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#159526 - 11/19/03 06:29 AM Yamaha Vocaloid Singing Synthesis
The Pro Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/09/02
Posts: 1087
Loc: Atlanta, Georgia
Well it's finally happening, just in time for NAMM 2004. Yamaha and Zero-G have teamed up to create virtual vocalist VST/Rewire "softsingers" called Vocaloids. These are programs that allows you to type in lyrics, enter note and expression values, and create realistic lead and backing vocals. This isn't robo-talk - they are saying that this technology is good enough to be the lead vocal on hit records. The first two Vocaloid programs to be released at NAMM, are "Leon" and "Lola". This looks very promising indeed... and speaking of promises, the demo page has one sample MP3 where the Vocaloids are in the background and not in the lead (hard to fully judge but sounds good so far) - and they say new demos will be posted from now until NAMM. My jingle studio just got a boner...

Here's the link to the info and the demo: http://www.zero-g.co.uk/index.cfm?articleid=803


[This message has been edited by The Pro (edited 11-19-2003).]
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#159527 - 11/19/03 06:48 AM Re: Yamaha Vocaloid Singing Synthesis
msutliff Offline
Member

Registered: 03/08/01
Posts: 640
Loc: Cottage Grove, MN, USA
Hey Pro,

Wow, that is very cool. I'm very interested in hearing what it does with a lead vocal.

Thanks for the info.

Quote:
Originally posted by The Pro:
My jingle studio just got a boner...


You just be careful where you point that thing......

mike

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#159528 - 11/19/03 06:52 AM Re: Yamaha Vocaloid Singing Synthesis
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 40923
Jim, thanx for the heads up ...BUT.....Although all this new technology might be fine for some, I feel we're headed into a non playing and singing future controled by electronics & buttons in the musical arena.
Little by little, inch by inch "REAL" music making is disintergrating.
I hope I'm not alone in feeling this happening?

[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 11-19-2003).]

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#159529 - 11/19/03 07:17 AM Re: Yamaha Vocaloid Singing Synthesis
The Pro Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/09/02
Posts: 1087
Loc: Atlanta, Georgia
Y'know I go back to the 80's when everyone around me was saying that drum machines were going to put drummers out of work. And maybe a few did go away but some drummers adapted and become good drum machine programmers. Heck I've seen solo drummers play gigs with everything else sequenced! Today, drum machines are everywhere but on stage there's still nothing like a real drummer. Personally I like any tool that gives me more creative options as a songwriter, arranger and producer. And VST singers have the potential to dent a few egos that have had it coming, heh heh...
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#159530 - 11/19/03 07:20 AM Re: Yamaha Vocaloid Singing Synthesis
msutliff Offline
Member

Registered: 03/08/01
Posts: 640
Loc: Cottage Grove, MN, USA
Quote:
Originally posted by Dnj:
..I feel we're headed into a non playing and singing future controled by electronics & buttons in the musical arena. Little by little, inch by inch "REAL" music making is disintergrating.


Not as long as YOU keep at it, Donny. No technological creation is ever going to replace what YOU give to your audience, night after night...YOUR performance!

To me, this kind of stuff is just man's feeble attempt at recreating something it can't. The magic that comes from a great musical performance.

I'd be lying if I said I wasn't interested in this kind of techno stuff. But the euphoria I'll get from listening to how well man has succeeded in duplicating the human voice is nothing, not even comparable to, the euphoria I get when listening to you sing Volare live and in person (and someday I will here you sing live, I'm sure of it).

For now, I'm gonna allow equal room for both mediums in my life--live sounds and man-made sounds. And fortunately, I can still tell the difference, I can separate the two.

mike

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#159531 - 11/19/03 07:47 AM Re: Yamaha Vocaloid Singing Synthesis
travlin'easy Online   happy
Senior Member

Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 14573
Loc: Forest Hill, MD USA
Originally posted by Dnj:
..I feel we're headed into a non playing and singing future controled by electronics & buttons in the musical arena. Little by little, inch by inch "REAL" music making is disintergrating.

I, unfortunately, must agree with Donny. There are a lot less drummers in this world, and additionally, far fewer live bands. The inroads made by DJ's and Karaoke guys has impacted the live performer to a vast degree. If you don't believe this is the case, just open your daily or weekly newspaper, look in the entertainment section and you'll find a huge number of listings where DJ's and Karaoke are headlined. If you're lucky, you may find a handful of live entertainers.

The same holds true for the wedding industry. DJ's have essentially put live bands out of business when it comes to the nuptual's festivities. Every catering outfit in the mid-Atlanti region has a list of DJ's they call on for weddings, but when the person requests a live band, which by the way is very unusual these days, the caterer usually says "If you want live music you'll have to find the band yourself."

Then, to put a little icing on the cake. How many of you have had someone come up to you after a performance where you performed every song live and sang your heart out and said "Oh, you were just great. You're the best DJ we ever had. There has even been a couple times when on the bottom of the check in the memo area the person wrote DJ Services.

Essenially, live bands will soon be extinct, and they will quickly be followed by live performers. Though I hope I am long in my grave when this occurs, the way things are progressing in this industry, I forsee a future where the music will all be digitized, the vocals will be digitized and there will be a computerized image of the band projected as a hologram on a fold-up stage made of lightweight plastic.

This, my friends, is called progress!

Gary
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#159532 - 11/19/03 08:38 AM Re: Yamaha Vocaloid Singing Synthesis
trtjazz Offline
Member

Registered: 08/01/02
Posts: 2683
I too have to agree with Donny and Gary here. Seems to me more and more cuts are pre-manufactured and very little is played live realtime by many. Far too many IMO have become desktop musicians. I love technology if used properly and different strokes for different folks.

I have a bit of a problem calling someone a musician though that assembles loops and samples, then hits play.

That all being said, the demo is amazing really.
Terry

------------------
jam on,
Terry http://imjazzed.homestead.com/Index.html

[This message has been edited by trtjazz (edited 11-19-2003).]
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jam on,
Terry
http://www.artisans-world.com/

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#159533 - 11/19/03 09:06 AM Re: Yamaha Vocaloid Singing Synthesis
The Pro Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/09/02
Posts: 1087
Loc: Atlanta, Georgia
Jeez - I thought I'd start a thread about some interesting new technology that may give some of us a few more creative options, but instead it turns into a podium for the techophobic among us. Why aren't you guys bitching about how arranger keyboards have put corner organ-grinders out of business? If you want to race head-first into obsolecense then God speed... I see the opportunites that technical advances provides and think of how I can use them, not how they'll threaten me.

But if you want to moan about how DJ's are conquering the world, maybe you should ask yourself why people would prefer DJ's over live music in the first place. And it isn't just cost - maybe people are sick of the poor quality of live entertainment they've been stuck with in the past, and the overbearing volume, and the egos of those who have little else to offer as entertainers. I make it a point to go out and see live music every week and most of it is lacking in musicianship, entertainment value, and sheer effort. Why? Because musicians who are after a quick buck have allowed their musical standards to drop to the lowest it's been in my lifetime. Most of them wouldn't even have been considered professional musicians had they lived 60 years earlier. As a result, audiences have become less discerning and less caring. Why not hire a DJ when you'll get a sound that is more or less predictable over what you might wind up with if you hire some guy to hold down a couple of notes on a keyboard while singing? If you're not more skilled and more interesting as an entertainer than a DJ, should you really be blaming the DJ?

If a DJ gets hired over me then I am solely to blame, and it means that my marketing and performing skills need more work. The march of technology hasn't got a damn thing to do with it. Sorry - I'm fresh out of warm blankets for you guys to hide under.
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#159534 - 11/19/03 11:52 AM Re: Yamaha Vocaloid Singing Synthesis
rikkisbears Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/22/02
Posts: 5294
Loc: NSW,Australia
Hi ,
I'd only read press releases. Makes it look even more exciting than I'd imagined.
Non singing hobbyists dream
Got the brain ticking already. Audio Files mp3's)on sd card playing in sync with my kn7 sequencer. wow


thanks Pro. It's got me dreaming already.

best wishes
rikki

[This message has been edited by rikkisbears (edited 11-19-2003).]

[This message has been edited by rikkisbears (edited 11-19-2003).]
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best wishes
Rikki

SX900, P121 Piano, Band in a Box 2019
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#159535 - 11/19/03 12:32 PM Re: Yamaha Vocaloid Singing Synthesis
Bluezplayer Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/10/00
Posts: 2195
Loc: Catskill Mountains, NY
I understand and share some of the sentiment expressed by Donny, Terry, and Gary. It's how I feel when I hear an arranger pattern playing an organ or synth section part. Unfortunately, how I think or feel about it isn't going to change it, so my choice will be to embrace it as much as I can.

In the purest sense, we as arranger players, including those of us who might use arrangers to perform as solo acts, have used technology in a similar way to simulate the existence of a real band to play with us ( for myself , while it's not something I do for a living, I have done it... ). Should we also decide not to use arrangers because the rythyms they produce are artifical ( they are guys and gals.. ) ? Suppose my goal is to showcase my keyboard playing and or songwriting skills and the singer is there to accompany me ? How is this that much different ? I can't play the drums at the same time I'm playing the "C3" ( another simulation ) right ? Am I fooling anyone if I use my hands and keys to produce a sax solo ?

Nope, I'm gonna embrace the technologhy as far as it can go, 'cause like it or not, it's coming and I can't stop it. My voice works ok for blues and some other stuff. I can't really write my own stuff that includes tenor ballad vocals.. not at least if I'm gonna sing it. This technology may not ever change that, but I gotta admit, the thought of the potential for it does interest me. Thanks for the info Jim.

AJ

[This message has been edited by Bluezplayer (edited 11-19-2003).]
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