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#143193 - 08/17/03 02:26 AM Fantom S 88
trtjazz Offline
Member

Registered: 08/01/02
Posts: 2683
Anyone have and opinions pro or con about the Fantom S /S 88?
thanls,
Terry


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jam on,
Terry http://imjazzed.homestead.com/Index.html
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#143194 - 08/17/03 01:55 PM Re: Fantom S 88
Idatrod Offline
Member

Registered: 07/23/02
Posts: 562
Loc: Oceanside, CA USA
Has some great sounds. Many of the other sounds are mediocre. I demo'd the S88 and S for over an hour just to get a feel for the board and its sounds. Sounds are subjective of course, ie., what I thought was good or bad may be the reverse for someone else. One of the biggest complaints of the FantomS/88 is the note drop off from lack of Polyphony. Roland has up to 8 Voice Layers on some of its sounds so theoretically with all voices enabled, ie., Main, Layer1, Layer2, Left, Pads, etc., you could start to cut out by pressing down just 4 Keys simultaneously because the S/88 has only 64 note Polyphony.

Another big complaint is that the Sampler does not correctly play back Samples that have been recorded to it sometimes. So you record something into the Sampler and sometimes it doesn't play it back the way you sampled it.

Something along this line; you sample in Mozart and in the Playback you might get Chopstix. I'm exaggerating, but you get the idea. Maybe a bug fix is in the works that will correct this oddity.

I think Roland rushed this product to the market while making their customers the "Beta" testers. There have been reports of the OS freezing up and other buggy stuff.

Also when Yamaha announced the Motif ES series, the FantomS/88 became obsolete IMO, probably even before that fact. Many of the people that bought the FantomS/88 complained that the sounds were no where near as good as the sounds on the original Motif or Triton Studio and returned it because of that enormous shortcoming. Now that the Motif ES is on the way, the FantomS/88 sound descrepancy will be even more apparent and disparaging IMO. Remember, the Motif ES now has "True" 128 note Polyphony (which simply means that all of the waveforms in the keyboard are available to all 128 notes. The Motif ES will also take the PLG cards which can increase the Polyphony further).

The Motif ES has 175 mega bytes of WAV ROM which is more than any other Workstation on the market. Plus the Mega Voices, plus all those other discrete and highly accurate sampled AWM2 Wave Form Voices, plus the Mo' Sampler's massive storage capability. PS: People have said the FantomS/88's Grand Piano was nothing to write home about.- (The Grand Piano is tweakable, but out of the box it is apparently nothing special, and I concur with that sentiment although I thought it wasn't bad. IMO they will not be able to say that about the Motif ES's Grand Piano. I have heard the demo's and the Motif ES has THEE best Grand Piano sample I have EVER heard on ANY Keyboard. Now if the Motif ES's Grand Piano MP3 demo has any inkling to the real thing ie.,- (Mo' in the flesh ), it will not only be something to write home about but you might want to also consider purchasing some Yamaha stock options.

Best regards,
Mike

PS: Terry I realize you probably know all the details about the new Mo ES but for those that read this post and didn't know, I added it for their benefit.

[This message has been edited by Idatrod (edited 08-17-2003).]

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#143195 - 08/18/03 04:01 AM Re: Fantom S 88
trtjazz Offline
Member

Registered: 08/01/02
Posts: 2683
Mike,
Thanks for the response. I did buy an S88 yesterday though. While the Mo has quite a bit better specs. I thought the Ro had some very cool features that the Mo doesn't.

My initial short review at this point is: The concert grand is one of the top 3 I've ever heard, the strings are superb. Acoustic guitars fair, ( I have the Tyros to supplement this though as well as the sweet and live sounds)I think it has more bread & butter sounds than the Mo, which will be more usable in my work.

The user interface is a breeze, very easy to use.

The poly is still yet to be seen if it's going to be a problem for me or not. On the original Mo I had it could be. So I'll see.

In short I decided on this over the Mo for a few basic reasons.
User interface, better screen, different features and different sound palette from Yamaha and Rolands expansion card assortment. I tried some of Yammy's and my Trition Rack too, I don't like either of them at all for my tastes.
Terry

------------------
jam on,
Terry http://imjazzed.homestead.com/Index.html

[This message has been edited by trtjazz (edited 08-18-2003).]
_________________________
jam on,
Terry
http://www.artisans-world.com/

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#143196 - 08/18/03 07:06 PM Re: Fantom S 88
Idatrod Offline
Member

Registered: 07/23/02
Posts: 562
Loc: Oceanside, CA USA
Terry, change is a good thing. Let us know how you like it, ie., keep us updated on your opinions, likes and dislikes, how the sounds compare to other boards- 'Tyros included'. I heard there are no expansion boards yet that will increase polyphony. Have you heard any word from Roland if there will be? The LCD on the S/88 is sooooo much nicer than the Motif ES. Yamaha really boo boo'ed big time when they kept that itsy bitsy teenie weenie LCD of the original MO. I bet right now as we speak Yammie is back at the drawing board laying out plans and blueprints for next Motif series which will probably hit the market sometime around Summer NAMM 2005. And I would lay odds that it will have a nice BIG LCD screen too.

PS: Terry, you always have that 30 day return guarantee. If the S88 doesn't live up to your expectations you can always return it within 30 days. To be honest, I'm suprised by your sudden purchase of the S88. I would have thought you would have at least waited until the Mo ES was out then you could have done a side by side comparison and then made your decision. The way it is now if you keep that S88 beyond 30 days you're stuck with it. Then when the Mo' ES hits the shelves and you find out it is a Workstation Keyboard to die for and beyond all your expectations, again; you're stuck.

PS: There might be some special reading glasses a person can buy to magnify and clarify the text, etc., on the Mo' ES's LCD screen. I think Athan Billias might have been wearing a pair when he did those videos at NAMM. Nothing personal Athan. Whatever works as they say.

As a side note: There is a new Laser Surgery technology. Conductive Keratoplasty (CK) is a new procedure for the correction of hyperopia-(An abnormal condition of the eye in which vision is better for distant objects than for near objects), which is in its last stages of clinical trial by the FDA in the United States. This procedure uses radio frequencies, which are transmitted onto the cornea, where thermal effects cause corneal tissue to shrink. The energy is transmitted regularly and in cylindrical shape. With LTK (Laser Thermo-Keratoplasty), a similar procedure, which has been in clinical trial for some time, the thermal effects are obtained in funnel shape by using a holmium laser. Preliminary results lead to the assumption that results attained after CK treatment may be more stable than those attained after LTK treatment.

So there is hope! We want a bigger LCD on the Mo' ES Yammie! Bigger! Yes, that's right. Now you understand... I HOPE!!! Is it too late in the game for the Mo' ES to get a bigger screen?? Huh? I would thank you, Athan would thank you, and more importantly EVERYBODY ELSE would thank you.

Best regards,
Mike

[This message has been edited by Idatrod (edited 08-18-2003).]

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#143197 - 08/18/03 07:24 PM Re: Fantom S 88
Clif Anderson Offline
Member

Registered: 02/17/00
Posts: 532
It seems to me that Roland takes much greater advantage of aftertouch in its programming. In some sounds, it even controls pitch. Yamaha does not seem to take advantage of aftertouch it its programming.

The Fantom-S series also has the 16 drum pads that respond to both velocity and aftertouch--I believe it is even polyphonic aftertouch.

The Fantom-S series has room for four SRX expansion cards--for a great piano sound and interesting world sounds, for example. So I think there is plenty to recommend the Rolands.

OTOH, the Fantom-S series is not a good arranger substitute. No chord recognition and no provision for vocal harmony.

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#143198 - 08/18/03 09:22 PM Re: Fantom S 88
trtjazz Offline
Member

Registered: 08/01/02
Posts: 2683
Mike,
Some good points all around. However after having it for two days it does not seem likely at this point that I will return the S88. Having had a Motif 7 before, I have a pretty good feel what the ES will be.

While the ES has better specs than the S88 does, I'm not sure that makes much of a difference for the way I work and record.

As far as sound comparison, here's what I will say so far having not been through all the patches yet.

The Roland AC pianos take a back seat to no-one IMO. Their acoustic concert grand has this very cool feature where I can open the lid in increments for different tonal qualities.

The electrics are also outstanding some great Rhodes patches.

The strings are superb!

Brass very good to excellent.

Synthy sounds great and mediocre depending on the patch.

The weak patches I think so far are the acoustic guitars. I do not care for them much at all.

The drum kits are excellent.

The user interface is 100 times better than the Motif was. Very easy and intuitive to find my way around.

The larger screen a huge +. BTW nice about the new eye surgery, but useless to me.

To sum up at this point, why I think the S88 works better for me than the Mo did or the ES would.

Larger screen.

Different voices palette, for more variety in my work. I did buy the world sounds expansion board with it that has some outstanding world percussion. I had a couple of the Yamaha expansion boards and did not like theirs or Korgs for that matter.

The user friendliness another huge +.

The arppegiator works great and easily manipulateable for variety.

The Dynamics pads that I can play real time are outstanding, for drums and dropping in phrases etc.

All in all though still new I am very happy with it. I played the Mo again while I was there and liked the Fantom better for my work and method.
Terry

------------------
jam on,
Terry http://imjazzed.homestead.com/Index.html

[This message has been edited by trtjazz (edited 08-18-2003).]
_________________________
jam on,
Terry
http://www.artisans-world.com/

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#143199 - 08/18/03 09:29 PM Re: Fantom S 88
trtjazz Offline
Member

Registered: 08/01/02
Posts: 2683
Quote:
Originally posted by Clif Anderson:
It seems to me that Roland takes much greater advantage of aftertouch in its programming. In some sounds, it even controls pitch. Yamaha does not seem to take advantage of aftertouch it its programming.

The Fantom-S series also has the 16 drum pads that respond to both velocity and aftertouch--I believe it is even polyphonic aftertouch.

The Fantom-S series has room for four SRX expansion cards--for a great piano sound and interesting world sounds, for example. So I think there is plenty to recommend the Rolands.

OTOH, the Fantom-S series is not a good arranger substitute. No chord recognition and no provision for vocal harmony.


Cliff,
It is a good board and the world expansion card is great. I did not buy it as a replacement for my Tyros, but more as a companion. I also needed something in a workstation that could take me to a newer level I want to go to with my work, that my arranger will not take me.
Terry


------------------
jam on,
Terry http://imjazzed.homestead.com/Index.html
_________________________
jam on,
Terry
http://www.artisans-world.com/

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#143200 - 08/19/03 08:32 PM Re: Fantom S 88
Bluezplayer Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/10/00
Posts: 2195
Loc: Catskill Mountains, NY
I like the new fantom stuff terry. I didn't care as much for the original version, but even that was good enough that it was a tough decision vs the Motif for me.

I demoed the fantom s at length... I think I like the majority of the sounds better on the Motif .. not all but a majority. The Motif's electric pianos in particular sold me. I will say however.. that I like the OS a ton better on the Fantom. I was able to figure things out and access functions / features with just a few hours on the board. In contrast, it took weeks for me to learn how to access similar functions on the Motif.
I like the Fantom better on some features too, and I believe one can now add user arps on the S model( lack of user arps was a big minus on the original version..at least to me ).

I don't know that I will go the Fantom route.. I still don't like all the sounds... especially guitars.., but I love the features and what I find to be the ease of access. I'm waiting 'til the ES comes out.. I really wish I could afford and had the room for an ES, Fantom S, and Triton studio 2, along with my current arrangers and a dedicated samplelogue synth ( my AJ speak for today's virtual / modeled analog emulations ). I'd love to own that new moog thing and the VR760 too. I just can't do it though.. so I'll wait and see how I like the ES .. and take it from there.

Good luck with the "S". I'm sure you'll enjoy it and make some cool music with it.

AJ
_________________________
AJ

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#143201 - 08/21/03 05:12 AM Re: Fantom S 88
trtjazz Offline
Member

Registered: 08/01/02
Posts: 2683
AJ,
Thanks...you mentioned you tried the S and liked the Mo better. I can see that for your Fusion work the Mo is more cutting edge.

I did not like the original Fantom myself, the S88 is a different animal though, even over the 61 S there are more features.

When the ES comes in do an A/B, I think you'll still choose the Mo for your work and also because you know the Mo system now.

I agree on the Fantom guitars, I think they are weak, but I can use the Tyros for those.

Ease of operation is not even a comparison to the Mo IMO, the Fantom is not very taxing even to a dope like me. It's the first time I have used the on board sequencer on any board.
Terry

------------------
jam on,
Terry http://imjazzed.homestead.com/Index.html
_________________________
jam on,
Terry
http://www.artisans-world.com/

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