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#117691 - 12/19/06 06:43 PM Re: Something interesting Yamaha PSR 3000
Diki Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 12861
Loc: NW Florida
Sorry, Nick, I posted (or started to reply to your post) before your edit. No way I could have known that at the time..... Don't get worked up for nothing.

The thread may bore you, but does the idea seem useful? I'm still waiting to see if I'm the only one that thinks this would be a neat (and fairly easy to implement) idea for some of the more complex arrangers.

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#117692 - 12/19/06 10:44 PM Re: Something interesting Yamaha PSR 3000
Nick G Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/16/05
Posts: 1042
Loc: Sydney, NSW, Australia
It will definitely be a good idea, i agree with you. but then again there would be alot more things on top of my list that i prefer an arranger to have at this stage
_________________________
Roland G70 / Roland BK9 / Yamaha Motif XS6 / Logic Pro X

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#117693 - 12/20/06 12:43 PM Re: Something interesting Yamaha PSR 3000
Diki Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 12861
Loc: NW Florida
So, wish away (it's that time of year!)......

What are the features that you would most like to see on arrangers (especially ones they don't already have)?

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#117694 - 12/20/06 01:22 PM Re: Something interesting Yamaha PSR 3000
Nick G Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/16/05
Posts: 1042
Loc: Sydney, NSW, Australia
2 big things i really wish a Tyros 2 had -

- The arpeggiator that the Synths have.

- assignable sliders

- Full Piano Roll editing in the song/multipad/style sequencers and the ability to plug in a mouse for easy navigation!
_________________________
Roland G70 / Roland BK9 / Yamaha Motif XS6 / Logic Pro X

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#117695 - 12/20/06 03:00 PM Re: Something interesting Yamaha PSR 3000
Diki Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 12861
Loc: NW Florida
Amen to that arpeggiator.... Why do Motifs and Fantoms get that stuff and we get Bossa Novas?

Some of us still listen to music from THIS century!

I'm also a believer in assignable EVERYTHING... Modern arrangers are entirely software driven, why can't I use the buttons AND sliders to do ANYTHING the arranger can respond to. The G70 has one set of parameters the D-Beam can control, another for the FC-7, another for the footswitch, another for the Assign Switches..... etc., etc.. Why can't ANY control affect ANY destination? The fact that there IS a big list of choices, but each is incomplete just smacks of laziness.

My G70 does have a piano roll display for SMFs and Styles editing, but it's rudimentary at best. OTOH, being used to using Cubase since the Atari days, I'm not sure how useful this would be on such a tiny screen. Bad enough on a 17" computer display...... I still prefer to do all my sequencing on the computer, and just USB the file when it's done. Sure wish Roland would port the style making software to a computer. Imagine how easy it would get to develop styles on a nice big computer....! I'd pay good money for that.

Anyway, nice ideas, but in a hijacked thread. Maybe I'll start one that just asks for everyone's input about what else we would like to see..........

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#117696 - 12/20/06 11:16 PM Re: Something interesting Yamaha PSR 3000
abacus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/21/05
Posts: 4875
Loc: English Riviera, UK
Hi Diki
Most of the people that buy arrangers dont use 90% of whats on them, so there is no compelling reason for manufactures to spend money developing extra features. (Open Arrangers probably being the closest you will get)
You can use Cubase on a small screen (Wersi instruments have come as standard with the basic cubase since they were launched in 2000) but as you say the larger the better.
On a separate point I too remember the Atari, and sometimes wish I still had it.
Have a good Christmas

Bill
_________________________
English Riviera:
Live entertainment, Real Ale, Great Scenery, Great Beaches, why would anyone want to live anywhere else (I�m definitely staying put).

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#117697 - 12/21/06 04:43 AM Re: Something interesting Yamaha PSR 3000
seaside Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 11/18/05
Posts: 4
Loc: United Kingdom
Don't forget,if you want to keep reverb the same when changig reg.FUNTION-UTILITY-CONF 1 PARAMETER LOCK tick reverb-seaside

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#117698 - 12/21/06 05:08 AM Re: Something interesting Yamaha PSR 3000
travlin'easy Online   happy
Senior Member

Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 14422
Loc: Forest Hill, MD USA
Bill hit the nail on the head with his statement that 90 percent of the features on an arranger are never used. In fact, I believe the figure may be somewhat higher, possibly as high as 95 percent.

Much of this is because of the software complexity, plus the lousy user manuals that come with every brand of keyboard. NONE, ABSOLUTELY NONE, of the manuals are well written. Consequently, this has a tendency to frustrate the user to the point where they eventually say "The hell with this--I'll just use it like a piano with a drum machine."

I would venture to say that at least 90 percent of the Tyros and Tyros2 owners in my part of the world didn't know how to set the keyboard's EQs.

95 percent of them have never used the Music Finder Directory, and 99 percent didn't know how to create their own MFD, or modify the existing one.

Less than 1 person in 10 uses their onboard sequencer, and a much smaller percentage has taken the time to explore the keyboard's onboard Sound Creator and Style Creator programs--both of which are outstanding.

The number of folks that failed to load the keyboard's driver file in their PC properly is mind boggling, and some never loaded it at all, thinking the computer would just automatically communicate with their keyboard. It's equally amazing that a significant number of keyboard owners have never taken their owners manual out of the plastic bag it was shipped in, let alone read the introduction or features pages.

The bottom line here is the PSR-3000, Tyros and Tyros2 keyboards have more incredible features than anyone can possibly imagine. Take the time to explore your keyboards and all its amazing possibilities.

Manufacturers really don't need to add more features, and as outlined above, most never get used. But, they could improve some of the existing ones such as the LCD display and LED indicator lamps to make them sunlight viewable. Then, before putting the keyboard on the market, compile a well written manual that is user friendly for the average consumer.

Cheers,

Gary

------------------
Travlin' Easy
_________________________
PSR-S950, Bose L1 Compact, TC Helicon Harmony-M, Digitech VR, Samson Q7, Sennheiser E855, Custom Console, and lots of other silly stuff!

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#117699 - 12/21/06 09:09 AM Re: Something interesting Yamaha PSR 3000
Diki Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 12861
Loc: NW Florida
Gary..... Thank God manufacturers do not make product for the lowest common denominator! We would still be driving Model T's if you think they should never make anything better than 90% of the users use.....

And, to be honest, I think you are being a bit harsh about the average user's capabilities... I've seen plenty of amateur users able to utilize well some more esoteric functions. If it weren't for the demand for new features (according to your vision, what demand is there if no-one uses any of it?), you'd still be playing a Rhythm Ace....

If COMPLETE mastery of an instrument is necessary before you feel new features are justified, can you (or anyone?) honestly say that you knew EVERY single feature and capability of your previous arranger BEFORE you chose to 'move on up'..... I doubt it. It's the new sounds and new styles that usually make people move, and the new OS features are a bonus. Some use them, some don't, but it still doesn't stop the new arranger from sounding better.....

I agree that manuals could be better, but as in so many computer-based things, third-party books and instructional DVDs are usually better than the manufacturers own literature, but not many want to fork out enough money for those to make it worthwhile for the writer......

If people are happy at the level they are at, kudos to them! If not, it really doesn't take much work to go and learn the features.....

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#117700 - 12/21/06 06:28 PM Re: Something interesting Yamaha PSR 3000
travlin'easy Online   happy
Senior Member

Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 14422
Loc: Forest Hill, MD USA
Diki,

Believe me when I tell you that I'm not being harsh at all. There are loads of great features that are just never used. And, I must admit, after owning the PSR-3000 since it first became available in this area, I still continue to discover things that just are not real obvious in the manual. That's why there is now a tab at the PSR-Tutorial that is titled "Secrets You Won't Find in the Manual."

Additionally, I know lots of pro players, folks that do this for a living every day of the week. Believe me when I tell you the vast majority do not use 20 percent of the keyboard's onboard features. Granted, they are excellent performers, many of which are far better players than I will ever be. But, a significant number of them have never taken the time to explore the possibilities within their keyboards. It's just the way things are.

Cheers,

Gary

------------------
Travlin' Easy
_________________________
PSR-S950, Bose L1 Compact, TC Helicon Harmony-M, Digitech VR, Samson Q7, Sennheiser E855, Custom Console, and lots of other silly stuff!

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