Ok, here again the test files in question made with the new GM/GS Mediastation Sound bank.
1) Here the original standard Midifile: http://www.lionstracs.com/demo/test/danielemidi.mid
And this is the relative Mp3 result: http://www.lionstracs.com/demo/test/daniele.mp3

2) Here the original standard midifile: http://www.lionstracs.com/demo/test/Liberi.mid
And this is the relative Mp3 result: http://www.lionstracs.com/demo/test/liberi.mp3

3) Here the original standard midifile: http://www.lionstracs.com/demo/test/Sensibilita.mid
And this is the relative Mp3 result: http://www.lionstracs.com/demo/test/sensibilita.mp3

Regards
Domenik


[This message has been edited by LIONSTRACS (edited 06-29-2006).]

[This message has been edited by LIONSTRACS (edited 06-29-2006).]

Domenick,

That MP3 sounds awesome. I can't believe those sounds are from the GM sound bank in the Mediastation. Very Nice.

This should be a fun and educational test.



------------------
Al Giordano
www.al-giordano.com

Tyros 2, Yamaha P-250, Korg Triton Extreme 76, Roland VK8-M, DW Collectors Series Drums

I thought I would play ......

I .....
1.Took the provided midi file,
2.Loaded it into my Tyros 2
3.Shut off channel 4 as instructed
4.Recorded the midi file to my internal Tyros h/d adjusting only for volumes
5.Exported the wav file to my pc to convert to 128kbps mp3 (you did not mention the bit rate, so I chose 128 as I normally would.

Here are my results: Nevermind

I must say I loved this tune period, with either version so far. Who's song is this? Great jazz piece.

Terry

------------------
jam on,
Terry http://www.artisans-world.com/

[This message has been edited by trtjazz (edited 06-24-2006).]

I think that sound fab Domenik! I also think it's great to see you participating on the forum again.

Can you imagine the creator of Yamaha uploading an mp3 of his newest keyboard for our opinions/debate?

Sounds fantastic on the PSR-3000 as well. Outstanding!

Gary

------------------
Travlin' Easy

I like the idea but not this midi file, at least for demo purposes. It would be more informative to have a midi file with more tonal variety... say a few lead bars from the acoustic piano, some guitar lines, a few horn riffs... something to give us an impression of the overall sounds and especially real-world sounds where many GM keyboards are weakest. This particular file almost seems designed not to stress the instrument too much.

Domenik,
welcome back to the forum, it is good to see you again. We need all the opinions we can get, and congratulations on your progress in English. I hope yo stay here, there is nothing more than good natured critisism here.

Soon (Monday perhaps) you will have examples from me, using Roland HyperCanvas, Hypersonic2 GM module, and if possible, Bandstand, if no-one here can do it in the weekend before me.

Question: You mention 64 in the *.jpg name an then you mention 256 Mb. Is this Mbit or MByte??

64Mbit=8MBytes of GM/GS sounds
256Mbit is 64 Mbytes of GM/GS sounds
Which one is the real number?


Keep up the good work.
Theodore

ADDITION:

Terry,
Domenik's file is 320Kbps. I believe the Tyros 2 sounds better though. We'll see what the others think.

[This message has been edited by trident (edited 06-23-2006).]

It's a good midi file. I do however have to say (and this of course will always fall down to a matter of taste I guess), I noticed that the file when played on the Mediastation, had a "stong" 80's vibe--not sure if this was the goal, but I favored the file played back on the T2 because it had a more modern sound--Again that's just me, and my personal taste.

The composition itself is quite nice and laid back. I would love to hear a sax break in a solo some where in the song though.

Squeak

Here's the Edirol SD-90 Studio Canvas external sound module.

Click Here

Nice tune. The chord progression reminds me of a Boz Scaggs song, Jojo.

Wasn't crazy about the guitar of the Tyros yet I thought it had the best drums (so far)(funny, kind of the opposite of what you would think). The Mediastation sounds good too.

-mike

The midi file sounds OK both from the MP3 of the Mediastation and also played back on my T2. It is a pretty basic file and as people are putting, it would have been nice to have heard some sort of piano/guitar/sax solo on top of it all
I would prefer to see Dom posting demos of new internal sounds and styles if they exist rather than a new GM set. Not many live performers who are truly capable of playing use midi files, so they when it comes to a GM/GS sound set it doesn't matter how good or bad it is.
This demo goes to show that when it comes to GM/GS sounds the Mediastation is now obviously able to compete with the likes of Yamaha and Roland etc so this set of sounds has improved since I last owned a Mediastation, however when it comes to matching the internal styles of the T2, G70, SD1, PA1xpro it has a hell of a long way to go and is still playing catchup.

Edirol version:

I thought sounded pretty thin and lifeless myself.

Terry

Domenik, you're welcome. Now if we can keep everyone focused on the sound here and the experiment you are trying to pull off it will be interesting hearing all the results.

I revoiced and rerecorded this to my own liking, different guitar, drums, fretless bass and E. piano, with available T2 sounds and it can be made to sound killer on the T2 with very little work.

Were I to use a midifile, which I don't use them I would revoice it anyway. Seems to me if we want to show off sound comparisons of the differing voices, then each should take this file and tweak it to the max to get the best possible sound they can acheive (subjective of course). What I am saying is the GM soundsets on my T2 have dust on them from lack of use, I always choose the best possible one I can find on board and it's rarely a GM sound.

Terry

------------------
jam on,
Terry
http://www.artisans-world.com/

---------------------------------------------
Maybe I can play the 750Mb Real Sax from Realsamples
---------------------------------------------

Holy Mary Mother of Crap! 750mb sax....???? WOW! I'd love to hear that.

Squeak

I think today i'm not going to sleep

....

[This message has been edited by Craig_UK (edited 06-26-2006).]

A Tip:

Dear CRAIG, from my last post's ( more than 3 week�s ) I post a demo sound about my MS. I was request one yourself demo in last post�s. Just not response from you, Now I request another time just one demo about your keyboard. Thanks.. Best regard�s. Filipe Tomas

Well didn't take long for this one to digress into a pissin' contest once again ..... did it? What a waste of time all around.

To add to all this .....

1. I am wondering why Domenik keeps slamming the Tyros? Compared to any of the "real" big boys, the MS has miles to go IMO. Great concept, but lacks cohesiveness in fruition, direction and marketing.

2. Having followed this for many months with interest, I still cannot see how the MS has any advantage what so ever over a great controller for less than $1000., a laptop/desktop and plug ins, all of which I already have.

I'm out of this one at this point, next time I'll know better than to waste my time contributing to this.

How disappointing,
Terry

------------------
jam on,
Terry
http://www.artisans-world.com/

Here's what I think the problem really is. Yes it most often turns into a pissin contest, but the MediaStation is a horse of a different color. From what I see Donenik's MediaStation is the "NEW HYBRID". We're talking synth with arranger funtions--along with some other killer features. It seems to be what many have been asking for. However, it's fairly new, and possibly needs more testing or whatever, but I appluad Domenik for this.

I'd love to have a MediaStation because it has combined EVERYTHING I want in a keyboard. I just can't afford it.

So Domenik.. All I say is Rock on Man! Not everyone is going to like a keyboard especially considering how subjective certain things are. I love the Mediastation and would use one every day--I just can't afford one

**also keep in mind the language barrier here... Something meant to be harmless can be taken the wrong way**


Squeak

[This message has been edited by squeak_D (edited 06-23-2006).]

[This message has been edited by squeak_D (edited 06-23-2006).]

The convenience of a hardware arranger, with all the flexibility of software, but all in one box.
After a hard day at work, just switch on one button and play.
Gigging musicians have less to transport, less cable to connect, and reduced setup time.
BTW. Time is a very scarce resource for a lot of people.

Bill

i dont know whats going on here but none of the link to the mediastation demos work on my computer so i cant tell for myself what the demos sound like

second ,am i write in understanding that the VST plugins that dom has demoed were not actually played through th mediastation ? I wont to be absolutely clear on this. Are the demos featuring vst pluggins like the colossus etc actually demos of the mediastation using these pluggins or just a sample from the manufacturer or some other sample not actially demoed on the instrument. You see i still have a problem with Dom saying what he instrument can do and what it will sound like if the instrument itself is NOT being played. Just clear this up for me Dom and let me know what the problem is with your website

ok , managed to here the samples now. They are all very good. Funnily enough i actually think that the tyros had the better drum sound but they were all very useable. So whats the point of this test then ?

For the life of me I don't understand how this demo turned into another pissin' contest. This is a great demo, and from my perspective it sounds fantastic. The midi is clean, fresh, the drums are outstanding, and from every aspect this demonstrated the quality that can be produced if someone takes the time to produce a quality midi file.

I'm outa' here!

Gary

------------------
Travlin' Easy

Dang it Domenik, why did you go and censor yourself. Geesh, I'm pretty open minded when it comes to the Mediastation. Why let a few yahoos spoil the fun.

Also, does anyone have that MIDI file Domenik posted? I wanted to hear it 1st hand on my T2.



------------------
Al Giordano
www.al-giordano.com

Tyros 2, Yamaha P-250, Korg Triton Extreme 76, Roland VK8-M, DW Collectors Series Drums

I have to agree with Gary, this did take a fast U-turn.... I think the midi was quite nice, and Domenik's Mediastation has come a long way. I still say it's the "Hybrid" we've all been wanting and talking about (synth/arranger)...

Squeak

I do agree that the mediastation is what a lot of people was waiting for. An arranger/synth....very interesting, that would be the absolute board.
BUT the thing is that the Lionstracs is spoiling everything its self. First of all they had to be more carefull with the people, and with this forum that it's worldwide known, and especially with people that they love their boards...
If you want to convince me to buy your board, DON'T blame my Tyros,roland,Ketron find an other way to do IT.

I think it's missing something from Liontracs and this is not a good board but a new MANAGMENT DIRECTOR

regards
KeybG

If for no other reason, I would not buy a Mediastation, due to the way it's representatives have acted on this forum and their continued amateurish attempts at representing it to the public with their demos.

Terry

------------------
jam on,
Terry
http://www.artisans-world.com/

I agree with you that every of us know own keyboard the best. If we play on severally keyboards from one company, we know sounds of this keyboard in the best way. If somebody wants to convince us on other way is this not good and we fight for our side.
Many of you in this forum want only to convince that your keyboard is good.
I had played and tested a lot keyboards and I can tell that they are all good for some intention.

For my intention is idea of new better sound and open system the best. Not GM and sound closed. But for somebody who want only play with GM midi files and for fun without any adrenalin of good making of song (without personalization) needs something else.

I�m having now LIONSTRACS X76 for less than two months. I�m having every day some new ideas for develop my personality.

People with this fresh idea are only wants to convince you on thinking for future. They don�t want to tell that are other keyboards bad. But some of forum members challenge. I saw many critics here that made so bad thinking.

Open your mind once more. This system is future of us keyboard players. In next two years will come out all big companies with same idea and than you will all say only good things on that. When new company as LIONSTRACS is only making those kinds of keyboards is story different.

Don�t be closed for new idea as dinosaur.

Best regards.

I love this concept and when one of the major players comes out with one, I am sure it will be a playable useable keyboard out of the box, Mediastation is not from what I have seen. It seems to be a never ending work in progress that was brought to market before it was ready to be brought.

The other problem I really see with Linux is that being an open system it like the MS has no-one central core focusing the efforts. Instead there are people all over the world doing bits and pieces as they feel like it and stopping when they get bored with a project. In short for me although Linux may in fact be a great o/s, it's more tailored to computer geeks that want to play...... I don't.
Terry



------------------
jam on,
Terry
http://www.artisans-world.com/

MEDIASTATION is out of the box NOW not in two years.

But every day is something new better and faster and sounds greater. Same as OS Windows and LINUX developers are working on new tuning.

Also major players are every day changing something in OS. I thing MEDIASTATION is ready for market. But question is: If are users ready to change mind and thing in other way. One keyboard is having more modules. I �m playing with 8 modules inside: B4, Orchestral, Halion, SC, Rhodes, GM-internal, Linux sampler, Kontakt. Sorry but I forgot that library of VST effects is so big that I can tell you that here is thing really crazy. I don�t need rack of 24, 48 places for modules. I�m having only one keyboard MS X76. That is all. Connecting between is fast as change to new sound with all presets.

Linux is also making progress every day. Here are not only people who start with something and after that they stop with idea. No all is open for other who wants to finish some work of course if it needs that. You can see on web that they are having really good ideas. Here is law �don�t crack�. But MS found all solutions in LINUX so far that now is all working also windows programs. (Thanks to .wine)

Folks,

Sorry, I saw this thread too late to actually hear the samples which had precipitate this whole brouhaha. It is regrettable to see this happen. This is the reason why abrasive, offensive posts by some members spoil the experience for everybody.

I can recall Craig's negative experience with the Mediastation, but it seems that Domnik did the honorable thing and gave Craig a full refund. I am not sure if any other manufacturer would do that. I know if I buy a car sight unseen, and then don't like it, I could shake my fists in anger and disappointment for a long time, but I'd never get my money refunded. It seems, however, that instead of buying himself some good will, Domenik ended up with a case of vindictive sour grapes. Had he not given Craig a refund, at least he would have ended up with a sale - I can't imagine the amount of negative posts towards him being any greater.

This should be of concern to all of us, because at least here in the US many cities do not have full-service arranger dealerships, and are not likely to hear a keyboard first-hand. While the direct-sales approach is the one that a smaller manufacturer might adopt to reach out to a dispersed market, Craig's post-refund behavior makes it unlikely for Liontracs or anybody else to try this approach.

Having said that, I believe a part of skepticism stems from the fact that most of us have never heard a Mediastation. Seeing a well-produced video demo would put to rest some of our doubts (not that you can't fool people with video, but it would be much more believable).

The one thing that Liontracs is sorely lacking is a good marketing leader, who can dedicate his time to promoting the product in the marketplace, and focus the activities of the developers in a particular direction.



Terry,

you already mentioned that you don't benefit from the offering that Mediastation is putting on. Since you don't care about portability and good user interface for the software-based solution, this is probably not going to be a big loss for Liontracs.

However, to me the behavior of the Liontracs representatives plays like that of the techies, who are excited about their product, even though in their minds it is more advanced than in its physical embodiment. Being a software engineer myself, I can spot this among the Liontracs folks. While this is not a proper way to project your product onto the marketplace, I can't fault them for it, any more than I could fault a child for getting excited about a new toy - that's what they do.

To me, the actions of other manufacturers are much more offensive - those of the established companies (I won't name names), that supposedly monitor the posts on this forum, and still end up producing for us, the live arranger players, keyboards that force us to use the touchscreens and behemoths that weigh nearly 50 lbs, while still giving us only 61 keys to play on.

To me, that's reall gall.

Regards,
Alex

.

[This message has been edited by Craig_UK (edited 06-26-2006).]

Craig,

What is "summise"?

We only know what you told us in your posts. Perhaps if you had told us the rest of the story (if there is indeed more to it), we would know more.

However, repeated attacks on Liontracs, whose instrument you no longer own, nor have played in the last year since returning your unit, tell us nothing but the fact that you tend to hold a grudge against Liontracs for a very long time.

Your acrid posts have added little to the discussion of this thread, but by frightening Domenik away and deprived me (and others) of the opportunity to read his posts and hear the samples.

Regards,
Alex

[This message has been edited by Alex K (edited 06-26-2006).]

I have to agree with Alex. It has been a while since the Mediastation was in your posession. I too was very interested in where this board has come since your incident. I think it's the "hybrid" I've been waiting for (synth and arranger in one).

Hopefully he'll jump back in.. Does anyone have his personal email?

Squeak

from what i have read of Doms posts he gave as good as he got. I dont think he left because of craigs posts.

His feelings probably got hurt because it was not just Craigs comments about his experience with MS but others who dont like Doms style of marketing which seems to be about putting down every other manufacturers instrument .

"BUT the thing is that the Lionstracs is spoiling everything its self. First of all they had to be more carefull with the people, and with this forum that it's worldwide known, and especially with people that they love their boards...
If you want to convince me to buy your board, DON'T blame my Tyros,roland,Ketron find an other way to do IT.
I think it's missing something from Liontracs and this is not a good board but a new MANAGMENT DIRECTOR"

or

"If for no other reason, I would not buy a Mediastation, due to the way it's representatives have acted on this forum and their continued amateurish attempts at representing it to the public with their demos"

I hope the gentlemen above dont mind me qouting them.There was nothing offensive in what they said. They are my sentiments too to a large degree. Dom brought a lot of heat into the debate but not a whole lot of light.

I am sure he will be back again under another "name" singing the praises of the Mediastation and maybe one day he will have the goods to back up what has the potential to be a great board.

I have to agree with you.

This constructive thread started off good. It is only when Craig came and rehashed all his personal dislikes for the Mediastation this thread took a turn for the worst.

No manufacturer I am sure would stick around here to get a constant public bad mouthing of their product from a disgruntled passed owner.

For the record, my post was after that Dom has gone.....(therefore my opinion didn't count for leaving the forum)and yes i still bealive that the mediastation would be the absolute board. Maybe the direct contact with the "clients" it's not the best way to promote a new product. IMHO, Dom finally, did the right think by leaving the forum beacuse the issue could had gone a lot worse...

KeybG


My new logo"MAKE MUSIC NOT WAR"

I am going to sound like a politician.

I don't find error in Craig or Domenik..

As Alex mentioned..Words spoken are not without emotion...Craig had a negative experience, that in the beginning , he did not blast Dom, but said graciously that he appreciated the way he made good[Dom's word was kept]..

Domenik is as Alex said...a Technical person, with a desire to make his product the best it can be...
I do not see his words as a knock against the other manufacturers, but even though it may appear that way...he is trying to explain the pros and cons of all the instruments..Maybe if we could speak Italian we could have a better understanding of his purpose , in his words..

Personally, I have conducted business with Domenik,,going back to 98/99..

He has helped me with installations of his products, for my customers[music store].

He has always been respectful to me..

Let me say the same about Craig..Sure he is opinionated as we all are sometimes..

Most of his comments are from his own experiences..

I believe we [Craig and I] have disagreed on certain things, but have always had a mutual respect...Of course that may be because we both own G1000's..

I too would hope Domenik continues to post..that we can watch and understand the development of the "future" designs..

BTW, Craig, I see your pulling a Donny[deleted post]...

There's just something about the fact that this is a public forum that seems to get people aggravated.

If I were friends with Craig and he had a bad experience with a company and decided to tell me about it whenever we discussed that company, then by all means! I'd want to hear his opinions. Because he's posting his opinions in a public place for all to see, it becomes much more than an exchange between friends.

Personally, I value everyone's opinions, especially when they are constructive and we can all learn from them. I certainly don't blame Craig for posting his feelings and experiences. I value being able to use his point-of-view when making my own decisions about products.

It is a shame Domenik seems to have left us again though. I too was enjoying hearing how the Mediastation has progressed. I'd love to see them give the 'big three' a run for their money!

Just my two cents...

I think that we all can together create new future.

Thanks to negative criticism we know many things better. If somebody come out with fresh idea is also good. Thanks all that are having some fresh news.

I listened to new demo symphony of MS. This is sounds really good. All that is possible to make wit MS I know because I�m preparing new records on this keyboard. Not on PC. I�m having all what I need inside. I had GB of HD and CD with me before. Now is only one keyboard with 200 GB of HD and is working with phones and for my pleasure.

We all are arranging sound, styles and songs. If someone is who is only playing without of give personality inside, than he is not musician. All styles are worth nothing if they are not something of us. Small change makes personal filling. This made for me Lionstracs with big foot. I can feel new sound. I can make all what I know in this moment. But I�m learning with keyboard everyday. Not only on start. Sound can be every day more powerful, more real.

That is real life.

I feel very compelled to write this. I try to avoid conflict on this board as much as possible. I get very disappointed at people sometimes. Maybe I expect too much.

I was taught that "Instead of complaining about the darkness, Light a candle". Why do people continually post negatives about everything, everyone? Do you know what power you hold in your hands if you give someone a positive outlook on something, or a compliment, or a nice pat on the back?

In Domenick's and Craig's case, why can't they look past their differences and be positive. With Craig actually helping Domenick make a better product in a positive constructive manner. And Domenick listening carefully to one of his dis-satisifed customers and trying to win back Craig as a customer. And everyone else helping Domenick try to understand what arranger keyboard players want in a keyboard instead of just outright dismissing his product.

Can't we all be just a tad more positive?

I, for one, would love to have Domenic back. Please don't forget that english isn't his first language. Also, one can't blame him for being so passionate about his product. Him being so passionate would drive him to do better which can only be beneficial, n'est pas? One can find quite a lot of posts on the forum where members praise their instrument and are quite negative towards other brands.
ONE bad experience doesn't mean a thing to me. If it were we'd either all be bachelors or in the priesthood.
As stated in earlier posts, Domenic did give a refund and it takes a good person to do that.
I believe that, even if Lionstracs does perform as good as he says, some will go for it and others won't just like some opt for Roland and others for Yamaha or whatever brand. People have different tastes and nothing's going to change that.
Please note that I am not blaming anyone and neither am I pointing an accusing finger at anyone. Just wish we can get along and don't get so jumpy.
English isn't my first language either. It's my fifth so if my words come over the wrong way...my sincerest apologies.

Taike

------------------
Khoi huk ngam sud tee huk kon diow.

I think it is one thing for forum members to post here in less than perfect English (and often very entertaining
!), but Domenik makes a huge mistake, and one that he has been advised against in the past, here, by posting as a manufacturer's representative here in less than perfect English.

For God's sake, Domenik, hire someone who speaks English well, and also knows how to communicate with potential CUSTOMERS......... and don't post another word here!

Domenik has, in the past, probably done more damage to Lionstracs by posting his poorly worded claims (and remember the 'free Mediastation for style development debacle?) than a buggy OS and incomplete feature set........

We all realize the POTENTIAL of these software-based instruments, but no-one is going to dive off this very expensive cliff until you can prove that A), they are more stable and crash-free than hardware arrangers from the big 3, and B), they are more cost effective than the competition. I haven't heard of either, yet........

And, as Roland and others are finding to their cost, it doesn't matter what whizz-bang feature, or jaw-dropping sounds you have on-board, if the STYLES that it comes with don't make Tyros2 owners all commit hari-kari out of jealousy, you are fighting an uphill battle. Few arranger players (from what I read here) really want to spend a whole bunch of time tweaking a VERY complicated keyboard to sound good. The whole point of arrangers is, you take them out of the box and start playing, in front of friends or customers, IMMEDIATELY. And it had damn well better sound good (and not crash!) or you are out of a job or lose all your friends!!

I know how hard it is to get R&D money in this economy, especially with how small the keyboard market is (compared to laptops or MP3 players, for instance), but selling a product before it's ready can come back to bite you in the ass, as you are seeing here.

Come back and wow us all when it's ready......... and hire a REAL PR man..........

http://www.synthzone.com/ubbs/Forum37/HTML/010918-2.html

the same story, the same protagonists, the same suggestions from the same people.

DIKI,
you told Domenik once last year, you told him a second time this year. The same thing.... let's see how many repetitions will it take.

ALEX K,
when I was referring to "techs" in my post in the above link, I had software developers in my mind, as I too work in a software company.
It seems techs are the same all over the world.

Craig,
please don't bash Domenik any more.

Domenik,
please realise that Diki, AlexK and me, are trying to help. Each with his own words, in his own way. Learn from past mistakes. I hope we have good news from you soon.

Let's all hope next year will be a better one.

Trident

[This message has been edited by trident (edited 06-27-2006).]

Every keyboard is from box. Also last �new keyboards� of big three or other producers are on start like prototype. Then come out new versions of hardware and more complications. We are satisfied with that what we are having. Sometimes we curse and swear but than we are satisfied because we found some new styles sounds e.t.c.
Same story was with PC. First software and hardware was disaster. Today are some problems, but are fewer than on start.
Also this keyboard you can play as keyboard from box. All is prepared for play you are having less problems than on other keyboards. It is not complicated. For all things are there simple help (English). You don�t need for this manual, because you are having all on screen. Simply type button for help and all will be on hand. You can load inside midi files, mp3, styles and start with playing without problems that keyboard sounds bad.
Keyboard is in start as simple arranger. Inside of keyboard is different. If you know system you can arrange what you want. This is main thing that open you mind in totally new way of thinking.
If you are on start poor player without enthusiasms than after some weeks you will be in keyboards for hours and hours because this is interesting keyboard not keyboard for fun and only with 128 sounds and 128 styles.
I�m inviting you Domenik to come here on board again and tell people more about this keyboard, because you know more than we all users of keyboard. You must look forward for future of keyboard players not for future of some who are expressing their side of opinion. Constructive talk is better than if all are agree with product. If here will be more people like you will be more good things made.

Well, I will try to post againg, but if I see contine attack to me, then I will leave totally again this forum.

P.S.: I don't have nothing bad with the T2, you know well, If you read my old post I was the first to tell that the T2 have the best styles and some sounds, but I prefer the Korg sounds and from G-70 the professional layout design.
I don't want to fight with nobody and of course with the others brands, because I know they personally very well. ( I'm in this world more than 11 years now, Fran Carango know me from long time
I will never Stolen two Cents there, Craig was REFUND totally to the last Cent.
1 Year ago honestly the MS OS Linux was not perfect but now, with the help of the UK company, 64studio.com, the MS is much stable and we had start to sell around the world.
Richard was the first US guy that received the X-88 and another 4 SZ member have the MS too. They of course dont want to post because of the continue negative attack.

So... we will see what will happen here and when i have time I try to post again.
Domenik

I sent an e-mail to Dom yesterday before his posting above so hopefully he has had time to read it and will continue to post on this great forum.

Quote "1 Year ago honestly the MS OS Linux was not perfect but now, with the help of the UK company, 64studio.com, the MS is much stable and we had start to sell around the world"

But one year ago you WERE trying to sell us on the Mediastation, and it wasn't ready......... It's an uphill battle to tell us the thing is "much stable" now, (do you mean 'much more stable' or 'completely stable'? This is why you need English speakers.....) and have us completely believe you.

I have nothing personal against Lionstracs or Domenik, I am just advising him about how to do LESS damage to his company's reputation (hopefully taken as CONSTRUCTIVE criticism - I'm not saying 'you suck' I'm saying 'your English and presentation skills need improvement'). I eagerly look forward to the day these software/computer hybrid machines live up to their promise, and I will be definitely be buying one when they do, but telling us it's ready NOW if it isn't only damages the concept, and has and will make acceptance THAT much more difficult when it finally comes to fruition.

Domenik admires the soundset from the Tyros2, and the ease of operation of the G70. He'd do well to try and make his keyboard the equal of those two before expecting much from the market........

At least the return of Domenik means that he has calmed down a little,
Craig has publicly stated that he is alright now.

Right, let's get to work.

Domenik, would you please have the good will to post again, some midi files playing on the mediastation?

If the aformentioned files could have the qualities expressed by Esh (some piano, some saxes, etc), so much the better.

and if Domenik could furnish 2 versions...one with the GM sounds and the other one tweaked to the best sounds available on the mediastation

and if the guys around here don't bring petrol with them when writing comments, and if Domenik does not explode when reading those posts, we could at least realise where mediastation stands compared to the competition, and maybe Domenik will have praise, or at least constructive criticism or food for thought about what could he do for his instrument and his company, for free.

So, Domenik...
So, guys

Are you interested?

Diki
In the MS 1 year ago was not implemented the right arrange, the USA developer cant make it working, so we lost about 10 months.A new French developer had made the totally new arranger midi with audio Sync and now is working fine. Before the MS was able to play good the midifiles and Audio stuff.

The MS now is COMPETELY STABLE IF will be used the MS OS UI: arranger, players, sounds...
But for your know, we use Linux and for the VST plugins we depend under Wine. http://www.winehq.com/
This mean that NOT all the VST are working and the VST host can crash, this only because wine cant loading the .dll interface.
So, in this way the MS is still NOT perfect, but this is not our fault and Lionstracs developers can not fix.
All the VST working are listed here: http://ladspavst.linuxaudio.org/
anyway, when you have loaded some VST like the B4 and Kontak2, I think you have enough..

About the MS OS and linux you well that the MS can NEVER have one END, because under PC is possible developing all what we want.
Or next step:
Arranger that will play looped wav files without the sync with the Midi tracks. This mean that you can save in one folder any lenght of wav files and play it in realtime like one DJ sampler, with always the possibility to change the BPM, Timesctrach.

arranger Score/Seq editor midi+audio where you can records by the MS your own styles, without use one external sequencer or Import from the EMC style converter.

X-Kore Linux, the new Lionstracs tool that able you to load and Hyperlink the all the VST plugins instruments under the MS keys and then you can recall all this VST just pressing ONE key.

Multi Score editor, for open the notation from any midi tracks and project in the internal TFT, external monitor or Plasma TV.

Integated in OUR interface Video M-player, where you are able to cue the Video and project the same video where you want.

Do you have understand now why the MS will NEVER completed?
All this new features need time, BUT this do NOT mean that you have to change the MS AND the MS in this right moment is STABLE for play all your stuff.

Let me know if you have understand me.

MS is really stable. But we must be careful and prepare all before. This is not problem for new midi file, style and ordinary things that all keyboards are having. But for VST you need time to complete library before and than you can play with this VST more stable as with MS GM. (Never load VST on stage. This is my rule.) You need only to check if it is working on MS or not. But all �big� are working. I test many of them. Native instrument: Kontakt, B4 and B4 II, ABSYNTH, FM7, REAKTOR, AKOUSTIK PIANO, ELEKTRIK PIANO, INTAKT, I'm really angry sometimes with Steinberg on LINUX are working HALION, Hypersonic, Groove Agent, but some crash are possible with Virtual guitarist not problem to open problem is with playing of rig. About effect I didn�t had problems. All effect what I tested works.

I�m interesting on KORE. Tell us more about this developing. This is LINUX application. But it works as port between LINUX and all VSTs.

[This message has been edited by Magica Alfa (edited 06-28-2006).]

I think the Mediastation is awsome, and if some of you atually emailed Dom, would be surprised at the price he'll offer one to you for I emailed him the other day regarding a few things... He's a nice guy.., but I think the language barrier sometimes makes communictaion a litte difficult with him and other members.

I'd love to have a Mediastation, but after buying my other equipment I know the wife would stuff me in the trunk of my Lincoln and we'd take a short trip somewhere

Squeak

I think the easiest way to look at the Mediastation, is to treat it as a controller keyboard and computer, (In one box) therefore what sounds you get out, will be totally dependent on what instruments THE USER loads in. (Like virtually all computers it has its own internal sounds, but whether you use them or not, is down to user preference)
If you look at it from this point of view, it should make it easier to understand.
Hope this helps.

Bill

---------------------------------------------
treat it as a controller keyboard and computer, (In one box) therefore what sounds you get out, will be totally dependent on what instruments THE USER loads in. (Like virtually all computers it has its own internal sounds, but whether you use them or not, is down to user preference)
---------------------------------------------

Well said, you couldn't have put it any better. This board lets you add what you want (isn't this what a lot of us have been asking for as well), plus it comes with decent sounds, but the power is adding what you want. It's a computer with a killer controller (that has ARRANGER functions).

With the Mediastation couldn't you essentially load in VST's and substitute those great voices into the styles be it user or preset?

There's just so many possibilites with a keyboard like this.

Squeak

I've yet to see any high end keyboard that was completely stable and needed no OS updates out of the box. I previously owned a Yamaha 9000 Pro and the early software versions were absolutely atrocious. I didn't see people bashing Yamaha for releasing a keyboard that had numerous bugs and believe me the 9000 Pro wasn't the only product Yamaha released that had serious problems. The reality is almost every manufacturer releases a product knowing full well there are bugs in the software. Manufacturers hope the end user will never find the bugs and most often that is the case. Its when bugs are found that the true test of a manufacturer is at hand. What sets manufacturers apart is their ability to support future software and bug fixes and listen to their end users. So far Lionstracs has done an excellent job updating the Mediastation and Domenik is continually working on new software, sounds, and features which is more than Yamaha ever did for me. The Mediastation is by no means unstable and I've yet to have a problem with mine.

The main reason to own an open ended keyboard is that it can load and play sounds and software from many other companies greatly expanding your sound and style palette. Unlike a closed system where you are fixed to what the manufacturer decides most people want and many times those sounds are weak. The Mediastation has some great GM/GS sounds and some that I consider average but that holds true for any keyboard. If you judge a keyboard simply by GM/GS sounds which I think are horrible in most keyboards, you are definitely limiting yourself. When was the last time you purchased a keyboard where every sound was incredible?

I personally love my Wersi Abacus Duo Pro and Lionstracs X-76 because I can make them sound like whatever I want. If I need better strings, pianos, or drums, I simply load new samples in. Its not until you spend time with an open ended keyboard that you realize the incredible potential they have. So far I've not seen or heard any other arranger or workstation that has been released that has the same capabilities as the Wersi or Lionstracs. Korg did a very good job with the Oasys but it lacks most of the abilities of the Wersi or Lionstracs. If Korg would incorporate the features of the PA1X Pro into the Oasys and expand its sequencing and recording capabilities, then they'd have a serious contender on their hands. Who knows if Korg will ever consider doing so?

I know I've posted this before but I stress that unless you've personally heard a Wersi or Lionstracs in person you can't understand how good they truly sound. My suggestion, try and hear one in person rather than postulate what it sounds from an MP3 demo which can't convey what the instrument truly sounds like.

Domenik, I didn't get to hear your test files before the links were removed. Could you repost those links again for those that didn't get to hear them?

Ensareyou,
I totally agree with you. That's the whole purpose of an open ended keyboard. That's what makes the Mediastation such a good product in my opinion.

Yes Dom and his crew have done a great job at fixing problems too.

Seriously guys talk to Dom, you'd be surprised at what he'll sell you one for.

Squeak

right now that we have all settled down can you do this simple test for me Dom. Pick the same midi file that you chose originally and this time instead of using GM sounds, substitute them with the best VST sounds that you have available. Then let us see how it sounds . Then i suggest the rest of us use the same midi file and substitute the sounds with the most suitable sounds that we can find through the manufacturers stock sounds or the best samples that you have bought or imported on your korg,roland, yammy, ketron, genesys keboard and post them here. The boast of the " open system" and the freedom to choose from the best sounds around has been the unique selling proposition of liontracs {and wersi} since i first came accross it. This simple test should demonstrate to everyone whether this boast has any substance in it at all. Does access to all the best sounds from separate manufacturers equate to a better sounding musical ensemble than the existing capabilities of proprietory "closed" systems. Does this seem like a reasonable test ?

A good idea, but the instruments chosen will be the player�s personal choice, and may not be yours. (Just like some people prefer a Steinway Grand, were as others prefer a Bosendorfer Grand)
Also, you may not be aware of this but a lot of the scores in films these days are not played by orchestras, but are done in the studio with a keyboard and computer, using VST instruments and samples from various manufactures.
Enjoy whatever you play

Bill

Posted again on TOP the test files in question.

I will only records from GM/GS mediastation soundbank, I donn't care to promote the other company with the VST and Giga.
You can records yourself and test in your PC, because we know well how this plugins/giga are working.
If we start with VST/giga, then the possibility are infinitly....

I have refrained from posting to a Lionstracs topic before now - This is because before long the topic starts to turn into a holy war. However - I'm very pleased to see that certain people have now decided to continue with this post and I admire them for being big enough to put their differences behind them.

I for one would love to see a Mediastation type open solution that gives me all the quality and features I currently need but can be expanded to give practically anything that I may require in the future.

I think the concept is great - VST instruments and effects are fantastic and the multi sampled Giga sound libraries are amongst the best. But - I dont want to cart around a laptop and have to build the system myself. I have read Frank R's writings with interest and was even tempted to go down that route myself but I'm no techie and I'd probably strangle myself with a midiyoke - I just want to sit down and play.

However - I'm also a very safe guy and all the chatter that has gone on using words like "unstable" or "almost there" really worries me. I personally need to see a number of endorsements before I splash out on a Mediastation.

So I wish Dom good luck - It can't be a lot of fun trying to compete with the big guys with all their advertising budgets but if they all stick their heads in the sand the MediaStation could emerge a real winner and leader in this hybrid keyboard/PC approach.

Lionstracs probably haven't got a UK distributor so it is really difficult to see, hear or play their product unless I go to Frankfurt for the musikmesse.

If what Dom says is true and some of this forum's members are now owners then I would gladly visit any of these who are in this country to see for myself.

Keep up the good work Dom

Regards - Keith

Keith,
I agree with you statement "I for one would love to see a Mediastation type open solution that gives me all the quality and features I currently need but can be expanded to give practically anything that I may require in the future.

I think the concept is great - VST instruments and effects are fantastic and the multi sampled Giga sound libraries are amongst the best. But - I dont want to cart around a laptop and have to build the system myself. I have read Frank R's writings with interest and was even tempted to go down that route myself but I'm no techie and I'd probably strangle myself with a midiyoke - I just want to sit down and play."

As a matter of fact that was exactly how I felt when I began asking questions on this forum about soft synths. From a conveneince stand point I liked the idea of an "all in one" vs. a componet system for live performance.

I can definitely say that the Mediastation has not disappointed me at all!
It is completely stable as I have performed on it live about 9 or 10 times with no problems, other than trying to see the screen outdoors in bright direct sunlight.

The X88-Pro plays great and sounds great. I like the Steinway B1 giga piano best.

I wish there were more places to try it out, but if any SZ member wants to visit me in the U.S. I would be glad to demo the Mediastation for them. Maybe I can make the next SZ Jam in my area as well. I live in SC.
Richard

i dont get it. When Dom suggested that he play a midi file using gm sounds and everyone else posted doing he same , didnt they all sound different and wasnt the opinion of the listener as to which sounded best subjective ? The test i am suggesting wil be just as subjective however ....

It is the proposition of wersi and mediastaion that the ability to use "he best sounds" vst pluggins etc in the one instrument in aranger styles "should" sound better than a "closed " system with just the manufacturers sounds . Surely this is a great way to demonstrate that even if the listeners opinion is subjective, when is someones taste in sound any other way ? At least this test would give the "open system" generation of instruments to show what they are talking about rather than " talk" what they are talking about . Lets see how easy it is to load up vst drums,basses,guitars and strings in one style and then switch to another fluidly without hiccups, lets see how seamlessley it handles OTS changes in a performance setting. Anyone can wait 10 minutes and load up a stunning piano sample but how well does the sound technology interact with the hardware/software ? Come on Dom and Abacus. I have been dieing to hear what can actually be done with an open system arranger compared to a proprietory based instrument. Are you guys up for it ?

"Also, you may not be aware of this but a lot of the scores in films these days are not played by orchestras, but are done in the studio with a keyboard and computer, using VST instruments and samples from various manufactures."


Thats exactly my point Bill. They are produced , mixed and recorded in a studio by professional sound engineers to ensure that the instruments compliment each other and dont clash.My concern ( which has not been allayed yet) is that so far everytime someone mentions VST instruments on this sie, they place a demo of a professionally done sample by the manufacturer on the site and then say "this is what it would or could sound like on my arranger keyboard " but not once yet have i actually heard an arranger song or clip using vst pluggins played on this open style instrument and my mind keeps wondering why ?

And if anyone has actually used an arranger with multiple vst plugins in the styles and posted on here , then i must have missed it and would like to be pointed in the right direction to hear it.

Spalding
For loading and setup the VST is really easy under MS. Now here is late, but tomorrow i will take one small video for you guys, where you see booting the MS.
I start to play the sounds, styles, Vst and Giga, WITHOUT use the PS2 Mouse and keyboard, like a normally embedded keyboard.
Before the video, maybe you will understand the system how is working under the MS.

I touch the Kontakt Icon in the touchpanel and after 4-5 seconds the Kontakt2 VST is UP. Then I just load the sound library that i like. http://www.lionstracs.com/site/images/gui/kontakt2.png
I press the key JACK and it will shown me the all Jack connection available. In this case i see the Kontakt in the writable clients: http://www.lionstracs.com/site/images/gui/kontakt3.png
I touch the icon Kontakt and then the icon Arranger in the Readable clients, then on bottom left give the key: CONNECT. I touch it and the Midi arranger will automatically connected to the Kontakt.
Midi connection now are ready to work.

Now I have to connect the Kontakt Audio outs to the MS outputs: http://www.lionstracs.com/site/images/gui/kontakt4.png
you see there right side the Kontakt connected to the MS outputs, I touch the two icons and then i press CONNECT.
Now the Kontakt is ready to send the Audio digital data to the MS outputs.

I start one style and the midi will sent to the kontakt too.
Of course you have first to loading in Kontakt the GM library for the all 16 channels, like a normally sampler.

Another example then is to open new VST.
I touch in the touchpannel the VST.dll file and will run UP: http://www.lionstracs.com/site/images/gui/kontakt5.png
in this example you will see that i have opened:
Organ VST B4, 2 Linuxsampler GIGA, VST synth Miffi, VST MinimogueVA, VST synth Moppeltron.
I have only to touch the Readable VST to the Writable MS OUTS and then: Connect.
The MS Midirouter have more 4 Midi AUX, where you can connect the VST and then you can switch just by pressing one MS key.

AFTER you have understand how is working Jack Audio connection kit, you will be able to make ANY type of digital connections, Audio and MIDI of course. IN to Out to ANY VST, Engine, connectors... ALL
So..more powerfull of this sytem you can find under MAC OSX, because they use the Linux Jack connection kit too. http://jackaudio.org/ http://qjackctl.sourceforge.net/qjackctl-ss1.html

Just wait till tomorrow, then you will see in the video and How is easy to remap/edit one sound style too.

What I don�t understand is why is there an assumption that there is more work with getting different VSTs to sound right in a style and that professional arranger musicians just don�t have the skills to work with VSTs like the multitude of other professional electronic musicians?

When you create a new style or when you revoice a style on a closed keyboard system, the user still has to have a concept of sound balancing and how to make the style sound good. Even for live playing, when you set-up registrations, you have to make sure that you choose the right melody voice and that the volume, panning, effects and eq are just right. Why is it any different with VSTs on an open keyboard system?
The rules of good electronic musicianship apply both for open and close keyboard systems. The major difference between the 2 systems is that one gives you life long ongoing possibilities and enjoyment while the other gives you 2 years of pleasure.


If there is any problem it is probably not with the manufacturer of the open keyboard but probably the user.

Even on closed keyboard systems, the issue comes up with the sample loading feature. The Korg pa1x, Gem Genesys and the Yamaha Tyros all can load samples. I don�t know about the pa1x and the Tyros 2 but on the Genesys the samples can be used in songs and styles. If the outcome does not sound good, I can not blame the manufacturer of the keyboard I can only blame myself for not choosing the right samples, or if I purchase samples, the makers of the samples. And if it sounds good it is not because of the manufacturer but because of my electronic musical abilities. The manufacturer should be credited with having such a feature and for making the operation of the feature easy.


I am not trying to start an argument but just trying to understand the assumption that VSTs are harder for professional everyday electronic musicians to work with. All professional electronic musicians know what type of sounds they like to play and work with, and purchase them accordingly.
Lots of professional electronic musicians are using VSTs and sample sounds and doing so with ease. So why do professional arranger electronic musicians get the rap for being inferior musicians and not being able to use today�s music technology?

i hear what you are saying and i am certainly not implying that arranger keyboard players have less technical ability than anyone else. What i am saying is that theorising about what can possibly be done on an instrument is of no practical use to a potential customer ( i.e me !) if so far noone has DEMONSTRATED what can be done ! you cant sell a product based upon what you think it can do. You have to sell it on what it does. Here is a prime oportunity for Mediastation and Wersi to market the product properly by demonstrating what it can do instead of just talking about it! If it can do what the manufacturer says it can do, then simply do it ! that puts an end to all doubt to any potential users of the product.
I dont know if its just me but i think that the long threads going back and forth about the strengths/weaknesses of these products could have been settled a long time ago by simply demonstrating what the instrument is capble of instead of these pointles drawn out discusions. If its he instrument of the future, then i will considr it in the future but if it can do it all now.......see what i mean ?

Hello Spalding
Here�s an English guy who�s been using them for the last couple of years or more, they feature on his recordings Pavane and Aquarius, http://www.danielwatt.com/ also I notice there is a festival in Bewdley on the 4th July, you could give them a ring to see if they will let you in to have a listen. (It may be a closed festival though)
BTW Many Wersi Artists use Akai samples and VSTs both live and on recordings, (And have done so for many years) but you don�t notice because they integrate fully.
As I mentioned in a previous post, when my friend comes back off holiday I will see if I can get him to do some demos on his Scala using Akai samples and VSTs. Also check out to see if other Wersi artists are in your area, so that you can here the instruments close up. (Just do a quick search on the web)
Hope this helps.

Bill

Let's go back to the question asked in the subject of the thread:

The "sesibilita" and the "liberi" mp3's sound good, or is it just me?

I hadn't had the time to go AB using Hypersonic, but the sound pretty close to what I would expect fornm the Hypersonic GM module which to my ears is pretty good.
Opinions?

I can tell you that I'm doing with VST�s on MS.

I use them in simply way, but every time is all included as Mr. Dominik told you in one script (VST, sound in VST, connection to right VST-JACK and link to arranger style). This is faster way. Only one touch and you can play song with all prepared on your keyboard.

[This message has been edited by Magica Alfa (edited 06-30-2006).]

OOPS! Wrong thread!

[This message has been edited by trident (edited 07-04-2006).]