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#158977 - 09/26/07 06:16 AM UD - question
zuki Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/20/02
Posts: 4223
Loc: Michigan
UD,

This question got buried in another thread, but what keyboard did you use to produce your harmonies in Nightengale? Did you have to tweek, etc?

Very good

zuki
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Korg PA3X / Yamaha P125 / Yamaha MX61 / QSC 8.2s / Zed mixers / Blue mics / Roland BR800

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#158978 - 09/26/07 06:26 AM Re: UD - question
Dnj Online   content
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 40698
Zuki ...If I can recall Dave could not trigger Voc Harmonies with his Right hand on the Yamaha arrangers....I believe since he always used the Digitech VR, or TC Helicon unit which allows him to do so with & that lets him do more intricate passing RH harmonies.
KORG & Roland have this quality Harmonizer on their units now.



[This message has been edited by Nigel (edited 09-27-2007).]

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#158979 - 09/26/07 07:03 AM Re: UD - question
JIMSAX Offline
Member

Registered: 09/11/07
Posts: 44
Loc: Baltimore MD USA
DNJ,

The vocal harmonizer can be trigered by eather the right or left hand on TY1 and the TY2. Just select the Mike setting and look under VOCAL HARMONY CONTROL and select upper or lower.

Jim
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#158980 - 09/26/07 07:12 AM Re: UD - question
Dnj Online   content
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 40698
I stand corrected, couldnt remember since I sold my T1/T2/ I wasnt sure about the Tyros units vs the others mentioned....
but it still leaves the lackluster quality of the Yamaha vocal Harmonizers which is a feature we utilize extensivly in our shows.
Im sure dave will explain asap.

[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 09-26-2007).]

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#158981 - 09/26/07 07:22 AM Re: UD - question
ianmcnll Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10596
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
PSR-S900 does it from the right hand as well.

Used wisely, by a competent performer, it sounds just fine.

Ian
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Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.

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#158982 - 09/26/07 07:37 AM Re: UD - question
zuki Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/20/02
Posts: 4223
Loc: Michigan
Quote:
Originally posted by ianmcnll:
PSR-S900 does it from the right hand as well.

Used wisely, by a competent performer, it sounds just fine.

Ian


Just fine? Hopefully doesn't equate to "good enough". Maybe I'm doing something wrong, but I really can't use that feature the way it sounds.

zuki
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Korg PA3X / Yamaha P125 / Yamaha MX61 / QSC 8.2s / Zed mixers / Blue mics / Roland BR800

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#158983 - 09/26/07 08:38 AM Re: UD - question
zuki Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/20/02
Posts: 4223
Loc: Michigan
Scott,

Very nice harmonies on smoke. Do you happen to have the settings and maybe I can try in my 900 - you just shed some light...thanks

zuki
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Korg PA3X / Yamaha P125 / Yamaha MX61 / QSC 8.2s / Zed mixers / Blue mics / Roland BR800

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#158984 - 09/26/07 08:44 AM Re: UD - question
Dnj Online   content
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Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 40698

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#158985 - 09/26/07 08:57 AM Re: UD - question
zuki Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/20/02
Posts: 4223
Loc: Michigan
Unbelievable representation from Korg and Roland. Thanks for the link.

Is the VP-550 harmonizer in the G70???

zuki
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Korg PA3X / Yamaha P125 / Yamaha MX61 / QSC 8.2s / Zed mixers / Blue mics / Roland BR800

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#158986 - 09/26/07 09:00 AM Re: UD - question
Dnj Online   content
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 40698
Quote:
Originally posted by zuki:
Unbelievable representation from Korg and Roland. Thanks for the link.

Is the VP-550 harmonizer in the G70???

zuki


zuki dont be fooled....the proof is in the pudding.

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#158987 - 09/26/07 09:01 AM Re: UD - question
zuki Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/20/02
Posts: 4223
Loc: Michigan
So.......is the VP-550 in the G70?
_________________________
Korg PA3X / Yamaha P125 / Yamaha MX61 / QSC 8.2s / Zed mixers / Blue mics / Roland BR800

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#158988 - 09/26/07 09:35 AM Re: UD - question
mikeathome1 Offline
Member

Registered: 08/23/04
Posts: 1208
Loc: Syracuse NY
Quote:
Originally posted by zuki:
Just fine? Hopefully doesn't equate to "good enough". Maybe I'm doing something wrong, but I really can't use that feature the way it sounds.

zuki



I agree that it is not the best but there are many performers here that have used the psr 3000 vocal harmonizer successfully for years.
Maybe one of the "pros" will tell you the settings they used and you can get an idea how to translate that to the 900.
Gary Diamond would be a good place to start.

Maybe Donny will tell you how he made it work for him for the couple of years he used it.

I believe it is a combination of the mic mixer settings and the setup on the vocal harmony and if I remember correctly you have to back off the mic when using the harmony.

Maybe I'm wrong I also at various times have used a digitech and a tc helicon voiceworks.


[This message has been edited by mikeathome1 (edited 09-26-2007).]
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#158989 - 09/26/07 10:08 AM Re: UD - question
Dnj Online   content
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 40698
lets face it honestly .....the Yammy voc works just ok...it is no competition for TC Helicon or digitec or Roland.

Yes we made it worked just barley with certain edit tweaks and certain singing techniques also.....because the TRACKING is sub par at best.

Also if you want to fool yourself into thinking that Using a Vocalizer live is just a gimmick your are very wrong...ITS AN ART FORM ALL BY ITSELF as important to learn how to sing and use correctly otherwise DONT USE IT AT ALL.....it takes much practice how/when/where to use it in songs and what type of harmonies to use also providing you playing the right chords.

Forget providing settings there
IS NO MAGIC ANSWER you have to set it up FOR YOUR VOICE ONLY.......trial and error gets it done ....

I repeat Yamaha works....
but the QUALITY & TRACKING IS NOT.

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#158990 - 09/26/07 11:01 AM Re: UD - question
mikeathome1 Offline
Member

Registered: 08/23/04
Posts: 1208
Loc: Syracuse NY
One more thing before I bought the voiceworks I sent away for the demo cd of course that was the clincher. a lot of great sounding stuff there.
It is capable of so much more than I ever used it for.
But the reason I liked it was it was a complete vocal channel with reverb, delay, compression,eq and more. It sounded great before you ever even added the harmony. And of course you could set up the presets and take your sound with you.

Donnie on the PA800 you know it the vocal channel uses the tc helicon effects also?
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#158991 - 09/26/07 01:50 PM Re: UD - question
mikeathome1 Offline
Member

Registered: 08/23/04
Posts: 1208
Loc: Syracuse NY
Yamaha Tyros2 Vocalizer:
Smoke, Smoke That Cigarette
recorded by Dan (big741)

Great sounding demo.
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#158992 - 09/26/07 02:20 PM Re: UD - question
ianmcnll Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10596
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
Quote:
Originally posted by mikeathome1:

Yamaha Tyros2 Vocalizer:
Smoke, Smoke That Cigarette
recorded by Dan (big741)

Great sounding demo.


Dan Rymut hails from Edmonton Alberta, Canada.

He posts some of his work at YPKO.

Ian
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Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.

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#158993 - 09/26/07 04:43 PM Re: UD - question
Songman55 Offline
Member

Registered: 06/24/05
Posts: 892
Loc: Baltimore, MD USA
Yo guys,

I attended a keyboard workshop a couple of years ago at Chuch Levin's Music in Washington put on by AJ and he had all the boards with the exception of the PA800 side by side and the vocal harmonizer on the G 70 blew everything else out of the room. The Yamahas didn't even come close.

Joe

------------------
Songman55
Joe Ayala
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PSR S950, PSR S900, Roland RD 700, Yamaha C3 6'Grand, Sennheiser E 935 mic, several recording mics including a Neuman U 87, Bose L1 Compact, Roland VS 2480 24 Track Recorder
Joe Ayala

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#158994 - 09/26/07 05:36 PM Re: UD - question
tony mads usa Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/16/02
Posts: 13197
Loc: East Greenwich RI USA
Hey KIDS, let's knock it off ...
Back to the subject - I may be stupid (OK I AM stupid), but wouldn't it stand to reason that a stand alone voice processor/harmonizer that costs anywhere from $600 to $1300 SHOULD sound better than one found in an arranger kb?????
J M .02 W ..
t.
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t. cool

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#158995 - 09/26/07 05:44 PM Re: UD - question
Uncle Dave Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/01/99
Posts: 11462
Loc: Philadelphia Pa, USA
umm...... excuse me - wasn't a question raised here for me?

I'll try and answer as simply as I can.
There are a number of reasons why the Yamaha harmonisers fall short of my desires.
1) They only work while the arranger section is set to that hand position, and playing. When the drums stop - the singers leave the stage.
2) The start/stop is rough and cannot be turned on and off to simulate a real backup group blending in and out of the melody. Hit th efootswitch at the wrong time, and you get a hiccup in the vocals
3) The actual tone of the voices is lackluster IMO. Even my old Digitech VR sounded better with my voice than my Tyros did. ( yes, I had a Tyros, just couldn;t wait to dump it )
4) Using the harmonies while using seq play was too involved. Remember - I want to ALWAYS trigger the harmonies live from my right hand...I never want an auto chord channel to just send a signal to the processor.
5) On the PA800, I can trigger from the right, have the LH playing bass and follow the drummer in my good, old, trusted Manhatten Transfer style. No arranger chords getting in the way of the intricate harmonizations of the main instrument in my shows - my voice.

The Digitech VR is not teh newest technology, yet it still performs better than most of the competition. Even the cheaper TC units did not fit into my setup for one reson or another.

Now, stop your bickering please, and get on with your lives !
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Every instrument, every voice, every sound in nature ... these are are all my private tutors ... 24/7 for free, and all I have to do is listen.

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#158996 - 09/26/07 05:59 PM Re: UD - question
Scottyee Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/01/99
Posts: 10427
Loc: San Francisco Bay Area, CA, US...
Quote:
Originally posted by tony mads usa:
but wouldn't it stand to reason that a stand alone voice processor/harmonizer that costs anywhere from $600 to $1300 [b]SHOULD sound better than one found in an arranger kb?????[/B]


DITTO!
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#158997 - 09/26/07 07:51 PM Re: UD - question
Dnj Online   content
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 40698
Quote:
Originally posted by Songman55:
Yo guys,

I attended a keyboard workshop a couple of years ago at Chuch Levin's Music in Washington put on by AJ and he had all the boards with the exception of the PA800 side by side and the vocal harmonizer on the G 70 blew everything else out of the room. The Yamahas didn't even come close.

Joe



Thanx Joe for the truth.....

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#158998 - 09/26/07 10:52 PM Re: UD - question
mikey_maestro Offline
Member

Registered: 07/12/07
Posts: 548
Loc: San Tan Valley, AZ
You guys all rock!!!!

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God Bless,
Mikey

www.mikeymaestro.com
www.balloonanimal.com
www.1000colorcards.com

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#158999 - 09/27/07 12:46 AM Re: UD - question
miden Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/31/06
Posts: 3353
Loc: The World
i have used the PLG100VH board (the same harmoniser thats in the Tyros/PSR series) in my s90es, i have used the TC-Helicon one on the pa1x pro, and the harmonizer on the sd1+...far and away (and i mean daylight second!) is the TC-Helicon unit found in the PA series, the only one that remotely comes close is the ketron harmonizer.i use the harmoniser both playing live chords and pre-programmed(by me) harmony tracks in midi files..no question TC Helicon wins everytime...( i demoed the new digitech vocalist II a while ago, and its useable but not in the same league either) sorry to rain on the yamaha/and others parade, its just my opinion on the available harmonisers i have actually used/tried.
cheers
PS just wanted to add FWIW!!

[This message has been edited by miden (edited 09-27-2007).]

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#159000 - 09/27/07 05:26 AM Re: UD - question
cgiles Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/29/05
Posts: 5785
Loc: Roswell,GA/USA
Quote:
Originally posted by zuki:
So.......is the VP-550 in the G70?


Zuki, I'm sure that you know that the VP-550 is a stand-alone keyboard VH. I've owned one for some time now (as do many tour groups) and it is one of the most fun and potentially useful tools I've ever owned, particularly if you're a lousy singer like me. The one thing that might be inconvenient for some people, is that is does not have built-in transposition. If this is a real problem for you, you can always midi it to another keyboard that does.

I can't answer you question definitively because I'm not familiar with the G70's harmonizer, but I suspect the answer is no, as it would be diffcult to duplicate all the functionality of the VP550 inside of an arranger. It's just too purpose-built.

Even I can lay down some reasonable background vocal tracks as you can literally "talk" the words or be slightly off pitch, or sing in a monotone. You could really wow a crowd with it, though.

chas
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"Faith means not wanting to know what is true." [Nietzsche]

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#159001 - 09/27/07 06:30 AM Re: UD - question
travlin'easy Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 14498
Loc: Forest Hill, MD USA
Zuki,

Much of the above information is right on the money. The vast majority of onboard harmonizers provide marginal harmony quality at best and must be fine tuned to achieve this. That's why I swithced to the Digitech VR when it first came out and never looked back. Unfortunately, this processor is no longer made.

One of the problems with performers using vocal harmonizers is overkill. They tend to use it as a lead voice instead of harmony accompaniament, which is the use for it is intended and designed for. And, as DNJ stated, it's an artform in itself. You cannot expect to sing, hit a switch and have beautiful harmony mysteriously appear--it just don't happen that way. You need to set the system up for you, fine tune it to the Nth degree, save the settings, and practice using lots of vocal control. The trigger mechanism is quite complex, sensitive to tiny quirks, and without voice control it's easy to end up with lousy results.

Vocal harmony processors can, and often do, add a lot to the routine of a good performer. I've heard UD live using his Digitech VR years ago and the results were amazing. Of course, his right hand chording is amazing as well. (I didn't know humans had that many fingers on one hand! ) Throughout his performance the vocals were crisp, clear and distinct, and harmony was just a small part of his overall performance.

The bottom line: There is no magic bullet, magic black box, or magic anything else to create quality vocal harmonies. Instead, it's the combination of setting up your keyboard's vocal processor, plus individual singing and playing ability. Eliminate any one of those components and the best equipment in the world won't make a bit of difference.

Good Luck,

Gary

------------------
Travlin' Easy
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PSR-S950, TC Helicon Harmony-M, Digitech VR, Samson Q7, Sennheiser E855, Custom Console, and lots of other silly stuff!

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#159002 - 09/27/07 07:06 AM Re: UD - question
cgiles Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/29/05
Posts: 5785
Loc: Roswell,GA/USA
Quote:
Originally posted by travlin'easy:

The bottom line: There is no magic bullet, magic black box, or magic anything else to create quality vocal harmonies. Instead, it's the combination of setting up your keyboard's vocal processor, plus individual singing and playing ability. Eliminate any one of those components and the best equipment in the world won't make a bit of difference.



THE GOSPEL. THE END.

And with the "playing" component, it's true of keyboards as well (arranger or otherwise).
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"Faith means not wanting to know what is true." [Nietzsche]

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