Hello synth forums!
I'm a VH/Yes obsessed guitar player in jazz guitar school looking to get a synth because synths are awesome and insanely versatile and flexible and cool. What I'm looking for is this:graded, high quality keyboard, and a way to expand sample/midi soundfont memory(like a flash memory card slot or something). I just want a high quality synth that I can download samples/soundfonts for and get all the chill 80's and 70's sounds(think Yes, ELO, Zeppelin, old Micheal Jackson, Dead or Alive, Rush, Talking Heads, Dire Straits, Duran Duran, Van Halen, etc.) along with any other midi/sample stuff(like video game music samples, whatever Vince DiCola used on the Transformers the Movie soundtrack, voice samples etc.)

Hmmm... Maybe I did'nt need to write all that. I just want a very solid synth by itself that I can load up with some 1GB flashcard or something so I can get any sound I want.

I'll probably be running this through a mackie mixer straight up at first, and when I get the cash for a keyboard amp I'll mic that. I don't know about synth recording though, so correct me if I'm wrong.

Tell me everything you can think of regardless of price if you can, but my price range is probably about $800-$900. Thanks!

[This message has been edited by Wheelbarrow (edited 11-29-2005).]

[This message has been edited by Wheelbarrow (edited 11-29-2005).]

Wow Wheelbarrow,
You can certainly run a keyboard straight into a mixer. My experience in this would be to raise the keyboard level as high as possible then adjust from the mixer. This sends the strongest signal into the mixer from the keyboard. This is often the preferred method.

You got quite a list of bands there. Thinking of the many songs that each of these play, you're going to need nearly every sound there ever was. From minimoogs to wurlies to B3's to incredible pads/strings I think you 'll be able to get away without having a great orchestral soundset but you got ELO listed there too. You'll also need some DX7 sounds.

The sound set alone is pretty expansive that you're talking about... So whatever synth you settle on, you will probably need to expand it. Not many come stock with that array with great quality.

A graded, high quality keyboard in itself is not cheap unless you go for a Fatar type controller, but they lack really good "live" control-ability. Which leads me to ask, will you need this rig to play live or just to record and play in the studio? Cause if you don't plan to play live, you don't need as much control.

And all for 800-900..... wow... I think that's pretty tall order unles you go for used gear.

Maybe others will have some ideas... I'm thinking Alesis QS8 series. But to be honest I haven't heard a lot of them nor their expansion cards. I just know they have a weighted (not sure if it's graded or balanced though, probably balanced since it's a synth). By the way, "graded" to me means the keyboard has a heavier feel in the bass area and progressive becomes lighter as yo move up the board. This is generally not what you want from a synth as the synth is used to play sounds other than just piano. But a stage or digital piano is usually "graded" as piano is the main sound.

Some synths are greatly supported by many programming companies. I personally use Motif and the sound sets & online support is fantastic. Many sound libraries are available from programming companies, but you're not going to get a weighted motif for your price range. (I'm also assuming because you said "graded" you mean you want weighted 88's.)

If you're not going to play live... and you have a PC, then a weighted controller (I have used and like the feel of the Fatar SL-880), and soft synths may be the way for you to go. That combination may keep you closer to your price range and give you great quality of sounds. I've not delved into the world of soft synths so I can't offer any advise about which are good and which are not nor how they perform in certain PC/operating systems. But I understand the quality of soft synth samples often surpass the quality in hardware synths.


I can offer you this... take your time and learn all you can about synths over the next month or two before buying anything. There's nothing worse than buying a synth only to find it's not really what you want once you learn it, then you have to sell it or live with it.

Best wishes
Bob
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[This message has been edited by RW (edited 11-30-2005).]

Ok I think I'm going to go high end. I got the ok pricewise. So what is better-Motif,Fantom, or Triton?(These seem to be the three with the best expandablilty like USB/memorycard/etc.)

Ahhh the ultimate question..."So what is better-Motif,Fantom, or Triton?". That my friend has been and still gets debated all over the place.... You see where I settled. I'm a Motif fan. What got me into the Motif line was the S90. A few years ago I was looking for a weighted 88 performance synth. Of all the synths I could play at the time, I liked the feel, sound, and response from the S90 then from any of the Korg or Roland boards, But I do love the Roland FP seriers, but they are just stage pianos. After bying and using the S90 and becomeing more familiar with the OS and tweaking sounds to near perfection (for my ears), I just decided Motif was great for me. When I wanted to upgraded my semi-weight 76 keyboard Roland XP-80, and needed better B3 sounds, I shopped around and found the ES7 to be the best for me again. So I sold my XP-80, and some other non-used studio gear, saved a litte dough, got all the price quotes I could find and got my ES7 for $2,000. Yet I did miss a small handfull of the XP-80's pads, and eventually I picked up a used JV1080 to get those sounds back into my arsenal. I've heard some folks complain a bit about the Motif's brass/horns, and that the Triton has better brass/horns. I don't use brass/horns much at all so it's not been an issue for me. Once in a while I'll use a softer solo horn in a mix, like a french horn, from the Motif and I have no quams about the sound quality.

I also have heard from many that the user interfaces are much easier with Fantom and Triton than with Motif. They have bigger touch screens and all, But I never saw that as something that important. The learning curve on the Motif is an issue with some folks. Yamaha has put out a instructional DVD. I still use the manual, which can be a bit of a pain. But still in all, I'm still digging and loving my S90 and ES7.

So this is just one person's opinion, Motif beats Fantom and Korg. I know others will have a different opinion.

Best wishes
Bob
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Hi!
I also like the Motif ES. I chose it over a lot of other workstations (Kurzwell,Roland, Korg) and I'm quite happy with it. Overall sound and FX setup is great. Sounds work together very well and are easy to edit. Plug-in boards are excellent. Very versatyle. There are some silly things about it's user interface and system setup but I can say so for the Phantom and Triton as well. They all have issues and problems. So it's just a matter of which problems you don't mind dealing with and which you'd rrather not.

I think all today's workstations are beautifully designed and all offer something unique. Personally however I'm totally unimpressed by some features of Roland Phantom workstations (at least the features that Roland are trying to use as a strong selling point). There are some sounds that I like but it's not an ideal workstation for my needs. FX setup is nothing special and the quality of some FX is definitely not great.
With some tweaking Phantoms can sound like a million bucks but factory presets do not do them justice.

Right away I can tell you that there are quite a few people that I know who will totally disagree with me. That's the way it should be though.

So there's no such thing as "the best synth" since it really comes down to one's individual needs and taste. Use what seems right to you. Everything else is a complete waste of time.

-ED-

[This message has been edited by 3351 (edited 12-02-2005).]

Motif Es player here as well. Ed is spot on too. They are all good. For me it came down to what I liked best in acoustic type sounds and then some of the features.

After trying them all, I've decided I still prefer the ES, but I wouldn't be unhappy about owning either the Triton Extreme or the Fantom.

If I was choosing a sample based board mainly on internal synth type sounds, I think I'd likely lean toward the Triton a little more, but I have more than enough Analog, digital and hybrid softsynths and modules that can be tweaked much deeper than what a workstation can give me, so personally I am not interested much in workstation synth sounds.

AJ

AJ, how does that analog modelling board you have plugged into the ES Motif compare to current soft synths you have been trying?

Hi!
I too have AN1X PLG150 installed on my Motif. IT is excellent.
The only real drawbacks are polyphony and multitimbrality (or lack of there of). It only has five notes of polyphony and it can only be used for one part at a time. The only way to expand that is to install additional AN1X plug-in boards (only two more you can install) and then it all adds up to 15 notes three parts multitimbral.

Advantage of software is that you can run as many instances and use as much polyphony as your computer's CPU can handle. On my G5 dual core 2.7 I can use as many soft synths at the same time as I like and polyphony wise I think it's something crazy like well over a thousand notes (of coarse with some plug-ins it's a bit less. Although not on my system. Ever since I went G5 I haven't once got a CPU overload message.).

Sonically AN1X synth and AN1X KB are identical. Very advanced. Very flexible modular type architecture. Definitely unique and sound wise it's right up there with software beasts like Arturia's CS-80, NI Pro 53, MiniMoog V etc. Great synth. Editor is great to work with. Yamaha's definitely done a good job.
Some silly things regarding it's system setup. MIDI clock has to be enabled per patch and when used as a plug-in board with Motif ES synths it only has like 128 memory locations total (the rest is hidden banks that you can load but can't save to). But if you use software librarians with it it's not an issue. I handle it with Sysex dumps. Since I use about a ton of soft synths I don't really have to be concerned with polyphony and multitimbrality and my main interest in AN1X is it's own unique sound.

So if you think you're going to need 16 parts and 80 notes polyphony of analog modeling sounds get a Virus TI. If you need a workstation that does a bit of it all and does it well get a Triton or a MotiF ES. If you find that you're fedup with limitations of hardware get a decent PC and an audio card and enjoy many many different software toys as most of us here do.

Best way to go is to combine it all into one giant setup. Add one piece at a time and before you know it you've built yourself a decent KB studio. Took me a while but I'm pretty much there.

Just have to decide if I want to spend money on another Neuman mic or a virus TI. It's a never ending process you know. Once you bought one synth expect another 50 on the way. some will come and go. Some will stay with you and stick around like an old friend. Same with guitars, mics and amps.

-ED-

[This message has been edited by 3351 (edited 12-03-2005).]

Thanks for all the info! I'm ebaying right now!

Nigel,

Ed is on the money. The AN has nice preset sounds and is similar in some ways to NI's Pro 53 ( the AN is also supposed to be a Prophet 5 emulation ), but I have to dig through a few menus to access all of them. Also, as Ed points out, the AN is limited to 5 notes of polyphony, unless of course one adds a second AN board. Then you would get 10 notes of poly, or 15 with 3 boards.

In order to use the ES' internal effects with it, I need to assign them to each AN sound individually and then save as a user voice. If I want to do anything more than surface editing with it, I need to use a computer. On the plus side, the AN's sound engine is very strong and someone with decent editing skills can come up with a nice version of almost any analog sound that you can immagine

Even then, I find the Pro 53's interface to be easier to use, and it has a wider range of, and more diversified presets. I think the AN is quite good though for live use, particularly if you don't mind editing / storing some patches.


AJ


[This message has been edited by Bluezplayer (edited 12-04-2005).]