I've been talking recently to others about keyboards, and the issue of weight has come up quite often. I don't understand what everyone is complaining about with the external plugs some makers offer. I don't see what the point is in griping. Everyone want's a lighter keyboard, and when the makers make them lighter by making the power supply external, they really cut down on the weight. I could just imagine if my PSR-550 had that power supply built in.. With the weight of the keyboard, power supply, and (6) D batteries installed, that thing would be quite heavy. I think it was a good move by the industry to do this. They make them lighter, yet so many people still complain... Keyboards today are nothing like what they weighed 25-30 years ago. So quit complaining, enjoy the music, and enjoy life.

Squeak

[This message has been edited by squeak_D (edited 11-24-2003).]

Squeak-d. It doesn't make any difference about the weight of a keyboard.. when you leave it home! But it does if you "gig" and are old! I would like a PSR9000 board, but couldn't carry it! Just my opinion, which I hav'nt given to anyone but you
Keith W. Bailey

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If you carry the powers supply in the same case as the kb ( and, you should )... then you are carting the same weight anyway !

I'm afraid many companies add weight to their keyboards just to make them seem more substantial. Clavia is a counter-example: their 4-octave NordLead2X weighs 11 lbs; and their 6-octave NordElectro73 weighs 22 lbs. Unfortunately, I don't think they are planning an arranger.

I hope they make AR Kb's even lighter in the future comparable to controler Kb's in the 10/12 lb range. And that goes for speakers/amps also!
Gig'n nightly & lightweight go hand in hand!

Lighten Up!

When discussing keyboard weight, nobody appears to mention quality. If its made light then usually the case is thin plastic and the keys are low quality. My present board 9KPro has a steel frame base and excellent high quality keys, So this is bound to make it heavy.
I completely agree weight is important when you are out gigging because of carrying and setting up, but please lets not keep asking for lighter boards or they may finish up being made of cardboard...Ha!!!

Graham UK

[This message has been edited by Graham UK (edited 11-24-2003).]

Graham.... Agreed.. BUT.....needs are needs.
If giggn' pro musicians need something special to forfill their needs on stage, then manufacturers should cater to them by making KB's for all senarios, lightweight equipment with portability/quality for stage & different featured Kb's for home studios. I tried to lift a Mo Es8 in the store a few weeks ago & YIKES you need a fork lift to handle that baby!!
Technology will lighten the load in the future for sure...remember Tube Amps ?...now we have much lighter ones..
see the trend?

I agree with Graham UK, I would like to have the 9000 Pro weight at 11 lbs,
but I don't won't to sacrifice quality for weight.
So give me the 45lbs of quality build, metal frame, great keys, etc. etc.
Denny

after 20+ years of road work with a b-3 and 4
leslies,a rhoades piano and 4 or 5 more keyboards with a full pa just for them, i can't complain about weight(i'm down to one
korg arranger), but i sure do miss the quality and reliability. those keys would
take a beating and still worked night in
night out.

The Motif ES8 is indeed a heavy board (about 66 lbs) but instead of just glueing lead weights under the keys as many makers do, Yamaha provided a counter-balanced action system that feels better than any other board I know of. I'm sure if there was a way to keep the quality of the action and make it lighter then Yamaha would have, so I assume it's as light as it can be considering. I like having the best-quality keyboard for my studio centerpiece keyboard/controller, but my stage board has to be lighter so I use the 9000 Pro, which at 45 lbs is just about as much as I care to carry regularly. If I'd intended to use the Motif for regular gigging, I'd probably have sacrificed the action and a dozen keys and gone with the 76-note model.

On the power supply thing - some external power supplies create noise, and all of them are specialized for the keyboard they go to. Often they have a fairly high-amp output and you can damage the keyboard if you use a generic replacement. I once drove 25 miles to a gig only to find I had left the specialized Kurzweil keyboard power supply at home. Fortunately my wife brought it to me and all was saved, and I special-ordered an expensive spare. But I like it better now that all my keyboards, speakers, etc all use the same inexpensive and common power cord.

There are many space-age materials much lighter than steel, but significantly stronger and more durable. The only reason the 9000 pro was made from steel is that steel is less expensive than graphite/boron composite materials. Strength was probably the last thing on Yamaha's mind when they manufactured that keyboard. Just because a keyboard is heavy does not mean it's a high-quality board. There are much heavier boards out there that sound awful.

Donny is right when it comes to lugging this stuff from one job to another, day in and day out. Lighter is better. Those 36.5 pound Barbetta Sona 32C's sound fantastic, and they don't provide the sweat and back pains my 95-pound Peavey SP5G's produced. I'll take lightweight over heavy as long as I get the same quality sound.

Cheers,

Gary

Clavia uses metal cases and yet its 6-octave Electro73 weighs less than half a 9000Pro. USB-powered controllers can weigh as little as 3-6 lbs, depending on the number of octaves.

Hi Guys,
you make me chuckle.
I used to drag my kn5000 with me every weekend when we went to the holiday house. Used to repak it in it's cardboard carton & lift it into the back of hubby's Ford Utility ( I think you call them pickup trucks?) Then unload it at the other end.
( Hubby's a parapalegic , so he couldn't help)
Eventually I had the brains to buy a hard case for it. Made it heavier again, but easier to carry than in a cardboard box.
At that stage I was 5 foot 5inches weighing about 120lb.
Where there's a will, there's a way. I'd never let the weight of a keyboard determine whether I bought it or not.

best wishes
Rikki

If all you had to carry was a keyboard weight wouldn't be such a big deal. It's getting all the other things to a performance that really make setup a chore. I've found the weight of anything is directly proportional to your age. The older you get, the heavier things are. Being an old dude I've had to resort to technology to lighten the load. One of our earlier ancestors invented a thing called the wheel. After listening to some wise people I invested in a case with wheels and found that was a step in the right direction. ON finding the wheel was a handy thing I got a card with 4 wheels. That reduced the number of trips during setup. Now all I have to do is figure out what to do with the cart? I think I need a lighter one!

Have fun!

Rp

For frequent gig transport, I too gotta have the lightest keyboard (within reason) as possible. Some plastics today are stronger than steel yet a fraction of the weight. Lightweight portable convenience is the trend in most all areas of the market these days (from MP3 players, cell phones,laptops, PDAs, etc), so I see no reason why portable arranger keyboards shouldn't share in this advancement as well. For years, we keyboard players have had to suffer bad backs hauling our 60 - 100 lb axes while we watched with great eny, our musician counterparts (guitar & horn players etc) quickly popping their instruments back in their case and easily taking off with it single handed. Technology has FINALLY made it possible for us keyboard guys as well to enjoy the instrument transport ease that we've envied with other musicians for so long.

I urge arranger keyboard manufacterers to not only continue striving towards producing a strong yet light as possible '60 note arranger', but also to make sure its size (length, width, height) is kept as small and compact as possible as well. - Scott

Maybe we need a keyboard with a buit-in stand with wheels. Foldable and easy to roll. Anybody seen the strecher bed that the 911 people use to transport patient. That thing is easy to fold. Don't you guys think this is possible. That way no matter how heavy our keyboard at least we can roll it on.

Years ago I used a Farfisa compact Duo KB that had the stand attached...it screwed in under the KB...bass keys [1st oct] were black w/white sharps, next oct was grey w/white sharps...& the rest white w/black..



Talk about heavy? Ouch!

Whoa! Pick that sucker up and get ready for your next hernia surgery.

Lighter is definitely better,

Gary

I owned the Motif ES7 for a short period and by golly if Yamaha didn't go and make the ES7 almost 2 1/2 lbs. heavier than its predecessor the Motif7 "classic". Weight was one of the main reasons I switched and got a Tyros instead. Don't get me going on the other reasons as to why I got rid of it. Small LCD....... complicated Midi integration... No Loop Crossfade feature..... Whoops! I said I wouldn't go into it. I can just picture it now - two years from now Yamaha will come out with the next generation Motif that has a much bigger LCD and better Midi compatibility/useability and yes, even the Loop Crossfade feature. Plus it will weigh "less" than the current model and even the original model. Now THAT will be the time to get a Motif. But I have to say the sounds on the ES are wonderful. I know, I know, I'm picky but so should we all be before coughing up such large amounts of cash. Don't settle for a glass of milk when you could own the cow. Egads! I'm getting off topic here. Yes, lighter is definitely better.

Best regards,
Mike


[This message has been edited by keybplayer (edited 11-24-2003).]

Many years ago I was wonderng about getting one of the 88 Note "PF" series Yamaha pianos... until I saw 4 people trying to carry a flight-cased version up some stairs....

Well, I agree it would be nice to have lighter kb´s but I´m not complaining about what they weight today. And I carry my psr2k every now and then..

Maby I´m not complaining because perhaps psr2k is light weighted or just that I´m still young

Ah, I remember that Farfisa Combo Compact, the Leslie 145, the Peavey 600XRB, two Peavey 3-ways, mics, stands, equp bag. and sign. UP a steep flight of 18 steps. Oh boy, gimme my 2k, wireless mic and Mackies anytime. Lighter is better!

At least the other boys in the band lended a hand back then.

The psr2k is one of the very lightest around. That doesn't even qualify !

Of course it does qualify!! It´s a KB, right?

Barely ..... it weighs NOTHING.

Dave,

Put another 15 years under your belt and that 2000 will feel like it weighs a ton.

Gary

In the mid-70's I went from a similar Farfisa to a customized B-3 in a black fiberglass case. It was meant to be more portable but in fact the fiberglass case made it even heavier. Plus I had a large two piece Leslie for it. Four strong men and a van required for any moves. The stand that the organ sat on weighed more than my 9kPro does today. Did that for four years then traded it in the minute that Korg released the first CX-3.

[This message has been edited by The Pro (edited 11-26-2003).]

I believe we will be complaining about the weight no matter how light they get.

For example, do you remeber first cellphones that came out. AAARGH! They were heavy!! Today they weight a tiny fracture of what they use to. And we are still complaining "they are sooo heavy, why can´t they make it lighter"...

I can't type anymore .... this mouse weighs a ton !

And this is why I never took time learning to read notes... The damn paper is soooo heavy!!

Weight and cost (I wasn't booking at the time) are what convinced me to return a Kurzweil PC 88. I'm still kicking myself over that one. I then went out and bought an Alesis Q8; I put up with the added weight for a while, but didn't like the feel or sound, so I sold it. I still miss the PC88, but now I console myself with a Mark 5 Grand which plays and sounds just like it - it's 4x as heavy, but I don't move it from the living room. (For sale, one Kurzweil Mark5 Grand).

Just popped in my mind, if future kb´s would get really light, maby even under 10lbs, first thing what comes to mind it would start hopping real badly on even little unstable stand. Like x-stands.

Of course there should then be some sort of screws or something to lock the kb on the stand but I thing it would anyway be quite unstable without having some extra weight on the stand. What do you think?

Actually, the keyboard of the future will probably be something along the lines of something I just saw in a catalot for computer supplies. It was a computer keyboard that was made of rubber and just rolled up like an old newspaper. All the keypads were rubber, the entire board was rubber and it had a thin wire that went to the computer.

The same thing could be done with keyboards, the difference being the guts of the board would be in a small module that would be completely separate. Who knows, you may soon be packing your keyboard around in a small tube. Then, when you get to the job, you just unroll the board, plug it into the module and you're ready to go.

The only drawback is the folks that were always complaining about the keys feel would go completely bonkers.

Cheers,

Gary

gary,just a thought, if what you say happens,just think if you wacked someone around the head as in rolled newspaper,it could sound like a full orchestra tuning up,ha,mike

Gary, I told you to quit guzzlin' that Kick a Poo Juice. Too much and your ears will start to turn green and fall off. Then how 'ya gonna even hear that rolled up newspaper Keyboard you're talking about?!?!?
Are you sure that catalog wasn't a comic book you saw that thing in? I don't think it will fly. There's too many Keyboard purists around wanting the traditional method of playing, ie., standard Keys on a solid one piece unit with a Key bed and a 'frame' to place the Keybed in. You know, like a regular Piano only portable, ie., a "Keyboard".

Once the Wheel was invented it has basically stood the test of time and it sure would be hard to improve upon its design. I doubt we'll ever start making square wheels in the near future for our vehicles or anything else for that matter. The same could be said of the Keyboard design IMO. I think their will be very slimed down versions of the Keyboards we see today. That is; Keyboards that are made of high tech materials that will make them 'much' lighter than they are today. Also the actual electronic Hardware or 'guts' if you will, will be made of smaller and smaller 'parts' so you won't need the big 'frames' that they are encased in now. But I think the rolled up newspaper thing is pretty far fetched IMO. - Stranger things have happened though.

I take it back. You didn't see it in a comic book Gary, you probably saw it in the National Enquirer at the grocery stand.

Uh oh! Here comes the trekkies who are gonna tell me it WILL fly... I'm outta here!!!

Best regards,
Mike

Damn!! If it really gets to rubber kb´s... Then people with rubberallergies would really suffer near you when playing or worse if you self had the allergie..

Would it be hell or what..??

Why not put a virtual keyboard on a laptop touchscreen? Use softsynths and away you go. Or maybe have a dedicated screen/synth, ala the new MusicPad Pro from Free Hand. It could be as long as you wanted it and would be able to show the softsynth controls above the keyboard. Watch out for what you ask, some inventor will make it come true.

I figured you guys would think I just fell off the turnip truck and hit my head on a hard object, so I guess you'll have to look closely at this before you belive it.



Cheers from the looney bin,

Gary

[This message has been edited by travlin'easy (edited 11-28-2003).]

Gary,

I was quite sure you had hit your head REAL bad..

Seriosly it does not look as bad as I thought. Maby it could work, after a great deal of development of course...

But still... It would not be the same

Everybody, just wait. I am conceptualizing a keyboard case with built in stand made of aluminum with wheels and a scissor lift. So matter how heavy the keyboard there will bew no problem lugging them around. There's a lot of cool ideas coming out now. Like a dolly, a truck, and a ladder in one. As far as lift, whick one you guys preferred, the scissor lift or the hydraulic lift base on jack that we use to change our tire. Guys, just be patient ant you will see another cool product. - Dan

Don't follow the big white rabbit guys ...

Gary, I've seen and tried the rubber keyboards. I guess I could get by in a pinch if my laptop keyboard was in bad shape, but a keyboard version??? Just like my touchscreen suggestion, they don't even come close to the tactile feel needed for keyboard playing. Give me a Kurzweil 88 board anytime.

"Give me a Kurzweil 88 board anytime." 10 or 15 years from now, you won't be able to pick up that monster, and by that time the rubber keyboard will be perfected to have the same sluggish key feel as the Kurzweil. But, I could be wrong!

Cheers,

Gary

Well, I've seen and TOUCHED one of those rubber keyboards in Radio Shack. The feel is actualy very similar to the rubber buttons on arrangers and synths. Maybe even better.
I have to admit, I never tried it out while playing music.