Folks just got confirmation from Yamaha that the new Motif XS series has "Intelligent Chord Recognition". Using this feature under Performance Mode with the XS allows the XS to trigger chords like an arranger. It's coming folks. That fine line between arranger and synth is fading out! It won't be long before the two become one Here's the response I got from Yamaha to my question regarding this feature:

My Post on Motifator:
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Yamaha_US,

I saw the new video on the XS. However, a member mentioned something in his review of the XS8 that has caught my attention and if it's true then the new XS will bring a HUGE smile to the faces of another market of Yamaha keyboard players.

I saw the member posted:
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"I tried the jazz performances and the intelligent chord recognition kicked in beautifully. It followed my chords quite naturally".
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Intelligent Chord Recognition??? WOW is the XS also functioning like an arranger too. If that's at least part of the case then I say WOOOOOOOOOOOOWWWW!!! A full fledged synth/workstation with arranger capabilities would be nothing short of AMAZING!
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Yamaha's response:

Yes, intelligent chord recognition.

And , yes , Wow.

But the very cool thing is that this is completely different than anything that has been developed before because you can very easily mix and match different arps with chordal intelligence.

So instead of fixed styles bundled together, each " virtual player " can be playing his own style just like in a real band,

Here's an example.

Take a jazzy/funky drum groove
Take a straight ahead 16th note rock bass part
add a reggae guitar

Then you got a virtual band that sounds like early Police.

Take the same bass part
add a straight 80 rock drum groove
add a straight 8th note rock guitar
Put a sync synth lead over the top
Now you have the Cars

These are just examples that happen to be from the 80s, but there are 6000 arps so taking Ambient drum grooves, adding a hiphop keyboard to house bass, etc gives you new things that have never existed before

Squeak,

Do you know if the chord recognition will recognize ON BASS chords?

They are sometimes known as "slash chords" like C/G or Fmaj7/E for examples.

Ian

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Common misconception...size and weight equal quality and performance. Don't be fooled.

This facility would be great in a normal arranger because we could just pick the appropriate style parts to make up our own style then save into a registration.
A Factory Registration Bank could be provided as default to fall back on.

Yamaha keyboards already provide a Style Mix & Match and Roland has the Make-Up Tool.

I changed from a Korg Trinity V3 Pro and a Korg Karma to a Tyros 2 at Christmas, because I wanted the accessibility of an arranger again.....and now one of the top of the range Synths seems to have a "virtual band" backing similar to an arranger.........hopefully we'll get one of those monsters in the shop in due course!!

I've asked the Yamaha rep if it will recognize those types of chords, so when I get a reply I'll post it here.

Squeak

Here's the answer to ON BASS chords. This answer came from a Yamaha rep.
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They will recognize 9ths, 11ths and 13ths and on bass chords. But the fun really begins when you combine the two and have two arp recognition windows.

The you cna do things that no arranger can do like play a C6 bass line over a series of chords in the right hand that moves down chromatically from E flat major 7, to D major 7 to C Major 7
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Squeak

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9LaWsCwMo3U

http://www.motifator.com/motifxs/motifxs.php

I'd also love would like to see this guy program & play some cha cha, waltz, foxtrot, shuffle, merengue, ....etc etc on the Motif xs instead of the always present funky styles & bits & pieces demos !

[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 04-07-2007).]

But it's not an arranger right? Can you play intros and endings and fills on the fly like an arranger?

The Wersi OAA (Open Art Arranger) can do any type of chord recognition you require, including any of the chord recognition systems that are available on arrangers and workstations.
Also Wersi are shortly to introduce an arpeggio option.
Enjoy whatever you play

Bill


[This message has been edited by abacus (edited 04-07-2007).]

Mike,
The Motif XS is a full synth/workstation. It's not a dedicated arranger, but with this newer feature it's bringing some arranger abilities to the synth world. It's just a start I guess, but a good one at that.

Squeak the big problem Yamaha & other manufacturers is in educating the users of arrangers & synth programmers on HOW TOP USE THESE wonderful instruments via Demos, Videos, Live workshops etc etc .....with out that many people or potential buyers will stay clear of them because of the unknown & the separation of the musicians mindset, all styles of music must be addressed with these instruments that's what the world is made of ....If people dont understand them or see a need for them with THEIR Music they WILL NOT BUY THEM & the BIG DIVIDE will remain forever, for example out of all the patterns & arps etc on the Motif how many are Ballroom, related, or Latin, or Worship etc etc not many see my point... .....the arranger styles & synth patterns must be part of HYBRID.It is time for a meshing of the masses regarding Arrangers & Synths....we'll see in the future.


[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 04-08-2007).]

You're right Dnj. That is a big problem from the manufacturers. There's also another BIG problem IMO. Features like the "Intelligent Chord Recognition" on the Motif XS doesn't get the attention it deserves because Yamaha themselves know the negative stereotypes associated with arrangers, yet they do see how useful a keyboard that has both synth and arranger fetures is to the market.

The problem is Yammie won't fully market that feature because they know they'll lose potential sales. There's still a huge group out there that feel any type of arranger feature just flat out means "toy". It's sad really. I still feel anyone could benefit from having both types of keyboards in their setups.

Squeak

[This message has been edited by squeak_D (edited 04-08-2007).]

I'm afraid that the minute Yamaha put a Bossa Nova preset into the XS, they will lose about 25% of their target audience because no self-respecting hiphop player is going to want to play anything that 'old fogey' guys are going to like...!

It's kind of like how the most popular new music is usually determined by how much their parents hate it! The more you hate it, the more they like it!

Seriously, though, although the XS has some 'intelligent' chord recognition, it is a completely different way of using it, to trigger arps and drum patterns that, yes, with an enormous amount of work you COULD almost get arranger-like capabilities, but it is not going to come preset like that.

Unless Yamaha spend a fortune re-voicing it and redoing all the arps to be able to handle more 'arranger-like features' such as Intros and Endings, Break/Fills, dedicated fills between 'scenes', it's only going to appeal to a VERY small minority here that still play to the MUCH younger crowd.

As we can see from the posts on this thread, most of you are concerned mostly about whether it behaves just like a 'real' arranger, or wanting to see cha-cha and waltz styles demoed. PLEASE.....!

This end of things is already MORE than dealt with by the Tyros line. Why would Yamaha spend a fortune (and alienate all the urban, hiphop types!) by turning the XS into a Tyros?

If you don't perform primarily to youngsters, this is NOT the 'board for you. It's a great workstation, and I'm considering getting the module version just for the SA voices to work with my G70, but I can't see putting in the MASSIVE amount of work needed to change it into an arranger that us older guys could use....

I think people are missing the point here. There's no way Yammie would convert the Motif to a full arranger. Shit they'd lose a HUGE chunk of buyers by adding waltzes, polkas, and more traditional styles to the Motif, and adding fills, variations and fully orchestrated styles. Yes it would end up being a T2 with XS sounds.

The bigger picture here is to have a workstation with "some" arranger like features. That's the key to the whole thing. A workstation doesn't operate like an arranger with fills, but you can do realtime pattern switching with them (similiar but not exactly like an arranger). In a video you can see a rep from Yamaha using the chord recognition, and he's muting parts, and I think even switching patterns in realtime. Adding chord recognition is a great step forward. That feature alone is very welcomed into the synth community.

I myself am not wanting the full arranger features on a synth, but to have some of the arranger functions carried over would be nice. I don't want polkas, waltzes, ect on a synth either, but it's very pleasing to see some basic arranger functions being carried over.

Squeak

I cant agree with you boys.....a musicians job is to create music ..ALL TYPES OF MUSIC from Hip Hop to Yes my friends Polkas & beyond there is enough of all genres to go around this world dont be fooled by the stupid hype these manufacturers and purists give off Ive never bought that & if your smart you never will either....Creating music is for all the world in many different slices & branches....if you dont offer it to all you only hurt yourself big time in the end....think about it!

I disagree DNJ. People buy musical equipment, cars , clothes and just about any thing for numerous reasons, not simply because of the products use.

If an arranger keyboard similar to the PA1X had also the much deeper sampling and effects routing of the XS with funky contemporary styles i would buy it especialy if it did not have the polkas, fox trots etc on it. I am a relatively younger arranger musician and see most of those styles as a waste for my purposes. Unlike a lot of potential purchasers of these instruments , i have looked beyond the image of arranges and beyond the umm pah umpah styles and grasped the underlying creative potential of the instrument for my purposes. I have had to put up with a lot of stick from other musicians along the way and still do sometimes.

Image does matter. A high end synthworkstation with arranger capabilities will sell but if you throw in polkas and waltzes it will not. mainly because the high end synth market will not attract the majority of the OMB community who dont even use half the features on their existing arrangers and if they did buy it then the normal purchasers of high end synths will distance themselves from those purchasers by buying something else.

I think yamaha have pitched it about right for now and depending upon sales they may well add intros and ending but i doubt very much if they will add older traditional styles

[This message has been edited by Spalding1 (edited 04-08-2007).]

sorry, double post

[This message has been edited by Spalding1 (edited 04-08-2007).]

I agree with Squeak. While it is nice to see some arranger features being added to these new workstations, to have all arranger features ported over would just confuse the market. Yamaha have a clearly defined product range - Motif, PSR and TYROS, and they all serve their target markets well. I can't see Yammie messing with these.

I've often thought about investing in a Motif, but at the end of the day I know it wouldn't suit my needs (plus many features would go unused). Best to stick to what works best for you - and in my case that's an arranger