As an experiment, I tried to use standard T2 styles to play a straight ahead jazz standard using a jazz combo instrumentation of piano, bass, drums, and guitar with appropriate groove, fills, and a variety of comps, different from the head, to avoid a repetitive boring background for soloing.

For this experiment I used Benny Golson’s song Killer Joe. You can listen to my effort at:
http://media.putfile.com/Killer-Joe-Jazz-Experiment

I don’t consider this a performance but more of a sketchpad of an experiment. I did it in real-time, one take, into the recorder of the T2.

For the intro I used variation D of Fast Jazz, starting with its fill for the drum intro and then leading to the comp. For the bridge I used variation A. For soloing I didn’t like the comping of variation B or variation C of Fast Jazz so I used variation B of Modern Jazz which uses brushes on the drums, and variation C which uses sticks, and variation D which has a guitar comp on every beat. For the trading 4s with the drums I used Bebop variation D which I revoiced the piano comp to jazz guitar to match the other styles used. For the ending I was back to Fast Jazz variation D with lots of drum breaks and then a quick switch to variation C to change up the drums before closing out with Ending I.

I saved the Fast Jazz, Modern Jazz, and Bebop styles in single registration bank using just three buttons and used the variation buttons to make the switches within each style.

I think if I work on this a little more I could have a couple of useable registration banks that I could use for a variety of different songs.

Give a listen and tell me what you think. All comments, praise and suggestions, are welcomed and encouraged.

Hallo Robert,
a very intelligent usage of an arranger. I enjoyed it. Thanks for sharing
Greetings
Peter

Robert,

I enjoyed that a lot, and great chops too. Clever use of switching styles to suit the flow of the song.

When I was playing my 9000Pro in a duo (me plus female vocalist) I was always striving for the jazz combo feel so that the backings didn't clash too much with the vox. Unfortunately I never had enough time to achieve this properly. But I reckon you're right on the money.

Kind regards,
Mark

Robert,

You are a terrific player and your use of the various styles is very clever.

Ian



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Remember to leave good news alone.

outstanding work Robert !!

Cool. I'd have to say as well that this concept creates a cool combo setting that does give a better impression of musicians playing with all the variation.
Something you might want to do to polish this just a little. In the section where the drummer is taking 4's, you will want to move the pan of the guitar slightly left as it is in the other variations, right now it is centered. Also, you might consider totally reworking that guitar part and use legit voicings. Not possible to do piano type voicings like that on a guitar. Also at the beginning during the head, the guitar is not playing authentic guitar voicings.

Rory: Thanks for the feedback. Good point about panning in the 4's to better match the other styles.

You bring up an interesting point. Using the internal styles, some voicings that are not possible on a real guitar may be played. There is no "don't play an impossible voicing" function that I am aware of in the Tyros engine that selects the voicing for a chord. Also, as a piano player, I have no idea of what is an "illegal" guitar voicing. Although, I am sometimes frustrated that I can't get a chord played in a style in the inversion I want. As example, in the head, the Bb7 chord (second chord in the groove) I like with D on the top and the Tyros always chooses F.

Another philosophy may be. Why should I be limited by what can be done on the real instrument as compared to what can be done on the virtual one. As example, I love to use pitch bend with an electric piano sound. However, I have never seen a Rhodes with a whammy bar.

BTW, I checked out your site. Some very cool stuff there. Amazing Grace was cooking.

Hey Robert: thanks for checking out my site and listening to some of my music. Very much appreciated.

as far as the Tyros not having a "Don't play illegal voicings" button, could this not be remedied by doing some style editing? That is what I was driving at. Of course it's personal preference, whether you want to take the time to educate yourself on guitar voicings and style editing in order to authenticate the guitar, or as you said, just do it differently with a virtual guitar than a real guitar.

My take on this is that would be fine for experimental music where you do things differently just because you can. But for a song like this where you have gone through the effort of trying to make as realistic a jazz combo as possible, I'd say your overall objective has been to create authenticity.

robert, thanks for post, nice playing, what u have done is what I do on my gigs..except I don't use the guitar in the comp..just bass/drums/percussion, because I find using the guitar comp parts(or any other parts) the way these arrangers are set up is just too stiff for jazz, plus you have to be so careful in your LH voicing. too bad, because the sound of the guitar comp does add a nice flavor to it. for me it's about keeping a real jazz trio "feeling" going when I play and sing, not trying to duplicate details of 'authenticity"--that's the paradox, if you try to 'freeze" anything perfect, it tends to sound canned and lose its underlying spontaneous jazz impulse. I try to vary the
sounds I use a lot, depending on how it strikes me, even
though I keep to the piano-rhodes-vibes-organ-guitar-
muted tpt-flute most of the time..but having the choice of
hundreds of sounds, try a non-jazz instrument on occasion to keep it fresh and the creativity flowing. that's
something not possible with a live band.(how many guys
can play a frnech horn, tuba and ocarina in unison?LOL)
Miami Mo

Mo: You said you use "just bass/drums/percussion". What are you doing for chords? Playing them in the left hand and letting the arranger recognize them for the appropriate bass part? If you do that, how often do you find the bass going off into left field? My problem is with 61 keys I don't always have as much room as I want/need to stretch out for chord voicing and melody work.

I hear ya on changing it up. I have been on a quest lately for middle-eastern styles to use just drums/bass with. In the future I might add a computer to my setup to use something like the MOTU Ethno sound set. It looks REALLY cool. To the sounds you listed I also like using the oboe. I think it sings out better than the clarinet on the T2. And I find the French Mussette and the SA tenor can be rather tasty too.

[This message has been edited by RobertG (edited 08-24-2006).]

Robert, I play in full or piano mode almost all the time. I'm not a trained pianist but a sax/vocalist who is self-taught on keys. I use the sax sparingly on gigs w/my akb, and never ever try to emulate a sax sound on kbd. But
you're right, oboe is cool, and I use a Korg or Technics
and find use for oboe, french horn, cello, bassoon, etc.

It would be nice to have a 76, but those unfortunately are either beginner kb's or weigh a ton, like g70, pa1xpro, SD1, but i don't have a problem voicing on the 61-maybe in part because I don't voice "correctly", or really spread out. Most of the time i just do the root position 7ths, mixed with "Bud Powell" style 2-finger 1/7, 1/5, 3/7, etc.

Most of what I do is unconscious and on top of all the other good reasons I have for not using full arrangements, I don't want to be concerned with screwing up the background because I voiced incorrectly. I am also singing
80% of the tunes so I want to keep the background light.

I'm not familiar with the product you are investigating..let
me know where to find it, and if you get one..
Miami Mo

robert dont let this unending quest for absolute accuracy in terms of the individual instrument voicings get in the way of making great music. I used to play guitar myself and could not tell that the voicing was incorrect on your piece and i believe that i am a fairly discerning amateur musician. sometimes we spend too much time analysing and agonising over a peice of music for very little if any improvement in the feel and pleasure the music gives. Let me tell you that i loved what you id with that piece and genuinely would like to hear more .

Robert ... REAL NICE ... and I don't think I would be too concerned about the general audience realizing that the guitar voicings are incorrect ... how was the drum solo accomplished? ......
you PLAY man !!! ... WELL DONE ....
THIS is what this forum is about ...
THANK YOU
t.

MO: Mark of the Unicorn (MOTU) Ethno can be found at www.motu.com I happened to pick up the September issue of Electronic Musician today and the cover story is about ethnic instruments so after reading it I may consider other options that I didn't know about.

Tony/Spalding: I agree to not worry about authentic voicings. If it sounds good, it's all good.

Tony: Drum solo is part of the standard Tyros 2 style called Bebop. I guess you could do something similar with drum loops and multipads. I agree this is what the forum should be about. That is why I wrote the description of how I used the instrument hoping for the type of dialog that has resulted.


[This message has been edited by RobertG (edited 08-24-2006).]

Robert, great work. Thanks for contributing such a positive thread. BTW SD1 isn't very heavy.
DonM

Robert, great job! Very enjoyable and definitely not very recognizable as an arranger piece.

Don: Not too heavy and 76 keys would be most welcome. I understand that the SD1 is about 5 years old and due for an update and there is only 64 notes of polythony. Have heard good things about Ketron but it is hard to find one to audition as compared to the offerings of our friends in Japan. With more polythony and use of newer tech like Yamaha SA sounds or Roland's guitar emulator I would give Ketron a good listen.

Cassp: Nice to hear that you thought that the variation I used made it non-arranger sounding. That was truly my goal of the experiment.

Cool Stuff!!

Excellent job!

Hi Robert: finally had a chance to sit down and listen to your T2 "Jazz Experiment" of mixing & matching select variations from different jazz styles. It's a "KiLLER" auto accomp rendition for sure, as it captures (as much as can be achieved on an auto accomp arranger) the spontaneous feel of a jazz combo rhythm section. In addition to what you've already done well, I might suggest (for even more splash) importing even more different drum fills into variations and/or intro-endings & breaks, or trigger via multipads, drum hits spontanously in the song. Robert, Thanks for sharing with us your impressive keyboard rendition of "Killer Joe". Good stuff.

Scott

Scott: Good idea on the fills. Is there a standard T2 MultiPad bank that you use/like for drum fills or is there a source/collection you know of? I was thinking of trying some of the loops or generators available to create midi files to use on the T2. My only concern with MultiPads is becomeing too much of a mechanic whilst playing (worrying about what buttons to hit instead of focusing on what keys to play to actually make music).

Wonderful!!!!
thanx for sharing Robert I really enjoyed it!!

Thanks to everyone who replied, especially those with suggestions. Hopefully other people will try some experiments here on Synthzone as well for everyone to learn from.

What TRASH.............Just kidding,,Super job, it sounds great .
The only thing missing is a hot Blonde singing over top of your playing...
I would like to hear some more, with maybe a little more walking bass..

Robert you only live 10 minutes from Uncle Dave[Fairless Hills] and I [Levittown]..it seems a shame we can't hookup somewhere to say hello...a breakfast place..or a music store..