I see and read often that the weight of an instrument is nearly the most important quality. How to solve this problem?

The weight is only relevant if you need to move it often - gigging perhaps.
For home users such as myself it is not too relevant.
Keith

Over four years of lugging around one of Yamahas heaviest portable keyboards (PSR 9000) I can safely say it became a very big part of my decision to go out and play. At first you don't care because your so excited to have a new cool state of the art instrument. But later after you have to break it down, setup at your venue and then break it down and set it back up at home....it really does begin to take its toll on you. I got to where I didn't want to take it very often. Only weekend gigs or longer would push me into taking it. I didn't always have a nice concrete sidewalk or driveway to roll my board to the stage. Often it had to be packed a fairly long distance. After awhile the fifty plus pounds took its toll on my hands and my back. I would never say its the most important part of a keyboard, however it is something to really consider. After having a heavy board the Tyros 2 feels much lighter.
Just my 2 cents.

Regards,
Dennis L. Almond
aka...TwoNuts

Extremely important!! And could be a deal breaker.
But it is mostly relevant for gigging musicians. And to some extent home musicians also.

The fact is we are living in a mobile and portable world where things must be easily transportable. A lot of consumer products are becoming smaller, lighter and more portable. If some keyboards are going to be for home use then it could be considered a consumer product and should be made like other consumer products.

And of course, professional gigging musicians want and need light keyboards to move around to the different gigs we have to go to.

So I think that keyboard manufacturers must take the weight of the keyboard in to account when they are doing R and D for new products.

If I fall in love with the quality of voices and styles, I don't care if it weighs 100 lbs.
We should feel fortunate that today's technology gives us this at around 40 lbs.

Mark

How many have light KB's & 2 or 3 speakers that weigh twice as much to transport compare to years agao theres no KB today that even compares to what we lugged around equipment wise ....OUCH!!

solution?....
http://www.rocknrollercart.com/

[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 05-14-2006).]

I feel Dennis L. Almond is right on with his opinion. My kn7 falls into -- I love it less evrytime I carry it to a new gig.
It is not just the weight bt the shape, it's uncomfortable to carry, an amplifier of the same weight is not a problem.
If I were 6'3" and 220 pounds, it would not be a problem.

WE should not leave out the weight may be needed for protection. The case on my Kn7 is much stronger than the Tyros 2. Bebop once dropped his Kn7 in his motor home and was surprised to find no damage.

Having said that, I can't wait until I order my Tyros2.

Just my opioino, John C.

It isn't just the weight but how you handle it. I was careless the day I pulled a muscle in my back loading a heavy 88-note Kurzweil in it's flight case into a gig and I'm lucky the damage was temporary, but none the less it was the day I decided to switch to a lighter keyboard. Back injuries are career-threatening, expensive, and painful so no keyboard is worth the risk... yet "portable" keyboards in the 70lb range are not uncommon. It's hard to justify why a portable keyboard would weigh so much nowadays... home units are a different story. Personally I won't have anything for stage use over 50lbs and I'm kinda big and work out regularly.

The physical weight of a keyboard has absolutely nothing to do with it's quality of sound or construction. A good example of this can be readily seen when tape recorders first came on the market, many of which weighed nearly 100 pounds and sported huge reels holding inch-wide audio tape. Even at high speeds the recordings were noisy and required lots of editing and filtration to insure a good quality end product.

Today, tape recorders are essentially a thing of the past. They've been replaced by lightweight digital recorders that provide outstanding recording quality that is noise free. Some weigh less than 10 pounds and include an excellent, multi-channel mixer that's part of the package.

The same is now true with keyboards. I've read posts where individuals touted their keyboards as the best because the housing was made of heavy-guage steel. "Yep, I can drop this off a 10 store building, run over it with a truck and it will still play." You must be kidding! Why in the hell would anyone in their right mind want a keyboard that weighs 50 to 60 pounds? It will not play or sound any better than one that weighs 30 pounds, and if you play for a living, and lug the equipment around 7 days a week, you'll be damned glad your keyboard, amp, mixer, etc.. is made of lightweight material that's easy to transport.

If your keyboard never leaves the house, weight is of no consequence. If you hope to perform for a living, buy something that is lightweight, sounds great and has a user friendly operating system. Keyboards were never made to be dropped, banged around, slammed into walls, run over by a truck or pounded upon with your fist--they were meant to be played.

Cheers,

Gary

------------------
Travlin' Easy

If you have an X stand,how about fixing an end plate onto your keyboard stand so that when you have finished your gig, you tilt the board and stand together down onto your trolley,so now your board and stand is nearly verticle,close up the legs and away you go.To set up, have your board verticly on trolley lower legs into position and lever your board into horizontal. easy 8> )

remember the story of a lorry that got stuck under the bridge ,it held up traffic for hours,all the officials was saying if you move the lorry the bridge may collapse,if you put hydrolics under the bridge the lorry won,t be damaged so you can drive it out,but no-one would take the responsiblity of the best choice. A little boy said, WHY DON,T YOU LET THE AIR OUT OF THE TYRES OF THE LORRY and then both will be ok.



[This message has been edited by nardoni2002 (edited 05-14-2006).]

I have a love/hate relationship with the weight of my Roland FP5. It is a weighted key, 88-key instrument. I am a classically trained pianist and a gigging jazz musician. I love the feel of playing with the instrument. It affords me the opportunity to explore a wide range of expression in my playing. I hate lugging it around. On a gig, add to that a stand, amplification, cable/stuff bag and the hate just grows. Some people may say a cart is the solution. That helps if the gig is handicap-accessable all the way to the stage. If not, your language gets very colorful as you unload/reload the cart to get passed steps.

I use the softcase for the Yamaha S80 with this keyboard. It fits the Roland perfectly, has wheels and a strap. I can strap it to my back and wheel it and move it around hands-free. That part is easy. Lifting it in/out car and on/off stand at home and the stand at the gig is a little less fun. There has been plenty of times the keyboard sat in the case and not on my stand at home because I didn't feel like dealing with it or knew I had another gig coming up soon and would just have to pack it up again.

For the future I am looking at 61 keys for the main keyboard with a 2nd 88 key controller that I will use when needed. For me, in the perfect world, Yamaha comes out with a 76 key arranger. If I only played the keyboard at home, or took it out only on a very rare occasion, I wouldn't care about weight. Otherwise, it is of high priority.



[This message has been edited by RobertG (edited 05-14-2006).]

... and freak out the first time the keyboard falls off the trolley.

The idea is there,if you improvise i am sure you can find a way around it, the other alternative is to pay a wrestler to escort you,he he.

There are too many great choices to be carrying a 50 pound kb around. The first thing I look at is the weight. If it's too heavy, I don't consider it.
... and I am 6-5 and 250.
... with a bad back and wrist from toting this stuff for 35 years.
DonM

I've spent too many years in envy of fellow band members able to simply carry (in one hand) their music instrument to/from rehearsals & gigs, while I had to struggle carting around my 70+ lb keyboard, suffering back aches along the way to go back to that. Now that my keyboard transport weight is finally begining to inch in the direction of my non-keyboard gigging musician brothers and sisters, (Tyros2: 32 lbs) no longer am I willing to transport a keyboard over 40 lbs. Considering the fact that a keyboard's appropriately protective case can easily weigh 20+ lbs, a 49.6 lb keyboard like the Roland E80 with appropriate case will weigh 70+ lbs. In addition to weight, the keyboards dimensions (length/width & depth), bulkiness, and balance ergonomics, are other critically important transport factors to consider. It's far more difficult to manuever a 76 or 88 note long keyboard than a shorter 61 note one, and if the majority of the keyboard's weight rests on one end only, this makes it more difficult to manuever still. Balancing keyboard sound quality, with transport weight and size (61 vs 76-88 keys) are important considerations for the gigging musician. - Scott

With composites getting lighter and stronger there really is no need to build 50 lb. plus keyboards anymore. But the manufacturers are still using the heavier composites in many cases as we saw Roland do with the E-80. Even with 4 speakers it didn't have to be 50 lbs. in my opinion. I mean we're talking about a 61 key Arranger not an 88 key behemoth. Roland apparently didn't think it was necessary to consider weight when they made the E-80. And if the E-80 doesn't fly off the shelves I hope they wake up and see that its weight may have been a big reason why and the determining factor for many people who may have otherwise bought one. Besides the other big reason of it being astronomically priced.

There is a glimmer of hope though. Take the new MO8 from Yamaha. It is "88" keys and weighs 46 lbs. Take the Roland Fantom X7 which has 76 keys and weighs in at 32 lbs. Take the new Korg TR 76 key which weighs in at only 20.3 lbs!

So I think there is a shift towards lighter and more portable keyboards by the Big Three. Except, of course, in the case of the E-80. They aren't batting a thousand yet but at least in several recent instances we see Yamaha, Roland, and Korg moving in the direction of lighter more portable keyboards. For which I commend them.

Best regards,
Mike

I think that the technology has progressed amply to deliver a lightweight keyboard with or without speakers, as witness by the addition of the Casio 88 key digital stage piano. If this piano has better polyphony and maybe better sound samples it would have been a keeper for me at only 26 pounds for a weighted hammer action 88 key instrument. I know that its possible, just hard to get all the technology together into one instrument. I am still thinking that one of those cheaper (less expensive) digital stage pianos is a good mix with an arranger board if 88 keys is required for a certain venue or performance. Everybody has their own reasons for why they do what they do. After having played heavy, lets not forget the Rhodes 76 key stage piano, I have decided to go light. Its about saving my back. Wheels or not you eventually have to lift it.

Remember boy & girls..."Lift with your Spleen!"

Dennis L. Almond
aka...TwoNuts

I don't know about other keyboards, but Technics could easily shave off 5 lbs just by removing the two speakers AND the woofer.

I know Yamaha supposed to be pretty light, at least for the PSR and the Tyros series.

I've been using a 7-pound controller keyboard with a 8-pound Midjay. I had to use Velcro to keep it from sliding around!
DonM

Roland IMO didnt design the E80 or the G70 for the gigging musician but rather for the Home / Studio user, judging by their refusal to sell these units in home organ stores where they exagerate the prices beyond belief........
who knows that their up to

... and hear the cries for 'on board' speakers ?!?!? ... I can lift the extra 5 lbs ...
t.

I can agree to a certain extent with the weight thing...but you guys are sacrificing quality for a few extra pounds..

I rather carry my 41 pound keyboard any day..then a keyboard that weighs less and feels like it too..I want to play a keyboard that allows me a comfort range while performing...and I like being confident that when I push a button it will come up again, unlike the light boards you guys mentioned[I know, I also owned these lightweights]..

When it comes to keyboards, automobiles and body guards...I want a little added weight...that will stand up to duty..

I too came from the heavy hauling era...{B3}..but 40-50 lb keyboards...come on guys...

Fran, the Roland G800 I had started falling apart a month after I bought it. The spring in the Joystick broke, the buttons started sticking and getting to where you had to push them very hard to make them work. Even the paint wore off where you had to remember what button did what. Maybe they improved all that in the G1000. Or maybe I had a lemon.
Anyway, in all the years I've played Yamahas, with assorted side journeys with Ketron, Korg, and Technics, I have never had one mechanical problem with them.
Not being a piano player, I also don't like the heavy keys. And even when I had onboard speakers, most nights I disabled them.
Isn't it great we have so many choices now?
Anyway, your compromises are different from mine!
DonM

I've got the solution to everyones problem...
Durable. You can play as hard as you want and it will keep working year after year...maybe?

Lightweight and extremely portable. What could it be you ask... The answer for all our problem is finally here



Now, doesn't that make you appreciate your board?

Dennis



[This message has been edited by TwoNuts (edited 05-14-2006).]

TwoNuts the weight of this keyboard is very good, but the colour is wrong.

Don ... Since using the Logitech Z-55s I've also been disabling the on board speakers during a gig (just sticking a 1/4" jack into the headphone plug)... but for practice and small gigs, I want them ...
t.

I second the opinion that for home users weight is not important, but for the people who gig with their instruments, the LIGHT WEIGHT IS OF PARAMOUNT IMPORTANCE.

Fran,

Yes, I too still like my 41 lb G1000, but the problem is when we say that, Roland interprets it as saying that it's OK for them to make the weight of the next instrument (G70) 3 lbs more. That is not the case at all with me - I would rather that the G1000 (and all newer instruments) weigh 35 lbs or less - and that is quite possible to do without sacrificing the key action, or build quality. I like having a metal frame (to protect against minor bumps which may otherwise crack a cheap plastic case), but it is not necessary anymore with current plastic technologies. Even with the metal case, if the manufacturers were more concerned about the weight and ergonomics, instead of the asthetic look of the instruments, instrument they could easily have built a 76 key instrument weighing only 35 lbs. Ketron does it. Why not Roland or Korg (or GEM)? Is it because they are targeting their big boards for home or studio, and not for gigging?That is the only explanation I can think of.

There are people whose technique relies on having fully weighted keys with realistic action - those do weigh more, though not necessarily in the 60 lbs range. But for the majority of us, satisfied with good semi-weighted action (which is what the best thing that most portable arrangers provide anyway), the instruments MUST be made easy to carry around.

The good styles and sounds do not weigh a lot. There are laptop computers, with relatively large screens, keyboards, lots of memory and large hard drives that weigh less than 3-4 lbs, fully capable of reproducing even the best sounds and styles (and doing a lot more too). The arranger makers may not have the engineering resources lf the large PC makers, but with just a little thought they should be able to easily make a 7 lb module, and the equivalent electronics to go inside a keyboard (without needing a case) could be even lighter. What does a portable piano weigh? around 30 lbs (with 88 weighted keys). The arranger version should make it 37 lbs. A 76 key controller? you do the math. Anything more to me is the gigging performers' needs.

Regards,
Alex