Here you go, another one to listen to and comment on.

I've now edited this post to change from rapidshare which seems to be pathetic to 4shared.
http://www.4shared.com/dir/688993/1aa6c008/sharing.html

[This message has been edited by Craig_UK (edited 09-14-2006).]

Bloody hell! Is that just you in arranger mode, Craig? No overdubs and no extra musicians (like a guitarist??).......?

If so, that is the most authentic piece of acoustic guitar emulation I have ever heard. Kudos, m8! Plus it's a really nice tune - I didn't recognize it, is it yours?

'Fess up, how did you make it?!?

beautifully done !!! ....

The Secret ... Craig is a guitar player ....
t.

How do I download the song. I am not a member.

zuki

Holy Cow! Craig this is the best guitar rendition I've heard, Man Its georgous, You are making history with this one. Nigel download a bunch of towell's the drool is going to mess up your site. Enormous feeling, sound is stupendous, skill and expertise is overflowing......I think I better learn a bit about multipads/custom voices and start practicing scales... wow.....

Hope you can share some of the methods used.

Standing ovation........pose

Zuki: I think just double click on the site above and it should open up for you. scroll down and L click free. Scroll down and watch the loading counter when 0 a code box will show, fill in the code shown and L click download (choose play or save)..pose

Craig, Your keyboard instrumental rendition of "Saltwater" sounds, in ONE word: amazing, riveling Julian Lennon's 1991 original. As usual, your performance has a lot of playing expression. Though I miss the prophetic lyrics of this song, your guitar playing emulation more than compensates, with it's hearfelt beauty. Craig, perhaps you can share with us how your played & produced this beautifully executed performance.

Ok, for those not familiar with the Julian Lennon version & lyrics:

Saltwater Music Clip sung by Julian Lennon. Amazing how much his father John Lennon (Beatles) comes thru (with message) on this song.

Saltwater, by Julian Lennon
We are a rock revolving
Around a golden sun
We are a billion children rolled into one
So when I hear about the hole in the sky
Saltwater wells in my eyes
We climb the highest mountain
We'll make the desert bloom
We're so ingenious we can walk the moon
But when I hear of how the forest have died
Saltwater wells in my eyes
Bridge:
I have lived for love
But now that's not enough
For the world I love is dying And now I'm crying
And time is not a friend (no friend of mine)
As friends we're out of time
And it's slowly passing by ....right before our eyes
We light the deepest ocean
Send photographs of Mars
We're so enchanted my how clever we are
Why should one baby feel so hungry she cries
Saltwater wells in my eyes
Bridge
We are a rock revolving
Around a golden sun
We are a billion children rolled into one
What will I think of me the day that I die
Saltwater wells in my eyes
Saltwater wells in my eyes

Scott

What can be said about that song performance !!! If that was created on an arranger keyboard then you need to contact the manaufacturer and sell the demo to them because that has got to be the best demo i have heard on this site and by it self would sell very very many arranger units.....thats if it was done on an arranger keyboard in the usual manner that an arranger is played. Even if it wasnt my statement still stands that this is the best demo i have heard on the synthzone to date. Very very good job Craig. You should feel very proud of the work you have done. Your other demos were good but thi one.....its in a whole diffrent class.

Amazing Craig.....Can almost "feel" the guitarist's fingers! How was it done?

Respect

Vic

Craig,

Its awesome !! goes without saying!

But i have a few questions...
Is that lead guitar a third party WAV Sample or is it a standard panel Sound from the T2 heavily tweaked??

How did u do the loooong pitch slides on some of those notes?? using the pitch wheel or has it been edited after recording live?

Thanks Nick

Craig: Nicely polished song. Very live sounding.

1. Same as everyone else, please provide details on how you created this. Arrange/Styles/Midi Files/Dubbed live/Soft Synths/Post Processes/etc.

2. I recommend you look at putfile.com for uploading. It doesn't but the listener through all the steps that the service you used does.

Lounge - thanks for the help, able to get on and take a listen to a nice sounding piece.

Me too: how was the song done?

zuki

Craig, great work. Thanks for sharing.
DonM

Hi there, thanks for the comments.

The style you hear was created by myself using Pro Tools as I couldn't find an internal style to fit to this song.
The style was made in the traditional way by playing the bass parts in (TVN sounds on T2), snare, hi-hat, cymbals all one at a time, bars looped etc as anyone would make a pattern. It was then all saved as a WAV file and loaded back into the T2 so I then had my style for the entire song just leaving the actual song to play.

The acoustic guitar is a very large sampled sound loaded into the T2 as a custom TVN then edited further to bring up the fret slide noises and a little bit more reverb(Too large for live use due to a long loading time but ideal for studio/home recording use).

There are 2 takes in total. 1st take was playing the main song missing out the tricky parts. 2nd take was playing in the diminished chord runs and the run down at the end.

The pitch bend wheel was used along with velocity triggering for the pitch.
I can pitch bend one note then add another note in half way through the bend if needed, but whilst my pitch bend wheel is up pressing harder on the keys actually raises the notes up further, so doing all of this quickly creates the slide effect.

I also had 3 different registrations set up with different amounts of bend on each of them so I could swap.

I think if this was done using an arranger style it would be pretty much impossible fighting with the pitch bend and playing chords at the same time. Doing the style beforehand free'd up my left hand so I could get to the pitch wheel and reg changes far easier.

Hi Graig,
Just had to post on this one,best guitar perfomance on an arranger that I have heard,Excellent work,lets have more please,
Gilbert.

Sounds like a record...
and that is a compliment.

Sounds great Craig!

------------------
http://www.myspace.com/mychrisvalenti

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=235791

Three suggestions.

1. Try to find something other than Rapidshare. I had to download twice and always dread seeing Rapidshare.

2. In the future, consider putting the song title in your post (EDIT: *AND* in the subject/title) so people can find this thread in a search in the future.

3. Do another song!

This is amazing, Craig. Best arranger recording I've ever heard. I would actually play this song for enjoyment just because it's gorgeous.

Thanks to Scott for posting what it is, I was not familiar with this song and I am a Beatles nut and big Lennon fan. This is a great song and I love the lyric as well. The song sounds amazingly Beatlish.

------------------
Bill
Yamaha PSR2000

[This message has been edited by SemiLiveMusic (edited 09-13-2006).]

I'll stick with something like 4shared in the future. I thought rapidshare was popular with other people posting stuff to it, I didn't realise it was a pain in the butt to get stuff off it

I missed the title out on purpose as I wanted to see if anyone actually knew the song first before I mentioned what it was called (I did tell Scott on Skype lol).
If I had put 'Saltwater' I was thinking some SZ users may have thought never heard of that and would have passed the post by.

Thanks everyone, guess I'm going to have to put my thinking cap on for a follow up song.

Do you play the guitar, Craig? Your ear seems exceptionally well tuned to guitaristic voicing and idioms......

In a way, I'm glad you didn't do this one in arranger mode for two reasons - firstly, I've been racking my brain trying to figure out how you could do those bends and still play the chords!!

And secondly, I am glad you will admit that there are things that you just can't do in arranger mode. The whole 'arranger mode vs. SMFs' debate always seems to favor players who claim they do EVERYTHING in arranger mode, but here is a perfect example of a brilliant track that cannot be played in arranger mode, but could, if you set it up right, be gotten VERY close using an SMF for the backing and using your left hand a lot more for the bender.

The track still uses the arranger mode, to create the backing, but then demands both hands to play well. A perfect example of the fact that BOTH types of modes have their uses. Slavishly, stubbornly staying with arranger mode ONLY, only serves to limit what you can play, something we should all try to avoid.

Kudos, again to Craig - not only for the song, but also the willingness to do music in whatever mode best works..........

Hi Diki, not sure if it's me reading your last post wrong at all, but here goes.

The song does not use any of the arranger mode at all m8 and the style is NOT a SMF, neither does it use any midi data in any way.

With Pro Tools I can link my T2 to the PC. Sampled sounds on the PC can be loaded and I can trigger them with the T2 which can then be used to create the style. Fair enough it is midi data that is being punched in since it is recording the notes I am playing, but it is also recording audio which is why I use this.

The bass is a 5mb sampled TVN loaded into the T2. I then play this into Pro Tools after I've created my drum patterns/loops.
It is not saved as a SMF and loaded back into the T2, it is saved as an audio file (WAV) then imported back into the T2 that way, so no midi file used by me as I don't believe in them in the way that some singers would use them if you follow my drift.

Keep it as live as possible, no SMF/MP3 here

Sorry, Craig, I was not in any way saying that using an SMF was how you did it..... I think I understood from your post how you did it, in your studio.

But what I was trying to point out was, if you wished to perform this tune live, as well as you could, you would HAVE to use an SMF to allow you to do the bends and other two-handed tricks that would prevent the guitar sounding that good if played with just one hand.....

I guess my main point was, depending on the demands of the tune or how you would prefer to perform it, sometimes SMFs are the only way to go, in a live situation. I am as big a fan of arranger mode as anyone when it suits how I wish to play, but ever since the removal of the Chord Sequencer feature, anything that significantly uses pitch bend or complicated two-hand pyrotechnics has to use an SMF to allow me to do this. There is no right and wrong way to do anything........

Your Pro-Tools method is yet another valid way to do things, but is anything other than straight, live arranger mode. But it does the job better than any other way, for you, and for this particular tune. I applaud anyone that is capable of understanding that 'different strokes for different folks' is the way to go, and slavish adherence to only one form of performing limits us in our playing options.

So, kudos once again, can't wait to hear more of this stuff! And BTW, you still haven't said if you play the guitar.......

Craig.....I can only use one word to describe your performance on this song, I stole it from the British....."BRILLANT" keep them coming.....
TR

Sorry Diki missed that the first time.

I have tried the guitar and had lessons for about a year, but I couldn't get my fingers around half of the strings so I certainly can't play any solo stuff on one.

I have worked with guitarists in bands and the studio since I was 14 so almost 22 years and I do have a good ear when it comes to picking out notes, chords and phrasing.

I'm curious as to how long it took you to put all that together, it's pretty close to broadcast quality!

Also, can you let us know which particular sample sets you got the custom sounds from?

Hi Craig:
I just got home from my 3 jobs, and I tried to download the song, to my luck, already had reached the limit.....so, I guess, I will ask Tapas (because he lives near), to put it into a flash drive and let me hear your song, for the comments, I already know is a SMASH HIT!....Keep posting more....I promise to be alert and download it as soon is possible.

Hi mdorantes I've now changed to
http://www.4shared.com/dir/688993/1aa6c008/sharing.html

You should have more luck with that site.

Hi Diki again, it took about 4 days on and off at a guess to do it all. The hardest part was doing the style from scratch.
The guitar is not from any set you can buy, it's from a mates personal collection.

Craig Great work.

Guitars are fantastic. I miss only finally mixing with top RMS.

Performance is really good. Keep on with your work.

I keep getting the following message when I try to listen.

"The file is suspected of illegal or copyrighted content Please contact link publisher....."

This only happens on the "Saltwater" title. The other three play fine. ????

Anyone else have this problem?

chas

I think it's because I had uploaded it on 4shared previously (the full 38mb WAV version), then I erased it off because of it's size and put it the compressed version onto rapidshare, then I uploaded the same name again back to 4shared because people were having problems with Rapidshare.
I have renamed the file to Craig 5 and it now works fine. It seems that once a file name has gone onto 4shared you can't use that name again.

[This message has been edited by Craig_UK (edited 09-14-2006).]

Hi Craig,

Exceptional!

One of the finest guitar emulations I have ever heard.

You are an excellent player!

Ian the Impressed

------------------
Remember to leave good news alone.

Brilliant Craig - It is difficult to believe this was just a keyboard - It is gobsmacking as we say on our side of the pond.

Well done and more of the same please....

Regards - KF

[This message has been edited by KFingers (edited 09-14-2006).]

I don't find a file there specifically called saltwater. I find one that sounds like it called Craig5.wma or something like that. If that is the song you are all listening to, that's a real guitar. The recording has a lot of hiss, reminds me of something that was ripped from a cassette. Hopefully I'm listening to the wrong file.

Craig 5 is the song FAEbGBD.

A real guitar lmao a real acoustic sounds far better.

As for the hiss, no one else has noticed any and there is no hiss whatsover on the recording, so maybe it's to do with what you are playing the song back on?

Thanks for your input anyway.

I'm disappointed that you're persisting with this ruse.

First of all, that guitarist is doing 5 fret slides, and not pitchbend slides either, because it is not a glissando, it is half step increments which would be done on the frets. Secondly, if you aren't a guitarist you'd have no idea when to use the open strings and when to use fretted notes, but this song is completely authentic in that regard. This would require a computer program of sorts that would annalize the data put into it and render phrasing later.
Also, the bass is doing similar things.
Anyone who would program a sample library that extensive, and also make it tailored to work inside the Tyros II with that level of proficiency would definitely make it a commercial multisample set that could be purchased. I absolutely 100% don't accept this; not for a second.

Hello Rory, you have an e-mail

Gotta confess, this comes close to the definition of a personal attack, accusing a member of lying about how he made a track after several detailed descriptions of how it was done........

Hope you are hungry, there's some crow in the oven!

Nope. called it a ruse. not a lie. Big difference. And anyway, I'm not above eating a bit of crow if I'm proven wrong. I asked Craig to send me the original guitar tracks. He did it in protools. I want to be able to hear these guitars without the rest of the arrangement and see if I can tell then that they are samples. I have no idea if I'll get those tracks or not. But, the link to download the song is now gone. If I'm wrong I'm wrong. But I used the word ruse for a reason. Not prepared to call it a lie, simply a ruse that I as yet am unconvinced it isn't. That's OK isn't it?

Only if it IS a ruse ... then it would be ok that you said it... but not ok that it is a ruse (IF it is) ... too much praise and time spent IF it IS a ruse ....
t.

Websters Dictionary:
Ruse (noun): A deceptive maneuver (especially to avoid capture).

Ok folks. I want to come forward to vouche for Craig's song production authenticity, and that it was 100% done by him the way he clearly described the process earlier in this thread:

"The song does not use any of the arranger mode at all m8 and the style is NOT a SMF, neither does it use any midi data in any way.

With Pro Tools I can link my T2 to the PC. Sampled sounds on the PC can be loaded and I can trigger them with the T2 which can then be used to create the style. Fair enough it is midi data that is being punched in since it is recording the notes I am playing, but it is also recording audio which is why I use this.

The bass is a 5mb sampled TVN loaded into the T2. I then play this into Pro Tools after I've created my drum patterns/loops.
It is not saved as a SMF and loaded back into the T2, it is saved as an audio file (WAV) then imported back into the T2 that way, so no midi file used by me as I don't believe in them in the way that some singers would use them if you follow my drift.

Keep it as live as possible, no SMF/MP3 here. "

Because Craig and I speak with each other regularly on Skype, I've witnessed him playing his Tyros2 live and can assure you that his keyboard 'guitar emulation' skills are capable of what you heard on this song. No lie, no ruse, only admiration for Craig's keyboard & music skills, at least as far as I'm concerned.

Scott

Then all I can say is that I'm listening to the wrong recording. along with all the technical guitar reasons I mentioned above, I had also mentioned that it sounded like it was taken from a cassette tape because of the hiss. Craig said there was absolutely no hiss in the recording.

Here is an example. At the very end of the song. I did not run this file through any outboard gear of any kind, all I did was compress it heavily from withing my computer to accentuate this noise. It definitely sounds like cassette tape noise to me, doesn't it? www.roryhoffman.com/noise.mp3
`So one thing is certain, there is substantial hiss in the recording, which Craig garanteed there was not.

secondly, play that song, or my sound clip, against your keyboard. It is not in tune. So, this was obviously not recorded at 440 hz, which virtually all recordings are made at now. Which is another reason I'd guess it came from a tape, because tape players are not always 100% reliable that the tape is spinning at the correct speed.

Both of these elements, combined with the technical musicianship things I mentioned, leaves me with only 2 conclusions. Either I'm totally losing it and I should quit the music business, or I'm listening to a different file than you all are.

And with that, I'll go away and never make another post on this thread again. I don't think being skeptical is illegal, and I'm sorry to admit, but I am skeptical.

Hi Rory, it was my understanding given to me by Craig that the guitar lick ending was a pre-recorded (by him) WAV sequence created earlier in ProTools, then imported as a wav file into the T2 and triggered live via Multipad. I suspect whatever hiss heard at the very end may be an artifact of the recorded wav file, and not remotely as noticeable as heard after you amplified it thru heavy compression. No noise is detected (at least by me) in any other part of song, especially having the opportunity to possess the original uncompressed WAV file. - Scott

Please "don't do that". Rory, your expertise & opinions (including honest skepticism) are respected by many (including myself) here. On the same account, I also attest to Craig_UK's honesty in his explanation how he produced this song. - Scott

FAEbGBD

I have spent a lifetime with a guitar in my hands (65 years playing) and this is not the real thing my friend, but its the closest i've ever heard from a keyboard. I also know Craig and can vouche that he is very talented on keys and has many years of experience in computer/software skills. Also I will say that this man would never misrepresent what he created,not even a reason for that. Maybe if you havn't heard this on a clear copy your ears may have been deceived. Also most of us really are not sure just how he achieved this, since what he accomplished is something very clever and ground breaking in its scope.
Give a fellow brother the benefit of your doubt since he has a better view of whats taking place, If I'm wrong maybe we could do lunch, I would need salt and pepper if it's crow...........Pose

Hi

I have just downloadet the song from BearShare. It is not Craig but Tommy Emanuel & Chet Atkins playing. Shame on you Craig.
You can download it here at [url=Http://www.solomusikeren.dk/Saltwater.mp3][url=Http://www.solomusikeren.dk/Saltwater.mp3][url=Http://www.solomusikeren.dk/Saltwater.mp3]Http://www.solomusikeren.dk/Saltwater.mp3[/url][/url][/url]

Regards Niels

[This message has been edited by nielshs (edited 09-14-2006).]

Diki it apears that you are right.... I am really upset by this, not just because it appears that craig has decieved us but also that for some reason he felt that he needed to. I am an amateur musician and have held back from posting any of my music on my PAX on the zone because of the critiscing and back biting spirit that has emerged on the zone . Something seriuosly wrong has happened to this forum and i cant tell you how dissapointed the recent months squabbling and now this apparent trechery has made me feel. And its not the first time a member has posted material on the zone that they claimed authorship to and it turned out that it was not theirs.

Nigel you have a real problem on your hands and i dont know how you are going to sort this one out.

As for me, I have had a belly full. I am going to take a vacation from the Zone. Good luck everyone.

Actually, I was wrong, and actually believed Craig. Shame on me. It's hard to imagine anyone behaving as crass and infantile as this being able to keep any kind of playing job....... Oh, that's right, he admits to being semi-pro. Probably got a gig at his granny's old folks home where he mimes to MP3's. 'Keepin' it real.......' ROLFMAO

I have already stated in another thread that if Craig is not banned permanently for this outrage, I will never visit this site again.

If the moderators don't come down on this childish behavior like a ton of bricks, what confidence can anyone have they are not wasting their time coming here......?

And if Craig just thinks this is a joke, it's about as funny as a car bomb is religious.......

Was it Squeak, a couple months ago, who was talking about we're going to get so used to how our keyboards sound that when we hear the real thing we will say it sounds wrong? I'm paraphrasing, but that was brought up here not too awfully long ago. Makes this "mine is better than yours" crap all the more rediculous, because a percentage of the pros here don't think Chet and Tommy are even good enough sounds for real guitars.

After listening to both songs, well, yes they are the same thing.

Nielshs,
you should be an investigator. LOL. Thank you for finding out.

Members of the Zone,
please, read Rory's posts and take a look on what is the right way, IMHO, to express criticism, comments, and opinions on someone's work. The right way. The civilised way. The way we all should follow.

Rory,
congratulations for pointing out your thoughts, congratulations for the way you pointed them out, congratulations for getting ready to take the blame for a supposed error of judgement when others thought otherwise. Stick around and don't leave the forum. You are invaluable.
Theodore

P.S.
Please, everyone, leave Nigel to decide what he is going to do and what he is not going to do.

This forum is a comfortable bus, it travels us around in the wonderful world of music AND knowledge, but it belongs to Nigel, and Nigel is the only one here with a driver's licence. We are only the passengers. If someone near you is farting, feel free to change your seat. If you don't like the way Nigel drives, press the button, wait for the bus to stop, and get off. That is my opinion, thank you very much. I am not talking about anyone in particular.

hmmmm ... I'm just going to let this thread roll on for a while for people to have their say.

Craig do you have a response to this strange situation???

Just hope Craig posted the wrong (original) song in stead of his created piece

If this is the case, please put yours on www.yousendit.com Craig. (very easy to access)
Proving you made it is simple : Put both seperate takes for sharing.

After critiqueing (sp) one of Craig's earlier songs (with Squeak observing the same problems), I was amazed at his being able to correct this problem so completely in this tune. Also, I don't know about you guys but I can tell from a guys playing style if he is capable of playing the tune I'm listening to. I didn't comment because of all the accolades being heaped upon Craig. Despite the attaboys from other members, I thought his earlier offerings were amatuerish and had rhythm/timing problems. Although I tried to state this as constructively as possible, Craig's response was to "pull" the song. I guess he decided to put something up that no one could critique badly.

I doubt if anyone else will try that as long as nielshs is on the job. I'm guessing the fact that it was Craig may have given him extra motivation .

chas

The instrumental versions played by Chet Atkins and Tommy Emanuel (who I think may be the guitarist in No Doubt as I know he has done a recording of this song) do not sound the same as mine. The guitar is far different for a start and the notes although very close on mine are not identicle. I have listened to both of these since I have had them ages and I have also played this song since Julian Lennon released it in 1991.

Believe what you want guys, I do not pull the wool over anyones eyes and never have.
Do you honestly think I would be dumb enough to post someone elses works on here. Anyone with a slight bit of common sense can search Google, newsgroups etc to get any song ever recorded. Compressing someone elses work and posting would take 5 minutes not 4 bloody days as this took me to do!

I've been a pro musician since leaving school to the age of 30, it's only the last 5 years I've decided to be semi pro as I like my daytime job too much to give up.
So thank you for the pathetic comments Diki, just when I thought you were starting to talk some sense on here you start off again.

It seems like guitarists can't face the fact that a keyboard player can come close to emulating an acoustic with the help of decent sample and some Pro Tools wizardry.
If I play over the top of the WAV still in my T2 it is in key and not at all out of key



[This message has been edited by Nigel (edited 09-15-2006).]

Hi Craig

I have made an comparison of the 2 files in Wavelab. They are 100% identical and you know that. I feel sorry for you.

Have a listen

1. Tommy Emanuel & Chet Atkins http://www.solomusikeren.dk/Saltwater.mp3
2. Craig_MrT2 http://www.solomusikeren.dk/Craig_5.mp3

Regards Niels




[This message has been edited by nielshs (edited 09-15-2006).]

Unfortunately, I am at work and can't have my say.

I hope Nigel won't close this tread until I get home and listen to these recording. Please leave it open for another two hours.

Regards,
George

Nielshs Craig_UK's recording was a WMA file and not a MP3, so why are you posting a MP3 for comparison instead of the original WMA he posted on 4shared?

I have listened to the WMA and the MP3 of the Chet Atkins one and they are not identicle at all. There are quite a few differences if you dig deep into the audio.

Here is the wma
http://www.solomusikeren.dk/Craig_5.wma

And again, there is NO difference at all. I have analysed the 2 recordings note by note.

Regards
Niels

Niels is right ! Not one single mismatch.

Exerpt from a personal email Craig sent me.
I'm pulling all of my songs off 4shared and when I have my album out which will be hopefully copyrighted, we'll see what the buyers think.

If this song gets on his album, do you think he will face any copyright issues? This question directed at those who say his version is still quite different from Tommy's and Chet's, and who can personally vouch for his ability to do what we've heard here. Anybody who believes that now chooses to be blind; or deaf maybe. Sorry Trident if this isn't quite as diplomatic as before.

.... all I can say is "WOW" ...

t.

.... I think we were better off when we were arguing about who's keyboard sounded better ...
t.

Craig, the very least I can say is that if I were you I would not dare to put this rendition on my CD.

George

WOW! I've now become a lurker here, but this I GOTTA CHIME IN! Holy Mary Mother of Crap! Craig-Shame, Shame, Shame my friend.

This only strengthens my point I made (that another member pointed out) about where we're going with "keyboard sounds".

I for one when I heard this was SHOCKED! at how well the guitar part was arranged. I honestly was quite skeptical about it in the beginning, and almost sent Craig an email. As Cgiles pointed out I quicky picked up on the timing or rhythm issues with Craig's previous posts demostrating guitar work. After hearing this I was dumbfounded--because this post was a complete 180 degree turn-around. Suddently Craig mastered all these guitar techiques in a matter of days.

Craig, I as a guitarists will NEVER fear what a keyboard can do--and I'm sure I speak for many guitar players too. However, I'm also a keyboardists and a drummer. I have much respect for keyboard players, and where the technology has brought us to, but NO keyboard will ever replace what we can do on the real thing.

SHAME SHAME SHAME!

Squeak



[This message has been edited by squeak_D (edited 09-15-2006).]

Well Guys I guess it's crow for me, I listened to both the orig and the posted, this time I used ear phones! They are Identical in my opinion right down to hearing 3 fingers pulling the stings impossible to duplicate even on another guitar.

I've been had, and it ticks me off to have the friendship and trust of a friend betrayed.

I guess I just wanted the ty2 to be that good that I extended my hopes to far.

Appreciate the education I received, but I try to give my friends every possible chance to do the right thing.

Just talked to craig,on skype in conference with Scott and Nick myself. And he sticks to his guns that its him and swears the 2 does not match.

So common sense is taking over and thinking of what has transpired, and his insistance of inocense here, I have to go with my gut, and bow to the good ears and persistance for the truth of fellow Zoner's (thanks guys)

(post of anothers work,as his own) Should be banned unless he can prove otherwise.
Which I don't think he can.......

Pass the Crow...........pose

Wow...this is incredible. I've just listened to both renditions of this song. There is NO way this is Craig playing these guitars on a keyboard. NO WAY! The articulations are distinctly Chet Atkins.

He may have played back Chet's song whilst he played along with an arranger, but Chet's original work can clearly be heard - every nuance, string bend, pick, twang, and double-string pick it's all there. You cannot reproduce that with a keyboard.

Craig, you have the burden of proof in this case, but I agree with nielshs on this one.

This is what tipped me off, but I still didn't say anyting. Not many here actually work with samples, but listen to this song again, does anyone here have any idea how HUGE, and I mean freakin HUGE this guitar sample would have to be to capture all those nuances heard?

In my styles of music I work with samples, and I'm telling you it would have taken a GREAT deal of skill and time to create this Guitar Sample that Craig claims as his own. Seriously does anyone have any idea the amount of skill it would also take to actually then "play" this sound manually???? Just imagine the number of velocity curves that would need to be programmed and perfected for this sound. Software Technology is getting us closer, but I'm sorry--T2 sampling technology isn't there yet.

OK I'm done--back to lurking now Rock on Friends, and feel free to drop me an email.

Squeak



[This message has been edited by squeak_D (edited 09-15-2006).]

All I can say now is, Craig....... GET SOME HELP!

Whatever dosage you are on, either halve it or double it, whatever you are taking right now isn't helping.

Perhaps you've been watching Tony Blair and George Bush - when caught out in a bald faced lie, just keep denying it...... and attack the people who call you out.

Seriously, talk to a professional........

I ECHO Pose's sentiments. More than the deception itself, I now feel 'personally' betrayed by Craig, whom I had respected (till now) as an honest & trustworthy friend on Skype. This is indeed a very sad day for me for me personally. Thank you fellow Synthzoners for helping me see the truth.

Scott

Hi Scoot and all SZ members

I feel sorry for Graig. I don't think he is a bad person but he has some sort of problem. I don't thing he should be banned from SZ, but we all should give him a second change.

Regards
Niels

I believe the Bible says "Hate the sin, Love the sinner" ... but man, to keep this going like this certainly indicates a much bigger problem ...
t.

I disagree, respectfully of course. HE had his second chance. The skype conference with Scott and Pose to make it right was his second chance, but if he's sticking to his guns belligerently, then why would a second chance be any different? Repentance for first chance betrayal comes first, then second chances can be considered. It's not my forum to decide what happens, I'm speaking solely as to the definition of second chance and the requirements for receiving one in my personal opinion. I was content to call it a ruse; but to flatly deny everything after being called out several times, goes beyond that.

I feel that Craig should be given the opportunity to defend himself against the charges and given the chance to clear himself......I'm no expert on guitar sounds or mixing music with the software that is out there today nor am I a keyboard maven so I can't say for sure what happened but am willing to give Craig the benefit of the doubt to let him clear himself....maybe I'm too trusting, however, I'm leaving an open mind to all of this and hope that he will do
right and clear himself....Just My Opinion.
TR

I am sorry, but I don't feel as generous as you Niels. Having run up against Craig's insulting manner, and obvious superiority complex several times in the past, I feel it is time to stop this behavior once and for all. This behavior would not be tolerated at most professional forums, and just because this site is for all arranger players doesn't mean you can come here and make a mockery of it.

But, as stated, it IS Nigel's bus we are riding on. He gets to choose who rides, and who walks. But if Craig isn't thrown off the bus for this insult to the forum, the moderator and ALL the members, what does this say about any commitment to decent behavior?

If MY kids were on a bus that the driver refused to control, I would be taking them off the bus myself. I just hope this doesn't get out of hand.......


Or........ OTOH, I've got some new mp3s of my arranger playing. I sound EXACTLY like Emerson, Lake and Palmer on one tune, and you should hear how I can make my G70 sound EXACTLY like Jimmy Smith..........

After very careful listening to the guitar techniques in both recordings, in my mind they are identical. I even picked out very distinctive playing nuances and sure enough they matched in both versions. As a guitar player myself I find it impossible to believe anyone could so accurately copy Chet Atkins version of the song on a keyboard. And if it was a accurate note for note copy of these 2 guitarists I would certainly mention that I had copied their version when I posted the track for listening because I'd be so proud of the undertaking.

There really is nothing more to be said here.