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#117661 - 12/14/06 08:11 PM Re: Something interesting Yamaha PSR 3000
Scott Langholff Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/09/02
Posts: 3106
Loc: Pensacola, Florida, USA
Hi Eric

Other than that, I agree with you, the onboard Tyros 2 styles are so good that rarely will I use an external style. There's no need to. And when I do use one or test it out, the sound just isn't quite the same.


I will admit though that external styles have greatly improved over the last few years a bunch. I remember going though tons of styles from all over tarnation and once in a while I would find one that was kind of ok.

But now, the converted styles sound incredibly good. Makes me wonder why I sometimes consider getting a Korg or a Roland?

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#117662 - 12/14/06 08:13 PM Re: Something interesting Yamaha PSR 3000
Scott Langholff Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/09/02
Posts: 3106
Loc: Pensacola, Florida, USA
Another thought. Really we only need a few very good styles. Some have mentioned what they called the easy 8. I would say that really 20 or fewer excellent styles could really handle 99.999% of all the music we'd play in the Western world.

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#117663 - 12/14/06 11:33 PM Re: Something interesting Yamaha PSR 3000
adimatis Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/28/05
Posts: 1156
Loc: Oradea, RO
Quote:
Originally posted by Uncle Dave:
Wow. In all the discussions here on the zone, I don't ever recall anyone saying that Yamaha styles were "in your face". That's what people always liked about Ketron and Korg. I play the psr3k, and I use it because the styles are dependable and universal. They lack some pizzzazzz, but they work SO well for so many styles of music. I've never had an AMAZING drummer, so I'm right at home.


i think new roland's styles (e series) are just the middle way, both with usebility and dynamics. you should try them!
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Yamaha S770, Studio One 3, EMU 0404USB, ESI, ATH, Dell. And others.

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#117664 - 12/14/06 11:49 PM Re: Something interesting Yamaha PSR 3000
adimatis Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/28/05
Posts: 1156
Loc: Oradea, RO
Quote:
Originally posted by Scott Langholff:
Another thought. Really we only need a few very good styles. Some have mentioned what they called the easy 8. I would say that really 20 or fewer excellent styles could really handle 99.999% of all the music we'd play in the Western world.



i agree with you. and even more: since the style that are essencial are indeed not many, i think is worthy to put some effort and make/tweak this styles in the very personal way you need them to be. making them would be the best!
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Yamaha S770, Studio One 3, EMU 0404USB, ESI, ATH, Dell. And others.

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#117665 - 12/15/06 12:07 AM Re: Something interesting Yamaha PSR 3000
DonM Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/25/99
Posts: 15809
Loc: Benton, LA, USA
Quote:
Originally posted by travlin'easy:
I sincerely believe the reason you like those converted styles so much is that in the process of conversion those styles were tuned to perfection for the 3000. They rarely sound as good on the orriginal keyboard, and some folks have told me the conversions sounded so much better than the orriginal board that they wondered if they were ever the same file.

If you want "In Your Face" styles, it's just a matter of tuning the keyboard, and or the style to sound the way you like it.

Good Luck,

Gary




I would prefer NOT to have to tune the keyboard. I want it to sound live when I buy it and not spend hours and days adjusting it.
DonM
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DonM

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#117666 - 12/15/06 05:42 AM Re: Something interesting Yamaha PSR 3000
Stephenm52 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/13/05
Posts: 4629
Loc: USA
From the comments looks like I'm not alone with Semilive and Zuki you both are using styles from other boards on Yamaha arrangers.

Uncle Dave, you're right Yammie styles aren't in your face, but they do work well and are dependable. Not to mention easy OS.

Rikkisbears and Gary I'm with DonM in his comment
Quote:
I would prefer NOT to have to tune the keyboard. I want it to sound live when I buy it and not spend hours and days adjusting it.
DonM


Gary, interesting and a good case to be satisfied with the 3000.
Quote:
I sincerely believe the reason you like those converted styles so much is that in the process of conversion those styles were tuned to perfection for the 3000. They rarely sound as good on the orriginal keyboard, and some folks have told me the conversions sounded so much better than the orriginal board that they wondered if they were ever the same file.


Quote:
By Eric The first thing I do with the Yammies is to set the global settings to Stage4.
This gives it a nice dry sound with just the right amound of reverb.
The same for the voice.
A lot of OMB singers use waaay to much reverb. It drowns the voice and of course some mistakes..

Is there a stage 4 setting on the 3000, I don't have access to my keyboard right now. If so where is that setting?

[This message has been edited by Stephenm52 (edited 12-15-2006).]

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#117667 - 12/15/06 11:16 AM Re: Something interesting Yamaha PSR 3000
Diki Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 12861
Loc: NW Florida
In the old days of non-velocity switched drum sounds and no extra 'squeaks' and stuff, it didn't matter if a style part was low velocity, high volume or the other way 'round. But now that things have improved, dialing in the EXACT velocity level to make the sound switch at the correct point, and then balancing it's volume is critical.

Unfortunately, the concept of GM/GS has gone the way of the dodo, despite the usefulness of the concept. SA and 'Live!' voices have all sorts of behavior in them that is completely proprietary, so translated styles just don't work well with these kind of voices, and accounts for why so many T2 users prefer the onboard Yamaha styles.... they are the only ones that address this extra layer of 'detail'.

Plus, many of the drum note assignments are now no longer standard..... half open hi-hats, snare drum 'ghost' notes and stick drags, tom-tom flams etc., work differently from one arranger manufacturer to another. I find much of what makes the Rolands so 'live' is the extra snare ghost notes and other subtle drummer performance things that are so difficult to translate between arrangers.

But also a philosophy difference is there, too. I am always looking for styles that concentrate on the rhythm section and don't add a lot of other parts. That's MY job! I just want a rhythm section that responds to how much I want to put on top, rather than one that stays out of the way because the style itself has already overloaded itself... One of my first tests of usefulness of an arranger's styles is to turn off ALL the non-rhythm section parts, and see if the rhythm section BY ITSELF really rises and falls through the variations in a smooth and satisfying manner. If it really needs the other parts to help out, it's no use to me, because I am the one going to play the other parts, not the machine!

I would REALLY like to see someone take a good crack at using the arranger's velocity response features (Rolands, for instance, have a feature where how hard you are playing the Keyboard Parts adds a little extra velocity to each part, so it responds to your playing... I imagine most others can do something similar) in a more dramatic fashion. Anything that makes the rhythm section more responsive to our playing styles, rather than concentrate on whizz-bang extra parts, is in my mind FAR more useful.

Some arrangers can make whole different parts come in and out with velocity, I believe. Now THAT'S fun to play with.....!

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#117668 - 12/15/06 08:29 PM Re: Something interesting Yamaha PSR 3000
Eric, B Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/15/99
Posts: 1917
Loc: Ventura, Ca, USA
Hi Stephen and Scott,

I just got home from a 14 hour job and am pretty tiered.
I will write step by step how to get there in the morning (to Stage4).
Yes, and it should be on the 3000 too.

Eric
_________________________
Genos, PSR-S970, TC Helicon VoiceLive3, Mackie 802-VLZ3 Mixer, 2 Bose L1 Compact, Electro-Voice ZXA1 Subwoofer

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#117669 - 12/16/06 01:29 PM Re: Something interesting Yamaha PSR 3000
Eric, B Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/15/99
Posts: 1917
Loc: Ventura, Ca, USA
OK folks,

here it goes: to set global reverb/hall effect on the T1/T2 and I believe 3000:

Hit the mixing console button to bring up the mixing console page, then right tab over to effects, then hit the F button "type", then hit button 1 or 2 on the bottom of the screen up (in the block area) to go to reverb which is the global setting for styles, song, R1,2,3,left and vocals, then go to the right hand side on the screen to "Type" and scroll down to Stage4!

That's it. Then save to registration memory.
If you want it even more dry use one of the Room types.
Play with it and see what you like.

A few styles are programmed in the type of Hall1 and are somewhat dry to begin with. If you use Stage4 on those styles you will actually add reverb.
Use Room instead.

Next I went to CMP by using the tab button to the right twice and set it to "club"
That adds a nice punch to the global settings and styles.

Of course for each style and song you have to do the same and save it to registration memory.
If you call up a style from the style banks it will default to factory settings.
Except for the global Club setting, all others will default back unless you use registration memory.

I hope this helps

Eric
_________________________
Genos, PSR-S970, TC Helicon VoiceLive3, Mackie 802-VLZ3 Mixer, 2 Bose L1 Compact, Electro-Voice ZXA1 Subwoofer

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#117670 - 12/16/06 04:52 PM Re: Something interesting Yamaha PSR 3000
Diki Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 12861
Loc: NW Florida
I would love to see manufacturers add some kind of global 'offset' to the reverb depth parameter (maybe placed with the overall mastering EQ and compression which doesn't change with registrations/UPGs) to allow you to dial out a bit of overall reverb when you play in very 'bright' rooms, and add in a little for 'dead' ones.

It's easy to make room adjustments with global EQ, but reverb needs can change dramatically from one gig to the next, with no global way of changing it......

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