergonomic solution to a laptop and controller also, because it puts everything where you need it. Ideally I would like to see the GigStation molded out of high-quality plastic with recesses inside especially to hold everything securely. It may also be possible to adapt an existing keyboard stand such as those from QuikLok to do something similar.

So what d'ya think?

[This message has been edited by The Pro (edited 01-26-2004).]

Brilliant Jim! Well worth discussing further. Let's see who is the first to try it !

Jim......I getting Warm & Fuzzy inside keep talking!!!!Great Idea so far...

I like it Jim.

AJ

I'm a home player only (for now), but I like that table top idea. This solves numerous problems:
1. A light over my music
2. Two additional speakers. (YST-MS50)
3. Monitor, mouse, computer keyboard
4. Make written notes, changes.
5. A temporary place to put music sheets.
Starkeeper

Whaat about putting it into a case like an SKB that folds up and is easily transportable. Would that work? Or are you thinking of something more like the old portable organs (Farfisa comes to mind) that had a closable top and legs that folded up and hid underneath.

Hmmm - I had a Farfisa exactly as you describe in my younger days... but no, that's not what I was thinking (I'm open to any idea though). The only thing I can visualize is a table built like an elongated old school desk with a lid that either raises up and down or just lifts out that covers the storage/wiring area. The GigStation overall would be a bit shallower than an SKB case (just deep enough to store the monitor was what I had in mind), but you're thinking in the right direction. Here's my guess-timated initial dimensions of the GigStation, not counting the legs: 53"x16"x4"

Actually as I was originally dreaming of a marketable product, I thought it would be cool if the lid of the tabletop opened and the dual-monitor with flat panel speakers was mounted on some sort of gimble so that it just rotated out of the recess of the tabletop and locked into upright position (adjustable angle of course), then the lid closed back into place to set the MIDI controller on and all the wires would be under the lid. That'd be slick, and it still be done with some effort; but for simplicity the shallow space under the tabletop could just be a padded storage area for the monitor, computer and legs with room left for some simple wiring harnesses, power strip, and maybe a small amplifier for the optional speakers if necessary. I really like the mounted monitor/speaker idea though, especially for live performance use.

I thought about adding something to act as a music stand but haven't hit on anything yet. However it would be nice to have a light strip at the base of the monitor to illuminate the MIDI controller, or we could add LittleLite plugs on the backside of the unit.

Yeah I was psyched over this concept over the weekend. It works well for the home studio too; and literally it's one-size-fits-all because practically all the major components are left to the user's choice. Really, we're just talking about a glorified work surface with legs and a handy storage area. Glad you guys think it's cool too - we should form our own little company to make them. Wish I knew something about vacuum-forming plastic because the design is simple and assembly would be a breeze. Kick the tires - I need more input...

[This message has been edited by The Pro (edited 01-26-2004).]

"Need more input" Number 5, from the movie "Short Circuit"

You guys are leaving me in the dust. Too technical for me and it all looks intimidating and complicating.

Boo....dont worry your not alone...I think a big part of the "NEW" wave of musical technology is foreign to many people. I also think that manufacturers have to start to think about this and make it easier for the layman to understand or the will suffer in sales big time....what good is improvements if no one understands what the hell is going on to use it?

The desk could be build with bricks.
Starkeeper

[This message has been edited by Starkeeper (edited 01-26-2004).]

what about some vinyl siding?

bricks are heavy,build on layman terms is a must,it be nice if this unit is portable, like a keaboard case with wheels ,so lets keep on dreaming,something might become of it, best regards ,BENNO

On & On we go....It's obvious Not many people are "REALLY" happy with their keyboard judging by posts alway looking for the next latest & greatest.....when will it end? I too leave myself open minded to new technology, but I find many people dont even give what they have a chance...we'l see



[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 01-26-2004).]

Speak for yourself, Donny! I'm quiet and happy trying to improve my musical skills with a simple Tyros. Still a lot to learn with it. But I will surely keep an eye on http://www.perfectbeast.com/ !

-- José.

matias..

Glad your enjoying your Tyros...personally I didnt care for it for my needs....
we're all diferent, & have diferent needs.

Good Luck

Donny: the fact is I'm not "REALLY" happy with Yamaha, Roland and Korg - all of whom I have given decades of chances, money and patience to. Even if I just limited my gripes to the Yamaha 9000 Pro, my complaint list would still be quite long. They have not only discontinued my 9000 Pro with no replacement in sight but they didn't support it very well even in it's prime. My 9000 Pro won't last forever nor will it's capabilities increase no matter how many more chances I give it - and for the first time my keyboard future is no longer limited to what keyboard companies decide to make. If I'm going to spend $2k-$3K on my next instrument and go through lots of time and effort to make it do what I need then why shouldn't I consider every alternative? That should be of interest to us all. I'm very interested also in making this concept work for everyone, no matter what your level of need is.

The search for the better instrument will never end... that's why the GigStation concept is inevitable, with every component replaceble and customizable by the user - from the processor to the memory to the display, the keyboard and the I/O interface. And since you would be using current technology even the lowest denominator of user would have a far more powerful and versatile instrument then what they could buy ready-made for the money with no limits on the sounds and applications as they come onto the market. Take the new Yamaha Vocaloids technology - no Yamaha keyboard exists or is foreseen that can make use of it but the GigStation could use it immediately, along with a few thousand other VST apps. If that doesn't interest you then ignore this thread and leave room for the geeks to have their fun.

My wife and I have been avidly discussing the GigStation and we've come up with more ideas. We are searching through trade show displays and office furniture in search of a portable computer table that closely resembles the GigStation concept. Perhaps something can be modified that already exists since the concept isn't all that radical. Many computer workstation desks would suffice but making it self-contained and portable is the trick. We also think that a convenient portable computer work surface like the GigStation may have more applications than just music.

I have always been on board for new concepts in musical technology even if I didnt embrace them fully because of not understanding them fully. I'm always looking to learn from others about new keyboards and systems if it can help me in my work as a performer. I like your idea and I hope to see it flourish and become reality. I think the key for the future is interchangability of hardware & softare & great on board navagation, & customization so the user can "make it their own" thats what I'm hoping for besides a lightweight and portable rig for stage performance.
I appreciate that your trying to create something for sure. So this here
"Semi Geek" will be lurking and absorbing if you dont mind, because I to want to be happy playing my KB....

Carry On

I'm still happy with my PA80 and Motif ES Donny. I just not so happy at the prospect of selling my PA80 and scraping up a lot of extra money that would be needed to buy a PA1x. I just don't see enough value for the dollar, for my needs, because arrangers have their limitations, and spending all of the extra money to upgrade still won't give me the other tools that I want.

I'd buy a new arranger if it gave me more real time control over style parameters, such as real time algorithim adjustments ala the karma. That's just an example, not that I want a karma per se. I know that the PA1x has updated sounds and styles, but I don't need one. The PA80 still serves me well.

What I want is more ability to customize my sounds, operating paramters, etc. It's obvious to me that software is becoming the better choice for my needs.

AJ

AJ
I think for any that want to go much beyond styles and even the limited adjustments that workstations have to offer software is going to become the more viable option. Not to mention I am with you about alot fo extra money for just a FEW new features and that's from a self avowed gearaholic.
Terry

------------------
jam on,
Terry http://imjazzed.homestead.com/Index.html

the pro, you say that you are not really happy with the yamaha ,roland and korg,,,have you thought about the GENESYS PRO,mike

I downloaded the Genesys Pro manual last night and read the entire thing. If the Pro is anywhere close to as great as the manual says it is, I'll have to have one.
And, by the way, the manual is well-written, in simple, easy-to-follow language.
DonM

No - that's not the point. This is about creating a relatively low-cost, lightweight, customizable, VSTi-based workstation suitable for live use.

Jim....I keep hearing about the latency problem regarding playing styles with softsynth... etc ....can you elaborate more?

If there are latency issues it's a software issue not harware (so it will eventually be resolved). Todays keyboards do not run on Pentium 4 at 3 gig hz.
Starkeeper

I have no latency problems with my setup at all, except with the VSC88 ( which I don't use much ), and the SYxg-50 module ( which has fair sounds at best anyway ).

My audiophile card handles the rest of my software synths at about 5 ms of latency, which is fast enough that I can't actually notice the delay whatsoever.

AJ

Incorrect. Latency issues are always related to the drivers that your hardware audio interface is compatible with. The better low-latency sound cards come with ASIO drivers. In my studio computer I use an M-Audio 1010LT card with ASIO drivers and get extremely low latency. With my laptop I use a Tascam US-122 which also has ASIO drivers and it too performs well with softsynths.

There has been some attempts to make a generic ASIO driver that would work with any WDM soundcard but that has not gotten anywhere so far. Also some MIDI controllers have an audio interface built-in with ASIO but for some unknown reason noone has made one larger than 61 keys yet.

The Cybernet computer I mention at the beginning of this thread allows (1) PCI card to be installed, so that is where I would put a good soundcard w/ASIO to make the computer work with softsynths.

Jim....without sounding lke an idiot could you or someone post a short Glossary/Definitions of all these Terms & Abreviations used in this topic such as ASIO, Drivers, WDM, Latency, etc, etc, so that we can be more familiar with what we are reading.

Thanx

[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 01-27-2004).]

My unofficial but pretty close definitions:

ASIO: Audio Stream In/Out - a driver format invented by Steinberg that bypasses the computer processor, allowing low-latency.
WDM: Windows Driver Model - a common Windows driver standard.
Latency: the delay between triggering a note and hearing it. Less than 8ms is desireable.

thanx Jim.....now were startin to understand the lingo..