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#141093 - 08/20/06 07:27 AM Re: 1 philosophical question re "playing"
keysvocalssax Offline
Member

Registered: 03/12/06
Posts: 845
Loc: Miami FL nov-may/Lakeville CT ...
interesting how often Diana Krall comes up as paradigm in these posts. sure, she's a very good singer, kinda sexy and not at all bad looking---but she's a direct stylistic descendant of Peggy Lee, who was much prettier, much sexier, an original stylist, fantastic singer, consummate and exciting performer, and a very good songwriter. and
PLee was just one of a panoply of amazing performers of her era. now we have DKrall as our paragon? how sad. how did this happen? were we just in a "golden era" and didn't know it? I went to the Litchfield Ct. Jazz Festival last summer, many wonderful acts..then we stayed for 79-yr old "Catwoman" Eartha Kitt. Just for fun, just to see the
still-sexy looking relic and hear her campy act for a few
minutes. oh man, were we mistaken:she was the best jazz singer we have heard since Ella, Sarah, Peggy, et al, and her backup band with her longtime pianist-arranger outswung all the other groups combined. Atl least while
she's still around, let's cling to this treasure. But again,
she's from the golden era..why were they so great and
why is DKrall the best we have to offer today? or is she?
Miami Mo
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#141094 - 08/20/06 08:04 AM Re: 1 philosophical question re "playing"
bruno123 Online   content
Senior Member

Registered: 06/04/02
Posts: 4912
Loc: West Palm Beach, FL 33417
Can you imagine how helpful it would be if the person writing the post states what is his criteria for judging. Using two different sets of criteria to judge or make your opinions can make both people right.

If the criteria is “the paycheck justifies all”. So be it.

If the criteria is musicianship, state it before your opinion.

IMHO, John C.

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#141095 - 08/20/06 08:04 AM Re: 1 philosophical question re "playing"
ianmcnll Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10606
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
Diana Krall is incredible.

Did Peggy Lee and Eartha Kitt play the piano?

Ian

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#141096 - 08/20/06 08:32 AM Re: 1 philosophical question re "playing"
cgiles Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/29/05
Posts: 6703
Loc: Roswell,GA/USA
KVC, just because I used DK in an example doesn't necessarily translate into "she is the best out there". Although this thread wasn't about female singers, I WILL bite and say that I tend to seperate vocalist into two groups; singers and stylists. Diana Krall, IMO, falls into the latter category. While I think she is okay and a consummate professional, I would much prefer a Shirley Horn, Carmen McRae, or Nina Simone. As for pure singers, I'll take a Sarah Vauhan or a Gloria Lynn (I'm Glad There is You). There are many other singers I like, but I was keeping it to females and jazz. I also love Janis Joplin and Joe Cocker because the soul was for real (as opposed to just having the pipes and musicianship to fake it). In fact, that would make an interesting thread; who has soul and who's faking it. This should include all genre's and past and present. We could also save some typing by just acknowledging say, James Brown and Luciano Pavrotti right up front, and maybe Mahalia Jackson and Edith Piaf. Although I'm not a fan of the style, I can still recognize that many Country singers have it. Who would some of your candidates be, on either side of the aisle (got it/faking it)?

chas

PS: if someone wants to try to define "soul" first, go right ahead.
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#141097 - 08/20/06 12:34 PM Re: 1 philosophical question re "playing"
FAEbGBD Offline
Member

Registered: 03/20/01
Posts: 847
Loc: Nashvville TN
Thing about Diana is that there's no mistaking her for somebody else. Maybe not the best, but definitely has her own timbre. A lot of the country singers and pop singers I don't think have that. They can sing fine, but they don't all have a distinguishable voice. Anyway, has anyone here heard Stacey Kent? Another unique sound. She has an interesting diction, the way she says some of her words, but I really like her.

And as to Irving Berlin, he did what he did best. Wrote songs. To my knowledge he didn't take his D Flat piano out gigging. He did his art well, and let the musicians and singers do their art with his work. And the whole process remained artistic and had integrity.

[This message has been edited by FAEbGBD (edited 08-20-2006).]

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#141098 - 08/20/06 12:57 PM Re: 1 philosophical question re "playing"
Vadim Offline
Member

Registered: 07/13/03
Posts: 321
I wanna say only a little of what i wanna say:
i hear this a lot on this forum, about playing live and not using SMFs, CDs,(and I will add: Styles)! If You're so into Live music, than why bother playing Keyboard at all, why won't you just play LIVE instrument, like a guitar, bass guitar, drums, if you're so into live music ?!?!
and i can answere part of this question: Because these people can't play any live instrument, because thet're used to just pressing chords and the AutoAccompaniment is doing all the work for these lazy people. If you made the Style yourself than its ok to use is. same thing with SMFs and stuff, if you made it yourself USE IT, if you're using someone elses SMF, thats even worse than using auto accompaniment!

[This message has been edited by Vadim (edited 08-20-2006).]

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#141099 - 08/20/06 01:37 PM Re: 1 philosophical question re "playing"
brickboo Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 02/04/01
Posts: 2071
Loc: Fruita, Colorado, USA
Definition of "SOUL."
Ray Charles.
There's isn't another entertainer that can sing with feeling like Ray and also play his instrument with the same feeling (for Ray the piano) that I've ever heard.

Since the beginning of time he'd be the musician I'd kill for to jam with.
He knew his stuff. Everyone one else can only come in second to Ray. Guitar strummers don't count.

I'm talking musicians who can get up and improvise with any commercial band on any commercial tune. Ray could cut it friends.
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#141100 - 08/20/06 02:13 PM Re: 1 philosophical question re "playing"
MrEd Offline
Member

Registered: 09/30/04
Posts: 519
I hear alot of similarities of Judy Roberts in DK. Judy has been around many years, playing piano and singing jazz, lots of albums.

I appreciate what both are doing musically.

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#141101 - 08/20/06 03:40 PM Re: 1 philosophical question re "playing"
Songman55 Offline
Member

Registered: 06/24/05
Posts: 892
Loc: Baltimore, MD USA
OK I have to get in on this one. I quit posting here because I got tired of all the pissing contests. Vadim, I can and do play piano regularly. I have produced a solo piano CD and do concerts to promote it. I also do hotel jobs, I'm a church music director, and I'm musical director of Senior Star Showcase at Essex Community College in Baltimore. I am a real musician and I also play an arranger and I love it. I play it because I love to entertain people. I love to see the smile on their faces when they hear the music. I love to play to a crowded dance floor as I just did this afternoon. I love it when I run out of business cards like I did today. I don't play one because I can't play anything else, I play one because the OMB format works really well for me. It has sustained me in this crazy business for many years now.

And no, it's not a crime to buy a SMF. Frank Sinatra hired arrangers to arrange his music. All a SMF is is an arrangement which someone else did and you bought and paid for. I usually use them so I can get up from behind the keyboard and go out into the audience.

I guess I've said enough. If you don't like arranger keyboards, this probably isn't the place to be. As for me, I think they're great and I'll continue to use them.

Joe

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Songman55
Joe Ayala
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#141102 - 08/21/06 08:04 AM Re: 1 philosophical question re "playing"
trident Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/22/04
Posts: 1457
Loc: Athens, Greece
Not very good in English, not sure if the translation from my native language will produce a meaning to you but here it is....

It depends on what you do:
1) You play an instrument (or music) FOR people, for a crowd.
2) You play an instrument TO people, to a crowd.

If you play FOR them, you have to accept and conform with their wants and needs, and provide music accordingly. (Think of the Blues Brothers playing "Rawhide" all night in the movie)

If you play TO them, you are playing for yourself, and if they like what they hear, then good for them, if they don't like it, you don't care after all. (have no example, Miles Davies late years maybe?)

It depends on what you want to do, and if it pays enough to "feed you and your family" which comes in the equation if you get paid to do either of the above.

There is actually no wrong or right in my opinion. Seems more like a balance between these two.

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