Never too early to get started on the next Casio.I'll start with a few stems...

Since the soundset is vastly improved for the WK3700(probably in response to Rolands EXR's) I think Casio should take a giant leap forward and give us a 16 track on board sequencer w/ 64 poly.EXR's had a 16/64 too,but NO MIXER!!!..which was a very bad idea,which is probably why Roland released updated versions of these 'boards
(or at least,one would *hope*)

Pattern-based recording should make a return also,with the ability to string patterns into songs.

Stereo outs,no matter the model number.If Casio needs to save us money,get rid of the floppy and just stick with SM,SD or CF. One Gig capacity card,as long as we're at it..
All of that lovely ZPI sound going through a mono out is just criminal.

MIDI In/Out AND Thru-This was on the CTK-670 and that 'board is 15 years old!

Tempo sense feature-Without benefit of a backing rhythm,you play your song and the 'board senses the tempo and gives you a MM reading so you can dial it in.A real time saver!

Make one of the rhythm settings just a plain old click beat.This too was on the CTK-670.

Global Reverb and Compression-Use each alone or together-5 types each.

40,000 note capacity(Like the Old MZ2000)

I don't want much,I guess ha-ha



your turn...



[This message has been edited by casiobot (edited 10-01-2005).]

On the new WK3200 and WK3700 Casio made one of the user styles a plain clickbeat
George Kaye
Kaye's Music Scene
Reseda, California

Casiobot,
I too would love to see some of these changes like they had on the MZ-2000. You have to keep in mind though that the MZ-2000 was a VERY expensive keyboard in the Casio line up.

People weren't use to seeing a Casio that cost over $1,000. They were know for that affordable keyboard.

If Casio added 16 tracks, 40, notes, style recording, (pattern chaining--which I don't know of any arranger having this feature because you find it on synths), and more poly, Casio would have to without a doubt jack the price (considerably).

They added the new features to the current models (even though not huge), and didn't jack prices. I think that alone is a statement for them.

Maybe they could make more of a step up between model. Example say release a WK-3300 that has some slight improvements over the 3200, and release a 3800 that has HUGE changes, such as 16 tracks, ect. However I don't see them doing this. If you add a 16 track 40,000 note sequencer, style recording with pattern chaining, 64 note poly, you almost have the MZ-2000 (minus the full draw bars and voice editing).

Squeak

[This message has been edited by squeak_D (edited 10-02-2005).]

Another thing that costs money is this "split model" nonsense.Why release two versions of the practical same thing when thing 2 is slightly higher because of a floppy drive?Drop the floppy,stick with SM SD or CF and put all of your energy into *one* really excellent keyboard.

I don't think the price point would go sky-high with the inclusion of a 16 track sequencer,but maybe it would be a good idea
to start small and ask for a 12 track sequencer instead.That would double the capacity as it stands now and,maybe,it would be all that anyone needsfor a long time to come.

The fact remains though that the Casio sound set is making rapid improvements and it should have a sequencer to match.Would I be wrong in stating that the ZPI technology is head and shoulders above the MZ2000?Probably not.And,increasingly when Keyboard prices in the pro range are all but ridiculous,Casio has provided a real alternative.

How about making a WK Rack?!?!?!?!?!? Include all of the features of the WK-3700, but without the floppy, and I would bet they could sell a ton of them for the same price that the WK-3700 is selling for (about $300-400). But I would think they could do it for less due to the fact that there are NO speakers and NO keys...how much would it really cost? How many would by it for say $249? The organ sims along are worth that to me.

Casiobot,

The ZPI sound in the new WK-3700 is what I believe to be improved over the MZ2000. The ZPI sound system was part of the MZ2000 as I recall. I owned an MZ2000 for awhile and I really have to give the WK-3700 tones the edge.

Yes, it would be nice to have a larger sequencer however, this board hooks so easily to my computer and cakewalk that it is not an issue for me.

I have my WK-3500 and I think I am going to sell it. I am not using it at all now. Anyone interested please email me. As always, it is in excellent condition like new and I have all the original packaging.

Thanks!

-Linda

Linda,

Does the 3700 really sound THAT much better than the 3500? Is it just a few of the sounds that are better or have they all been upgraded? Has anyone posted a review on the web yet?

Thanks,
Ken

I think it's a bit early for a standard review as of yet.You can take a listen here:
http://www.casio-europe.com/euro/emi/wk3700/sound/

...and decide for yourself....

I don't know whether these are improved standard tones or totally new tones,but the piano,sax and guitar have my vote..

those sound demos are very nice... if that's the standard quality for all the advanced tones (ie most if not all of the waveforms have been updated) then it's going to be worth it for me to sell my wk3000 and upgrade to a wk3200. If it's just a few select tones that have been replaced then i'll wait. I love my wk3000 btw.

In my naive opinion, a rack version is not going to sell well, if at all.
Considering that Casio's target market (and as a result to that, Casio's reputation) is leaning heavily into home players and beginners, they won't buy it.
Home players need "instant gratification" things. Plug and play, touch a finger or two in the left side of the keyboard and "wow, it's a Dm accompaniment, lets play some notew on the right side now".
Racks need setup, separate midi controllers, midi cables lying around, a more elaborate stand, 3 wall outlets (rack, speakers, contoller) or a T electrical adapter etc.

Imagine getting a nephew of yours a present like that:

"Here boy, is the rack unit, it is small and covered in buttons, it connects to the master keyboard via midi cables, and you can divide it into zones, and your mother is going to freak out seeing all those cables slithering on the floor, and by the way go fetch your speakers so we can hear what's going on".

True, it would be good to be able to choose a decent controller or add some new sounds to your existing setup without having to buy a new keyboard measuring three feet across, but people needing these are very few, I believe.

[This message has been edited by trident (edited 10-05-2005).]

casio has now posted the WK3200/3700 manuals on their japanese web site: http://ftp.casio.co.jp/pub/world_manual/emi/en/wk_3200_3700/wk_3200_3700_e.pdf

it looks to me like casio has kept most of the old sounds and added or replaced a few with "more advanced" tones. The acustic drum sounds have also been updated. As well as about 20 more arrangement patterns.

all in all i'm not sure if this is enough to get me to upgrade. guess i'll have to make a trip down to the local gear shop to find out. =)

I think that would be "old sounds" by name only,but I would like to think that those "old sounds" have been improved for the 3700.
One thing that I noticed about the 3500's timpani over the timpani in my venerated WK-1350,is that it was rounder and "plummier".The timpani in the 1350,though usable(and ultimately,I got used to it) sounded more like a wet paper bag.
What I'm getting at is,it might have the "same old patch name" but hopefully,the ZPI sound has been improved yet once again over the 3500.

kdistefano,

Yes, the WK3700 sounds better than the WK3500. I have them side by side and have played most of the tones on each just to check. Big differences are that the WK-3700 sounds so much fuller. The sax alone is so much much better than the WK-3500 as is the piano tones. The organ sounds are much fuller sounding. If they were not better, I would have sent the WK-3700 back already ha-ha. I believe George Kaye mentioned this improved sound quality in a previous thread about the new board. Even though the names of some tones are the same on both boards the sound is better on the WK-3700. It appears they have been re-worked but there is a significant difference in my opinion.

-Linda

Casio will never reach the professional arranger player until it allows for the use of "on bass" or "slash" chords while in split keyboard.The fingering mode is far too limiting.Beginner and amateur players would benefit from this feature,too.
Ian

Linda,

Thanks for the info! Well I'll be sure to check it out for myself this weekend. If it's an overall sound upgrade like you said (and not just a few new 'advanced' tones) i'll probably be interested in upgrading.

Ken

WK3700 is a great value for sure....for the price is absolutley hard to beat.
I played one last week in the store and was very impressed, especialy the organ/leslie and piano...76 keys also!

Ian,I know of at least 3 "Pros" using WK3000's, and two others that are going to get a WK...The main incentive is a light backup, but all are impressed with the organ drawbars and pianos..
BTW, each of the Pros own 1/SD1...2/PAx1...3/G1000[me].....and soon to be: 4/PSR3000...

The Casio WK can not beat out any of the above boards, but sounds for the price in a lightweight package and 76 keys...$ for $ it may beat out all of the above..

Don't get me wrong ...No one is going to dump a G1000,SD1, PAx1 or even a PSR3000 for the WK....[well maybe the PSR]..

Linda,if you would...
What do the flutes,brass(solo trumpet and ensemble)french horn and timpani sound like?
These sounds are the tie-breakers for me because I do a lot of soundtrack work.

Here's a real deal maker:Has Casio finally taken up Yamahas lead and made a snare drum roll sound available? It's a little hard trying to roll *even* two matching snares.
I would assume that Casio is not too proud to keep pace with the competition in some areas.

Casio at one time did do gongs(CT-655)if memory serves...

Fran,
I shouldn't have used the word "pro" because the only difference between a "pro" and an amateur is the fact that the "pro" gets paid.
"Whiter Shade of Pale" and dozens of other songs that use "on bass" chords would sound pretty lame without them...Casio has never upgraded their inferior chord system to suit the player who prefers to play the chords the song was written with and not have to substitute improper ones.
Saving money is one thing,lighter weight is another,but in my opinion,they mean nothing if you are unable to duplicate the proper song chords.
Sometimes the porridge is too hot(Korg)sometimes too cold (G1000)and sometimes it is just right(PSR-3000)but the poor Casio doesn't belong at the same table until they ditch the ancient Casio chord system so the music can be played as it is written.
It's a real shame, as Casio do have an exceptional "bang for the buck" with great sounds and clever features...with a more realistic chord system I'd be more than glad to use one,but;until they do...
Ian

I agree with trident on all these issues. You have to look at what casio is trying to accomplish, and what the target market is for these keyboards. You can't forget that we're talking about a sub $300 (3000/3200) keyboard here. And the sound quality that casio has brought to that price point is unbeatable. So a lot of the 'pros' are drawn to it because of the sound, but then are unhappy when they find it doesn't have the features they expect to find on $1000+ models. Do you really think that a beginner is interested in 16 track recording and pattern sequencing? Well, maybe they are in theory. But my guess is that 95% of the people who buy these keyboards never get past playing through the tones and -maybe- get into some of the rhythm/arrangement features. Do you think most of them even know what slash chord in split mode means? No at this price point it's the sound (and big speakers and fancy blue display) that get people to buy. And in my mind casio has succeeded with flying colors.

Exceptionally well put...the target market is fond of instruments like these.
And yes,to a pro (or discerning player),it is a disappointment that certain features,like a more workable accompaniment system are left off.
What a bargain this would be,not to mention 76 notes and a light weight.One can only hope that they add the uprated chord system in the future...but probably not.
If they did,it sure would give a big scare to the other manufacturers.
Ian

I think Casio at some point should rally to produce an instrument that falls somewhere between the WK's and the lone MZ,in terms of the feature set.I guess I'm just imagining the ultimate rompler,with a proper sequencer and the ability to load 3rd party sounds,and not just from the Casio Music Website.96 poly(a good compromise between 64 and 128) and a pair of stereo auxilary outs.

Casio did make a module way back in 1989 called the CSM-1,essentially a CT-640 in a box.It wasn't an outrageous success,but it was a useful device offering 4 part multi-timbral,10note poly and rhythms and an extremely user friendly interface.
An updated version of this,one of Casio's best kept secrets,would be nice.
Ian

Ian, that is why myself and others play left hand bass[songs like Whiter shade of pale]..

My primary keyboard has bass inversion[slash/bass]..but for intricate bass lines as well as walking bass we prefer playing the bass line and comp with the right hand..
In this respect the Casio WK3000 works fine..
BTW, if I recall Casio had a module[tabletop] in 1985-86, based on the CT8000..[it may have been an CT800]..

I think what you have to really look at here is what the 3200/3700 offer for the money. Break it down like this. The WK-3000/3500 were and still are great keyboards (great leap for Casio compared to previous models). Casio also doesn't aim for the professional. Can they make a killer arranger? Yes they can and did in back in 2000. It was the MZ-2000. That board had MANY features above the PSR-740, and blew it out of the water in these areas too. The market wasn't ready for the MZ-2000. It cost over $1,000. Just imagine a Casio back in the year 2000 costing over $1,000. I honestly think the MZ was a test for Casio to see how the public would take to it. Many pros looked at it said WOW, then saw the name of the maker and laughed at the thing. That board was WAY ahead of every Casio that was ever built. The operating system would have the typical Casio buyer putting a gun to their head. It had big learning curve for those not familiar with keyboards (which many buyers of Casio's aren't, which is why Casio is known for being someone's first)

Here's the problem. Casio has ALWAYS been known for that affordable (first) keyboard. We knock on them for this and other things, but Casio sells a CRAP LOAD of keyboards regardless. Why? because they're cheap, easy to use, and their EVERYWHERE. I know Casio makes a killing because when I used to manage a music store we also sold Casios. When Christmas rolled around I couldn't keep them on the shelves.

The new WK 3200/3700 line offers SO much for the money. You get awsome sounds (as stated by other the whole board sounds better than the previous models), basic voice editing, drawbar organs, good quality pitch and mod wheels (above the quality of the PSR-3000), good speakers, smart media and floppy storage, L/R output, 6 track recording, slots for loading new styles, and the list goes on. Who cares if their isn't a 16 track sequencer. It would be nice to have, but it's not worth griping about in my opinion. Beside a simple program like Cakewalk makes your Casio seem like a new board. Especially if you have the good instrument definitions. With Cakewalk and other programs you can do loop recording, pattern chaining and all that other good stuff.

I think it's good Casio doesn't go overboard on the features. They have to keep these boards simple because they are often bought as a first keyboard for someone. They have to keep the user interface as simple as they can.

I think you just have to give it time. We'll eventually see a WK with more tracks for recording. Also keep in mind that often when new features are added, they typically drop some of the less popular features (that we seasoned players) would use, and a mediocre player wouldn't. Here's a good example. We all love the new WK's with all their added features, but there is ONE feature that is important to many of us that they did drop. The previous WK's allowed you to record user styles. This feature was dropped on the new WK's.

What amazes me is that Casio completely improved the 3200/3700 and didn't charge ONE PENNY MORE. That alone says a lot. Hell Yamaha and others could take a lesson from that.

Squeak

Unless a rack-sized unit is mandatory, Casio already has a less-expensive model with the same sounds as the 3700, but minus the floppy drive, SmartMedia card, modulation wheel, and line outputs (the headphone jack could be used). The 61-key CTK-900 retails for around $200. The MIDI implementation of the CTK-900 and WK-3200/3700 is the same. http://www.casio-europe.com/euro/emi/ctk900/

--Barry

Casiobot,

I played with the brass the other night for hours. I had so much fun working with the French Horn tone. I am so impressed with these sounds. There are two different flutes. One sounds more breathy than the other. The effects on them are very impressive. Also, the sax of course is really terrific. I like the acoustic guitar tones as well.

I have not tried out all the drum kits yet. I will see if there is a snare drum roll but I doubt it. I will report back. Is it possible to create one from a sample sound?

BTW, the WK-3500 is still up for sale. Email me if anhyone is interested.

Thanks so much,

-Linda

Wow! Thank you Linda,looks like I'm in as soon as Sams Club or Costco bothers to get some stock...