Now that I'm (finally) convinced that Yamaha has (with Tyros2) eliminated (or at least reduced) the negative effect of stereo phase cancellation when going out the (L+R) audio out alone, to a mono PA speaker, I'm again considering purchasing a Bose PAS PA system.

Bose PAS Official Site

Explanation of How the Bose PAS Works

Realizing that the PAS, in a traditional band situation, typically has each musician (individual instrument/ singer) with their own PAS unit set up next to them on stage, curious how the PAS should be setup (configured) for use in a "one man band" arranger keyboard situation where all instrument sounds + vocals, emunate from a SINGLE source: our arr keyboard. Also, how does the Bose PAS sound in an open (no walls) outdoor enviroment compared to indoor venues? Does the PAS subwoofer provide adequate rich bass & presence?

Feedback from Bose PAS owners (especially those who've used it with Tyros2 like DonM ) plus any others who've had the chance to hear or audition it, greatly appreciated. The other albeit more traditional (yet relatively lightweight) PA system I'm considering (and very impresed with the sound of after auditioning) is the EV SxA360 .

Opinions/feedback appreciated.

Scott

Scott
I've been at 2 indoor performances where I heard the sound quality of the Bose before I actually got into the room (playing area) close enough to see that it was the Bose system being used.

If you have the $$$$, take advantage of the Bose 45-day trial "Better Music Guarantee".

Get it when you have indoor and outdoor jobs and give it a real test.

Scott,

I own 4 double bass systems, and I use it with my KEtron MiDJay and the Tyros 2 with amazing results.

I even use them in a full band situation in a conventional speaker set-up

they are great

Scott, I heard Eddie Shumaker (betweengigs) a few months ago playing his 3000 through the PAS... sounded great. All the good things you've heard/read about the system are true. I've also heard it outdoors with a 4 piece bluegrass group... sounded great. It'll be a major improvement over what you're using now. Just do it, you won't be sorry.

Glenn

Hi Scott

I am sure Bose would like to sell a unit to all members of a group, but I can tell you that when playing on one side of a large hall, and the 20 piece band on the other, I have to hold the volume down to 1/2 to be equal.

If you want the best, go for it. Like it has been stated, what do you have to lose, they will pay shipping both ways for 45 days.

Just like you always said of the MPP, it is the best investment I ever made.

Bernie

Frankie, Bernie, DonM:

Which of the following PS1 (PAS) Setups do you own/recommend:

Basic Package

Single Bass Package

Double Bass Package

Is there sufficient bass w/o a subwoofer, and how much bass improvement is gained by adding 1 subs vs 2 subs?

It certainly appears if I opt for the Bose PAS, I'll certainly be in good company.

Scott

I like the single bass package at this point for a list price of $1,999.98. I wonder if the price is fixed or you can buy them cheaper. I will have to look into this a little more. The website says you can go to Guitar Center and demo the product
(if they have the product in stock) so I think I will have to make a trek down to the local guitar center and see if they have them.

Thanks Scott...


Regards,

Dennis L. Almond
aka...TwoNuts




[This message has been edited by TwoNuts (edited 07-31-2006).]

Bose says that the 1/4" sub-out jack can also be used with self-powered low-freq speakers you may already own.
If you have one, you could save a couple of bucks...

but if I had Scott's money, I'd have to have a Bose sub or 2 too.

At last, you turn your head to the Bose PAS! Take a comfortable time to audition the system, if you can and/or take advantage of the return policy. The sound of the PAS is different and it can take some time to know how it excels, so don't rush in taking your own conclusions. In my opinion the PAS is an absolute keeper. I purchased two Single Bass Packages, so I can use them in several combinations. Make sure you buy at least one bass module.

In an open space the sound is terrific in definition and volume (smaller volume decay than with conventional systems), however bass doesn't project with a good efficiency. For that application I recommend two bass modules.

-- José.



[This message has been edited by Route 66 (edited 08-01-2006).]

Hope you wanted a candid opinion. There are some solo singer/guitarists here that use the Bose PAS, er... L1. Got a soloact friend in Florida and he loves his L1's. But I can't shake the impression that this system sounds exactly like what it is: tiny speakers mounted in a pole. I just don't get it and probably never will... the L1 is fine for the squeeky acoustic guitarist/singers I see using it but I don't like the sound of it, the shape of it, or the price of it. So many things sound better for less money, and whether or not you can get a decent sound out of mono I believe stereo will always sound better for keyboards. I think the L1 is a fad like those tiny Dawn speaker systems I saw being used by a lot of small acts once upon a time and haven't seen since. The L1 is a turn-off to me and I suspect some regular audience types may share that opinion.

Jim, I surely understand some of you dislikes. The price for example. I agree that the price is too high (Bose standards, development costs, whatever), and that you can get a good conventional sound system for less money. Shape is a matter of taste. For me it's a plus and it fits in the trunk of my convertible (this would be impossible with a conventional comparable system). The sound is a more "difficult" subject. Until now I had nothing but compliments from my audiences - in open spaces, bars, large venues. This, of course, doesn't prove anything. My understanding is that it sounds somewhat different (not with the L1 only - way too 'thin' of a sound - but L1+B(1) at least). It took me a little while to appreciate the qualities of the system. Of course your opinion may differ from mine.

-- José.

Ed: you certainly haven't been talking to 'my' accountant.

Thanks to ALL for your candid feedback and comments. Interestingly enough, since I've now had a chance to do a few (smaller) gigs with my Tyros2 going out mono to a single PA speaker, and finding the results (surprisingly) pleasing, and pleasurable to my audiences as well, I'm begining to have a change of heart about my past 'gotta go' out stereo attitude. As my act (lounge venue) is mainly acoustic oriented: piano + rhythm section (bass/drums) and vocals with soloing (acoustic instruments), it seems the Bose system will certainly satsify my performance requirements: natural (unhyped). I had hoped the Bose PS1 Basic System (without subwoofer) would be adequate, but it sounds (from your feedback) that that at least one subwoofer (single bass package) is needed. That the case, my accountant says I need a little more time to swallow the 2K required for that system. In the meantime, it would be terrific to see pics of your Bose PS1 PA setup in your respective venues.

Scott

btw: Jose, great to see you posting here again. I kinda remember seeing pics of your Bose PAS & keyboard packed in your compact car. Would be great if you could post these kool shots again.

Scott,

Get the double bass package, you can always turn it down, or bring only one,

I found that 1 tends to be a bit lite in the bottom end, and I hate to try to compensate with the EQ, it starts to sound un-natural.

If you are interested in buying, I can set you up with my guy at Bose and he might be able to get you 10% off

Later

I know a friend that is using it for a reggae band with a solid bass guitar and acoustic drum kit, and it sounded great and they certainly didn't have a squeaky live sound. He has the double sub so that definately may help provide a good frequency range. The vocal sounded very clear and open everywhere in the room. He also had an acoustic/electric guitar playing through it as well and it layered beautifully over the acoustic drums and bass.


[This message has been edited by Nigel (edited 08-01-2006).]

Can someone perhaps post the WEIGHT (lbs) of EACH ONE of the Bose PAS' parts (how many parts total?) and also tell me what the average transport, setup & breakdown time is? Thanks. - Scott

Hello Scott,
I've been using the Bose system since Dec. '03 with good results. The only significant weight is the Base/Amp at 35 lbs. You should be able to set up in 15-20 mins including sound check. Base/amp out of the bag and put it in position, set in the bottom of the tower set then the top of the tower, position the bass bin. Connect bass bin and instruments - sound check. Since I also do vocals and use the midi accordion acousticly as well as a keyboard, I need effects so I use a mini mixer with effects rather than the Bose remote. I have a mini van and it packs very easily.
Ciao,
Jerry

Hi Jerry. Setup/breakdown time sounds acceptable for the small-medium to larger jobs, but will reserve my TRS-MS02 sub + Bose 161's, and/or a single EV SxA100 (mono) speaker, for the small quickie in/out 45 min jobs, where '5 minute' speaker transport & setup time is pretty much mandatory.

Btw folks, Donny Pesce (DNJ) contacted me today. Other than saying he likes the G70, he didn't elaborate any more about it than that. but . . .

he did tell me that he thinks the Bose PAS sounds great, but that he dumped his because he felt the PAS (especially for the smaller jobs) a bit of a hassle to setup & longer to breakdown than conventinal speakers. He found getting it's 'overly snug fitting' covers (4 each cordora?) back onto the PAS's (4 separate) pieces, a time consuming struggle. Hmmm. perhaps Donny's PAS covers shrank in the wash? Ok, I'm curious now if any other Bose PAS owners here are experiencing problems getting the PAS (4) slip case covers 'on/off' too? Thanks. - Scott

[This message has been edited by Scottyee (edited 08-01-2006).]

Donny just likes to buy stuff.

Just kidding, maybe it really is a pain for him, I don't have one. Only he knows.

Scott, you need one sub at least. Get that and see how it does you. Guys on acoustic guitar/vocal, MIGHT get by without a sub but from all I have read, you, for sure, want one playing keyboard.

------------------
Bill
Yamaha PSR2000

Scott, the covers are no problem. They actually stretch a little after a few uses.
I never take the base/amp out of the cover, just unzip it and pull the top back.
I timed myself setting up today. The entire setup, including L1, B1, Tyros 2, stand, mic and plugging everything in took 8 minutes.
I had a roomfull of about 20 pro musicians tonight, including Kix Brooks, and they were in awe of the Bose system. They were sitting in the dining room at the other end of the building and said it sounded so good they all had to come into my room for drinks to see what was going on.
One guy named Toby something from Nashville sang a song and was very impressed that he could stand right in front of the tower and not get feedback, yet still have ample volume.
Scott, order the Bose with one sub or two and don't look back.
It will improve anybody's sound and the end result will be to make you more money.
DonM

Esh, can I assume that you've actually had a chance to audition the Bose and A/B compare them with equivilent conventional speakers? As I mentioned earlier, my other (albeit slightly higher priced) self powered PA speaker choice would be the very impressive sounding Electro-Voice: SxA360's , & at a mere 36 lbs/ speaker. Have you (or anyone else here) heard these or had an opportunity to A/B compare these to the Bose PAS setup?

Don. Thanks for the assurance, because I purchased similar covers for my EV-SxA100's, and quickly gave up even trying to get their ultra skin tight covers on after each gig. I trust the Bose PAS covers aren't nearly as difficult to put on.

Scott

I never take the cover off the amp. The cover slides easily off the the bass bin. Initially the covers on the two pieces of the tower are quite tight, but after a few uses they loosen up.
No problems.
You'll have a 45 day trial to decide for yourself.
DonM

Have I A/B'd Bose L1's with my EON's? No. Heard them used by local musos and had a chance to walk around a room to listen? Definitely... outdoors too. My impression of L1's being overpriced speakers-in-a-stick stands. I'm all for hi-tech and I've used Bose systems previously, and if I thought the L1's were the way to go I'd own a pair (stereo 4 life).

Tell you a story that may help... how I wound up with EON's was that I actually did set up a huge A/B test outdoors about ten years ago with my former Bose 800's + the Bose subwoofer system against the JBL powered EON's and subs which had just come out at the time, and I ran white and pink noise through them with no EQ and did a frequency spectrum analysis. The EON's were much flatter than the Bose... and if you think about it, you never see Bose speakers of any kind used in a studio for that reason. A balanced speaker response is very important to me as a keyboardist so I ditched my Bose in favor of EON's with no regrets.

I would suggest repeating this test with Bose L1's if possible, and since I haven't done this I don't know what the results would be in advance. Maybe this will give you an unbiased indication of the L1's ability to reproduce all frequencies in an even manner as I found the JBL EON's can.

Esh, Which JBL’s are you using? And are you using a sub? If so which one?
John C. --- Thanks

Scott. When at our Keyboard Festival last April two pro concert players used the PAS in concert. One used it also for a late night dance session. I stayed behind in the concert ballroom after the evening concert for the purpose of listening to the PAS during the dance session. I was very much wanting to like the sound after all the reports on the forums.
Without a doubt the dispersion of sound whether you were close or further away was excellent, but I had difficulty coming to terms with the mid range frequency prominence. Possibly this was due to the system not being EQ properly ?. Also the player had the volume far too load which may have effected my judgment.
Next month Sept we are attending the Keyboard Festival again and it will be interesting to see if my view of the PAS has changed.

I agree with Graham UK, they were in use at the Blackpool Festival in May this year, and I was also very disappointed with the sound, (As I mentioned in my report) it was too hard sounding and very unnatural as if the EQ needed adjusting.
Interestingly I have the Franz Lambert DVD of his Euro tour and the sound from the Bose is brilliant, however I did notice that he had controls each side of him which he altered to suit the style and type of music he performed, and I think (Although I may be wrong) these actually altered the EQ settings on the Twin Bose systems in use.
Anyway we will see what September brings.
Enjoy whatever you play.

Bill

It appears as if things have quieted down here at the Synthzone considerably during the past two weeks--NICE!

Graham,

I strongly suspect the person that was using the Bose did not have his keyboard, or the BOSE L1, or both, properly EQ'd, which would not be unusual. The latest updated presets are excellent, especially #55 and #57, both of which are ideal for most keyboards. However, it's equally important that the keyboard itself be properly EQ'd. I believe this may have been the problem that Esh encountered when he listened to the system.

The dispersion of sound is beyond description, and individuals that have used conventional systems have the tendency to turn the Bose up too loud, thus overpowering the audiences. One thing that most newcomers to the system seem to neglect is the sound level they hear is exactly what the audience hears. No longer does the person sitting close to the speakers have his or her head blown off, while those situated in the back of the room have trouble hearing the music--this is not the case with the L1 system.

Those of us that have been using this particular system for a while will never go back to a conventional sound system. Audience response ranges from excellent to outstanding, setup time is not as long as some conventional systems, the individual components are relatively lightweight, it's built to last a lifetime, and while the price was about double what I paid for a pair of Barbetta Sona 32-CS speakers, the sound quality far exceeds any conventional sound system on the market today. I spent a lot of time, and money, trying other systems, some of which were touted as the best. IMO, and the opinion of many other pros, nothing, absolutely nothing, can compare to the Bose L1.

Next week I'll be doing my 3rd outdoor job with the L1 at Aberdeen Maryland's Concert In The Park. This will be the largest outdoor job I've done and I sincerely believe the Bose L1 will do an outstanding job--even in an area the size of a football field.

Scott, Buy the system using the 45-day return policy, spend some time setting the EQs, then querry your audiences about the sound quality--you'll be amazed at the responses.

Good Luck,

Gary

------------------
Travlin' Easy

I am currently using a pair of the JBL EON G2 10's with the standard (non-G2) powered JBL EON subs. I mostly use the EON's for larger rooms or outdoors - my normal stage amp for average-to-small rooms is the Motion Sound KP-200s or KP-100s.

Scott,

You asked if anyone had done a comparison of the Bose L1's to the Electrovoice SXA 360's. While I have never used the Bose L1's and only tested them in a Guitar Center showroom, I do use the EV's in my current sound system. In my opinion the SXA 360's will give you a better quality sound as well as a lot more power. I noticed that Bose does not give out the SPL(sound pressure level) rating of the L1's so I called the number in the manual to get this info, not that it is the only factor but it is certainly one that helps give us insight into how different brand speakers compare. The technician I spoke with said, "We don't give out the SPL rating of our systems since we feel that those types of numbers can be misleading". I found this answer to be interesting since all other speaker manufacturer specifications that I am aware of have always included this information.

If you are doing smaller indoor venues then the Bose will probably do the trick. Note that Bose still has a pro division which makes the larger more poweful systems including the "old stand by" 802's which they have designed for larger venues.

You asked for the weight of the Bose L1's. Here is what is listed in the manual:
PS1 power stand - 35 lb.
Lower L1 - 16 lb.
Upper L1 - 14.5 lb.
R1 remote - 0.6 lb.
B1 bass module - 28 lb.
Thats about 93 lbs total for the single L1 system.

I know that you have the SXA 100's but the 360's are completely different animals. They have a different high frequency driver(DH2T Compression Driver) that puts out a lot more power than the one in the 100's. I own both and the 360's have a much better sound. The engineer at EV described them as being more "vocal forward" and said that this driver was similar to the one used in the Plasma P1( http://www.electrovoice.com/products/30.html ) except it uses a 2" voice coil instead of the 3" that is in the plasma. The 100's have a 1" voice coil.

As a side note: the EV slip covers fit the 360's better than the 100's as the 360's are flat across the entire back side without the annoying fins that protrude from the 100's.

Esh, I like the JBL's also. Before I bought the EV's I had the older (non G2)powered Eons, three 15's and two 10's. They had a very good sound. Oh and btw I too remember those "tiny Dawn speaker systems" that you mentioned. I tested one about 20 yrs ago and the whole band had a good laugh afterwards. LOL

Scott, the important thing is to find is to find what works for you and makes you happy!

If we all had the same opinion it would get pretty boring around here.

Richard

[This message has been edited by richard_shiflet (edited 08-02-2006).]