It would be interesting, if squeak has an arranger (I can't find quickly what arranger you DO have) to have him give it his best shot at creating a hiphop or rap style......

If you can create beats in a Yamaha MO, have a crack at what CAN be achieved in your arranger to illustrate the differences in sound and approach.

After all, despite them being few and far between, the big three DO have playable styles in these genres, just not enough and not enough 'street' on them, so despite the technical limitations of the arranger, it IS possible........

It's just that no-one has gotten around to trying to make their own that has any feel for the style........

Just a note of history....... although I'm 50 now (except from the neck upwards!), and make a living playing for tourists in Florida , back in '81/'82 I used to live in Manhattan and hung with the Sugarhill Gang and knew the Furious Five and Afrika Bombaataa. Great days, great times, but few of us predicted how it would rule the world 25 years later...........

Diki,
That's just it.., I've dropped arrangers and written them off for this style of music because of the limitations.

All I have are synths now. I'm going to buy another arranger (soon hopefully) for the more "traditional" styles.

Believe me if I had a T2 or G-70 or other arranger in my hands I'd be throwing the A-B comparison up in a minute.

Squeak

[This message has been edited by squeak_D (edited 07-21-2006).]

You got a buddy with one???

Yeah don't I wish I had old buddies that owned the PSR-9000, 9000 Pro, and the Roland VA-7. We put those models through the test, and had a better time cracking a beer, and laughing at the attempt afterwards

If any of the big three released a more modern style based arranger tomorrow, I without question would find a way to get it. I'm still waiting.., and hopefully Yamaha builds on the legacy of the original DJX.

Squeak

Guys, I am giving everyone in SZ an opinion from a 22 year old who has been brought up with Hip Hop, R&B and Modern Dance.

The New Yamaha boards (T2 and PSR3k) are definitely way ahead in that department IMO (FOR ARRANGERS ONLY - NOT MOTIF OR MO SERIES)...

I have heard all the G70 styles and some from the Korg PA Series and the Technics KN7. Yamaha is definitely the closest to the real thing.. thats virtually the reason why I chose yamaha in the first place, becuase of its modern contemporary beats and synth sounds..(I dont tend to play so much the Jazz, soul, gospel, or country styles)

I have never heard a better dance drum kit on any other board in terms of quality and punch as on the Yamaha's

The PSR 3K probbably doesnt have the editing capabilities as much, but I have found myself not needing to even bother since Yamaha has got it spot on from the start anwyays...

I spent sooooo much time on my old KN 6500 editing and tweaking basses and drum kits and could never get anywhere near what comes preset with the Yamaha...

If you want to hear some examples I can email MP3 demos of the preset styles on request (UN TWEAKED)...

Cheers

[This message has been edited by Nick G (edited 07-21-2006).]

[This message has been edited by Nick G (edited 07-21-2006).]

thanks for the beats Squeak. I didnt get a chance to comment before. well done sir !!!

Diki wrote:
"We also need to put pressure on the arranger makers to allow us to make ANY track a 'drum' track - in other words, even if it uses a melodic element, not
just a drum kit, we should be able to disable the transposing of it when we change chords in the left hand (I don't know of any arranger that does this,
but I'm only really familiar with Rolands)."

This can be done on the Gem Genesys. I can get 8 drum tracks in a style on the Genesys and the track does not transpose when you change left hand chords. Actually, Gem has had this feature to my knowledge since 1997.

Hiphop on arrangers.
As a person who has been producing beats for over 10 years, (hiphop being one of the genres) I would say it is possible to produce a good hiphop beat on a high-end arranger.

Now you can not do a whole hiphop CD all from an arranger, but you can get a real good sounding beat on a high-end arranger if you are creative, you know your keyboard and you put in the time to make a beat.

If people are saying that you can not make good modern sounding hiphop beats on an arranger, and that is based on a PSR 3000 or other arrangers in that group, then it is not the full story.


You really have to try it on a high-end arranger and know how to use the editing features of the arranger. When I say editing, I am not just talking about sound editing, but also effects editing, EQing, the use of the pitch bend and so on. Obviously, the ability of the arranger to sample or to load sounds and samples is crucial.


I suppose you can start with factory hiphop styles and edit it, but as others have stated here, hiphop styles on an arranger a just not good.

I was more talking about creating something from scratch.


I have done this on my Genesys. I have found some bass drum sounds that work for hiphop. I say “found” because unless you take the time to explore the keyboard and go beyond the first 3 or 4 pages of sounds you would not know they are their.

Then with the sound editing capabilities and effects you tweak it until you get something good and fresh.

I know a lot of persons who like to rhyme to some of my beats created on my Genesys.


Even persons who made beats on Motifs and Tritons always said they like some of the drum and synth sounds on the Genesys even with out tweaking the sounds or effects. You see, on the Motifs and Tritons, in order to get good sounding drum and other sounds, you have to use effects and EQ.


As stated here, the sounds of hiphop changes almost weekly so what you can do and sounds good today, is old news next week. The Triton and the MPC was and still are to some extent the number 1 hiphop tool then the Motif. Now it has just busted open to computer softsynths. Basically, now it is any thing goes. What ever you can use to make your beats to sound good, fresh and different is acceptable. You have to be creative and think out of the box.


O K I think I have let enough cats out of the bag.



[This message has been edited by to the genesys (edited 07-22-2006).]