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#127753 - 01/01/02 01:32 PM PSR2000: Disappointing Chord Recogntion in 'Full Keyboard' mode !
Scottyee Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/01/99
Posts: 10427
Loc: San Francisco Bay Area, CA, US...
I usually only play the PSR2000 in ‘AI Fingered’ or ‘Fingered mode’. I would prefer to play in ‘full keyboard’ mode, but I’m really disappointed in the way the PSR2000 recognizes chords in ‘full keyboard’ mode. For some reason (in ‘full keyboard’ mode), when you play a chord inversion in the left hand and then play (with your right hand), any note one octave above one of the notes being played with the left hand (other than the chord’s root note), the chord is recognized as an ‘on bass’ chord. This means that if you play a 1st inversion C7 chord (E2-G2-Bb2-C3) with your left hand, and play (in your right hand), the note E3 or G3, the chord will be recognized as an ‘on bass’ chord C7/E and the auto accompanmint bass part will play an E note repeatedly. This in itself is not neccesarily bad, but it can sound jarring & inappropriate when playing a melody or soloing in the right hand, as the chord recognition (and associated bass pattern) will shift unexpectantly back and forth between C7 (C bass line pattern) and the C7/E ‘on bass’ note (single E note) as you play the scale: C3 – D3- E-3 – F3 – G3, A3 – Bb3 – C4. The Technics KN arranger keyboards (thankfully) do not implement ‘on bass’ chord recognition when playing in ‘full keyboard’ mode.

I’m trying to figure out if Yamaha intentionally implemented ‘on bass’ chord recognition in ‘full keyboard’ mode, or if it’s just a bug in the PSR2000 which needs to be corrected. Does the PSR9000 or 9000pro implement ‘on bass’ chord recognition in ‘full keyboard’ mode too? I personally think implementing 'on bass' chord recognition when in 'full keyboard' mode was a stupid idea as it can produce unexpected (unmusical) results.

I really would like to at least have the option to turn the “on bass” chord recognition feature (when in 'full keyboard' mode) off. I wonder if Yamaha would consider this in as OS update? The PSR2000 already includes a separate ‘on bass’ chord recognition mode , so I can’t figure out why Yamaha implemented this ‘on bass’ thing as a part of ‘full keyboard’ mode too. Interested in hearing from others regarding this.

- Scott
http://scottyee.com
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#127754 - 01/01/02 03:12 PM Re: PSR2000: Disappointing Chord Recogntion in 'Full Keyboard' mode !
Uncle Dave Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/01/99
Posts: 10892
Loc: Philadelphia Pa, USA
I think most full kb modes will get confused with alot of "one note" solos. That's the purpose of having a split mode - each part has a job to do, right?
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Everyone, and everything I listen to is my teacher. Every instrument, every voice, every sound in nature ... they are all my private tutor ... 24/7 for free.

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#127755 - 01/01/02 09:37 PM Re: PSR2000: Disappointing Chord Recogntion in 'Full Keyboard' mode !
Scottyee Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/01/99
Posts: 10427
Loc: San Francisco Bay Area, CA, US...
Uncle Dave,
On Technics KN6500/6000/5000 arranger keyboards, I'm easily able play in 'full keyboard' mode (two handed with right hand playing either a 'few' or 'a lot' of one note solos) without any chord recognition problems . If Yamaha eliminated the 'on bass' chord recognition when in 'full keyboard' mode, I'm sure it would solve the problem of playing the PSR2000 in 'full keyboard' mode. Maybe Yamaha could learn something from Technics here. I'm just curious 'how many' people out there actually successfully play Yamaha PSR keyboards in 'full keyboard' mode, the way Yamaha currently has the PSR2000 set up. - Scott

[This message has been edited by Scottyee (edited 01-01-2002).]
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#127756 - 01/01/02 11:04 PM Re: PSR2000: Disappointing Chord Recogntion in 'Full Keyboard' mode !
Kmac Offline
Member

Registered: 02/06/00
Posts: 43
I really enjoy using the pianist mode on the technics keyboards and pr pianos. It gives me the opportunity to use some more advanced voicings / chord subs on the fly ( with accomps). It's very good for accompanying horn players as well. I wouldn't really want to be with out it.


[This message has been edited by Kmac (edited 01-01-2002).]

[This message has been edited by Kmac (edited 01-01-2002).]
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Kelly

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#127757 - 01/01/02 11:06 PM Re: PSR2000: Disappointing Chord Recogntion in 'Full Keyboard' mode !
Uncle Dave Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/01/99
Posts: 10892
Loc: Philadelphia Pa, USA
For me, if I'm playing full kb mode, it's because I'm doing a piano solo thing - no need for any fake accmpt.
_________________________
Everyone, and everything I listen to is my teacher. Every instrument, every voice, every sound in nature ... they are all my private tutor ... 24/7 for free.

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#127758 - 01/01/02 11:07 PM Re: PSR2000: Disappointing Chord Recogntion in 'Full Keyboard' mode !
Uncle Dave Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/01/99
Posts: 10892
Loc: Philadelphia Pa, USA
Please don't take offence to the "fake" referance - you know what I mean ..... it's all fake (inside the box).
_________________________
Everyone, and everything I listen to is my teacher. Every instrument, every voice, every sound in nature ... they are all my private tutor ... 24/7 for free.

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#127759 - 01/01/02 11:15 PM Re: PSR2000: Disappointing Chord Recogntion in 'Full Keyboard' mode !
Kmac Offline
Member

Registered: 02/06/00
Posts: 43
Uncle Dave when you play solo gigs do you play full keyboard with no accomps what so ever? Just wondering I didn't follow your last post exactly. Wasn't sure if you use any drums or different sounds of any kind
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Kelly

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#127760 - 01/02/02 12:01 AM Re: PSR2000: Disappointing Chord Recogntion in 'Full Keyboard' mode !
DonM Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/25/99
Posts: 15411
Loc: Benton, LA, USA
Scott, I don't use that mode, but I did try it. I don't recall mine acting that way. When I get it out of the bag, I'll try it again.
Happy New Year!
Don
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#127761 - 01/02/02 12:02 AM Re: PSR2000: Disappointing Chord Recogntion in 'Full Keyboard' mode !
Scottyee Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/01/99
Posts: 10427
Loc: San Francisco Bay Area, CA, US...
Uncle Dave: When I want to play 'solo piano' (no drums/bass or any auto accomp) on the arranger KB, I just turn off the auto accomp (ACMP) button. I believe the purpose of 'full keyboard' (pianist) mode is to support auto accompaniment chord recognition across the 'entire' keyboard.

Though playing in split mode is a fine option, as a piano player, the ability to play in 'full keyboard' mode offers you more creative keyboard (pianistic) playing options than split mode can provide, as Kmac (Kelly) attests to as well (advanced chord voicings, substitutions, breaking up chord voicings between hands, etc).

Technics KN keyboards correctly recognizes chords & supports (and quite nicely in a musical way) playing in 'full keyboard' mode w/auto accomp (even when playing melodies/solos with lots of notes in the right hand), so I think that Yamaha should be able to as well. Yamaha could improve its' 'full keyboard' chord recognition by just eliminating (or at least giving us the option to turn it on or off) 'on bass' style chord recognition when in playing in 'full keyboard' mode. - Scott

[This message has been edited by Scottyee (edited 01-02-2002).]
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#127762 - 01/02/02 04:46 AM Re: PSR2000: Disappointing Chord Recogntion in 'Full Keyboard' mode !
Graham UK Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/20/01
Posts: 1789
Loc: Lincolnshire UK
Scott...I have been reading your problem regarding FULL KEYBOARD MODE with interest because I play a lot like this on my EM2000. Full Keyboard Piano with a nice Jazz Style running full accompaniment. Setting my board to Pianists Mode things run fine, Playing full chords left hand with both hands close around middle C. It works with 2 notes added to the right hand melody, but adding a third note right hand adds to the chord played.

My local friend with a PSR9000 has just installed OS Ver 3.1 so I will check his board out for my own interest as well as yours.

Graham UK

[This message has been edited by Graham UK (edited 01-02-2002).]

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