Squeak the big problem Yamaha & other manufacturers is in educating the users of arrangers & synth programmers on HOW TOP USE THESE wonderful instruments via Demos, Videos, Live workshops etc etc .....with out that many people or potential buyers will stay clear of them because of the unknown & the separation of the musicians mindset, all styles of music must be addressed with these instruments that's what the world is made of ....If people dont understand them or see a need for them with THEIR Music they WILL NOT BUY THEM & the BIG DIVIDE will remain forever, for example out of all the patterns & arps etc on the Motif how many are Ballroom, related, or Latin, or Worship etc etc not many see my point... .....the arranger styles & synth patterns must be part of HYBRID.It is time for a meshing of the masses regarding Arrangers & Synths....we'll see in the future.


[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 04-08-2007).]

You're right Dnj. That is a big problem from the manufacturers. There's also another BIG problem IMO. Features like the "Intelligent Chord Recognition" on the Motif XS doesn't get the attention it deserves because Yamaha themselves know the negative stereotypes associated with arrangers, yet they do see how useful a keyboard that has both synth and arranger fetures is to the market.

The problem is Yammie won't fully market that feature because they know they'll lose potential sales. There's still a huge group out there that feel any type of arranger feature just flat out means "toy". It's sad really. I still feel anyone could benefit from having both types of keyboards in their setups.

Squeak

[This message has been edited by squeak_D (edited 04-08-2007).]

I'm afraid that the minute Yamaha put a Bossa Nova preset into the XS, they will lose about 25% of their target audience because no self-respecting hiphop player is going to want to play anything that 'old fogey' guys are going to like...!

It's kind of like how the most popular new music is usually determined by how much their parents hate it! The more you hate it, the more they like it!

Seriously, though, although the XS has some 'intelligent' chord recognition, it is a completely different way of using it, to trigger arps and drum patterns that, yes, with an enormous amount of work you COULD almost get arranger-like capabilities, but it is not going to come preset like that.

Unless Yamaha spend a fortune re-voicing it and redoing all the arps to be able to handle more 'arranger-like features' such as Intros and Endings, Break/Fills, dedicated fills between 'scenes', it's only going to appeal to a VERY small minority here that still play to the MUCH younger crowd.

As we can see from the posts on this thread, most of you are concerned mostly about whether it behaves just like a 'real' arranger, or wanting to see cha-cha and waltz styles demoed. PLEASE.....!

This end of things is already MORE than dealt with by the Tyros line. Why would Yamaha spend a fortune (and alienate all the urban, hiphop types!) by turning the XS into a Tyros?

If you don't perform primarily to youngsters, this is NOT the 'board for you. It's a great workstation, and I'm considering getting the module version just for the SA voices to work with my G70, but I can't see putting in the MASSIVE amount of work needed to change it into an arranger that us older guys could use....

I think people are missing the point here. There's no way Yammie would convert the Motif to a full arranger. Shit they'd lose a HUGE chunk of buyers by adding waltzes, polkas, and more traditional styles to the Motif, and adding fills, variations and fully orchestrated styles. Yes it would end up being a T2 with XS sounds.

The bigger picture here is to have a workstation with "some" arranger like features. That's the key to the whole thing. A workstation doesn't operate like an arranger with fills, but you can do realtime pattern switching with them (similiar but not exactly like an arranger). In a video you can see a rep from Yamaha using the chord recognition, and he's muting parts, and I think even switching patterns in realtime. Adding chord recognition is a great step forward. That feature alone is very welcomed into the synth community.

I myself am not wanting the full arranger features on a synth, but to have some of the arranger functions carried over would be nice. I don't want polkas, waltzes, ect on a synth either, but it's very pleasing to see some basic arranger functions being carried over.

Squeak

I cant agree with you boys.....a musicians job is to create music ..ALL TYPES OF MUSIC from Hip Hop to Yes my friends Polkas & beyond there is enough of all genres to go around this world dont be fooled by the stupid hype these manufacturers and purists give off Ive never bought that & if your smart you never will either....Creating music is for all the world in many different slices & branches....if you dont offer it to all you only hurt yourself big time in the end....think about it!

I disagree DNJ. People buy musical equipment, cars , clothes and just about any thing for numerous reasons, not simply because of the products use.

If an arranger keyboard similar to the PA1X had also the much deeper sampling and effects routing of the XS with funky contemporary styles i would buy it especialy if it did not have the polkas, fox trots etc on it. I am a relatively younger arranger musician and see most of those styles as a waste for my purposes. Unlike a lot of potential purchasers of these instruments , i have looked beyond the image of arranges and beyond the umm pah umpah styles and grasped the underlying creative potential of the instrument for my purposes. I have had to put up with a lot of stick from other musicians along the way and still do sometimes.

Image does matter. A high end synthworkstation with arranger capabilities will sell but if you throw in polkas and waltzes it will not. mainly because the high end synth market will not attract the majority of the OMB community who dont even use half the features on their existing arrangers and if they did buy it then the normal purchasers of high end synths will distance themselves from those purchasers by buying something else.

I think yamaha have pitched it about right for now and depending upon sales they may well add intros and ending but i doubt very much if they will add older traditional styles

[This message has been edited by Spalding1 (edited 04-08-2007).]

sorry, double post

[This message has been edited by Spalding1 (edited 04-08-2007).]

I agree with Squeak. While it is nice to see some arranger features being added to these new workstations, to have all arranger features ported over would just confuse the market. Yamaha have a clearly defined product range - Motif, PSR and TYROS, and they all serve their target markets well. I can't see Yammie messing with these.

I've often thought about investing in a Motif, but at the end of the day I know it wouldn't suit my needs (plus many features would go unused). Best to stick to what works best for you - and in my case that's an arranger