I wonder how factory styles are produced? With the same editing tools that we have at disposal in our arranger keyboards? Other more sophisticated tools...? Does anybody know?

-- José.

I think that some companies, like Ketron, use professional musicians to record their styles and I think that, whenever possibile, they use their everyday instruments. For example, I am sure that they use real guitarists with midi-guitars and drummers with drum pads that trigger midi notes. I think that for editing purposes they use a computer sequencer like Cubase or Cakewalk or whatever. The difference with what we can do is that they use professionals that play the same kind of stuff every day, sometimes even in recording studios. I think also that they use different kind of musicians for different kind of styles. This approach is maybe more expensive than others, but in the end is what makes the difference.

I concur with Dreamer. I'd like to add that when styles are initially recorded, that they're typically recorded at the 'software' sequencer's highest midi timing resolution (1,920 ppq +), as this insures capturing all the subtle timing nuances of the original performance. Unfortunately, when these recordings are then converted and played back on 'hardware' sequencers (type included in our arrangers), much of the spark of the original performance can be lost, because many hardware sequencers only support 96 ppq maximum timing resolutions. This effectively quantizes the music down making for a bland sound. The Yamaha PSR2000 was a breakthrough keyboard in that it is the first arranger with a hardware sequencer which supports a high timing resolution (1,920 ppq) similar to the professional level software sequencers out there. A sequencer's timing resolution directly effects the quality & realism (live sound) of a style. I only HOPE that the next generation of arrangers (Yamaha Tyros, Ketron XD9, Technics KN7000, etc) will begin increasing their hardware sequencer timing resolution as well. I look forward to hearing from others on this.

This question recently came up in the pa80 group. And we're lucky enough to have some Korg reps participate. One of them, another guy from Italy named Andrea (not you, Dreamer) has said that the Korg people use the same MIDI to style software that they have made available to us meager customers. It seems hard to believe, but this is how they create factory styles, but at least at Korg, that's how it's done.
Tom G.

One thing to note though. Korg's rep statedf they were sequenced in a computer based sequencer. The key point omitted here was what controllers were used with the external sequencer ( KB ? midi guitars, wind contollers, etc ?? ) and what kind of sequencer used. I think that Andrea's reply more or less was an illustration to show that the recorded midi data was converted to PA styles via Korg's style tool ( that I CAN believe ), and that the data was later tweaked as needed inside of the board ( also believable )

Thanks a lot to everybody for sharing your knowledge about factory styles' production. The motivation for my question was: I find it very hard to create a style (from scratch, from the keyboard itself and from the recording/editing tools provided) that has a quality comparable to the factory styles included in my Ketron module. So the factory must have tools (and colaboration of professional musicians, like Andrea suggests) that we'll never possess, no matter how talented we are. I can understand that midi real instruments played by experienced musicians will produce styles difficult to match in quality, with our keyboards.

Thanks
José.

Well, one thing that could be done is to try and create a decent style starting with a good midifile. Some companies use professional or semi-professional musician to record midifiles of very good quality and a software like Styleworks pro has an option to create a style starting from a midifile. You just have to choose what part of the midifile will be your intro, your basic or advanced section, your ending, etc. I guess that before doing this you will have to transpose all the tracks to the same tonality, though.
True, this way you will never match the complexity of styles (like the ones from Roland) that have different rhytm tracks -even in the same section- for major, minor or seventh chords, but at least you will be able to play your favorite song without being tied to a midifile; in other words you will be able to lenghten or shorten your song at will.

Ever since I received the Yamaha PSR740, I have been curious about this myself!

For instance, the Yamaha PSR740's styles are simply incredible - with complex drum rhythms, etc. But I realized that I could learn so much from Yamaha's styles! Since I do not know much about rock music in general, I could then study the rock styles and get an idea of what drums were used, how the guitar was played, and more. So, you can basically learn A LOT from the styles that are available on these advanced keyboards...I have!


Midi-guitars and drums?! I've thought about this before many times and how useful these MIDI instruments could be! MIDI drums, for instance, sound like they could be extremely useful because it allows the drummer to fully express the complicated rhythms by actually playing realistic drums, instead of hitting the keyboard's keys! This allows the drummer to actually express the rhythms more realistically and I think that MIDI drums would be an awesome way to compose styles and drum tracks. I've never heard of the MIDI-Guitar, but that also sounds awesome as well. That would definitely be the best way to integrate guitar parts into an MIDI song - that way, the most realistic sound would be achieved!

Interesting discussion everybody and thanks for sharing your knowledge about styles. Currently, I am working on a style and it comes naturally when composing the drums...but I can see why the MIDI drums and guitar could help!

See you all around and looking forward to talking to you more!
Ryan

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