After trying the 9000 for a few weeks I'm going to return it to Guitar Center. They are probably not going to like me very much.

I tried very hard to like the 9000 better than my X1. I absolutely loved the vocal harmonizer and vocal processing. It is extreamly simple and easy to use, and it sounds very good.

I thought the guitars were of great quality. I can see how someone who does a lot of country such as DonM would like the guitars. I thought they were very good.

I liked the organs too. They were pretty good sounding. I thought the Leslie simulation could be better but the organs were very good.

There is soooo much support out there for the Yamaha. All kinds of styles and stuff.

Yet in just about every other area I still prefer the Solton. Even with the changes that Donny recommended I still thought the styles were lifeless. The brass and woodwinds sounded much better than the 2000 but still (in my opinion only) not nearly as real as the Solton's.

For me the buttons for intros fills and variations are placed just right on the X1.

I know the 9000 is a great keyboard it just didn't impress me enough to part with my X1. I know that 10 years ago I would have given my eye teeth for a board that was this good.

Some people prefer Fords and some Chevys. I guess I'll just wait for the next generation of keyboards to come out.

The thought of the SD-1 is interesting. My Guitar Center doesn't stock it, too bad .........

Regards,

Tom

Hi Tom,
Did you like the fell of the buttons that select "voice ,style,ect.? What I mean is are they real button switches or just dimple switches. Thank you for your help!
jedi

Dimple switches on both. I did like the feel of the Solton's keys better. Also by default even the organ voices are touch sensitive. They weren't on the Yamaha.

Hey Tom, I seen your name credits on the TV show "ED"..I didn't know you were a TV star..

Tom,

Sorry the 9k unit wasn't for you. I would suggest you somehow try out a SD-1 or buy from a place with a return policy. The new SD-1 layout is better then the X-1 and you still get all the great sounds/styles in a better overall navagational package.

Hi Tom,
Thanks for the reply, I`ve been trying to find out about the panel switches for a while now, Big help, BTW have you seen or played the Gem WK8SE? I did hear that they have "real switches" and keys that do not feel "spongy", But on a KB one of the most important sounds for me would be "organ sounds" and I`ve read that the wk8se uses real B3 samples.
Any way thanks again
jedi

Tom....I think you made the right choice!! For my money the X1 is super. I have the SD1 and also prefer it over the 9000. The Yamaha is a quality pro keyboard but the SD1 is something special, at least to me it is.

Tom,
I saw THIS one comming. There are a lot of things about the 9k and the pro that make it stand out over the smaller psr units, but the sound is not a HUGE difference. Mostly access and construction.
Too bad you're not happy - now you know how I feel. I doubt that I will ever REALLY be satisfied with my setup. The X1 was the last thing that really excited me alot, but as soon as I realized the shortcomings, and decided that it was not for me - I had to part with it immediatly. As soon as I KNOW that I'm not keeping a board - it HAS to go. FAST. Life's too short to play keyboards that make you crazy !
(That's why we have WOMEN !)
>
>
>
>
HOLD ON girls! - That was high praise ..... sort of an "uncle-ism". I adore women, but they DO make me crazy !

Jedi - No I haven't tried the Gem keyboards.

Fran - I've been telling my wife that I'm a star for 30 years now.

Donny & JC - I would like to try the SD-1. I'd better not order one from Guitar Center right now. I don't think I'm their favorite person.

U.D. - The X1 really is a good fit for me. I don't use it in the same manner as you do. On solo - trio work I use the arranger all the time. To me the X1's shortcommings are its fair to poor acoustic piano, fair guitars, and good but hard to understand vocalizer. It has never given me any trouble since I sent it in for a tune-up, I've never run out of notes, I can plug bass pedals into it and play it like an organ, and to me the overall sound (styles, drums, and voices) is pretty good. I wanted to like the Yamaha, I wanted the assurance of Yamaha reliability, there is great support and a ton of styles available for the Yammaha on the internet, and there are great guys on this forum that play them and are willing to help if needed, but in the end the 9000 left me uninspired.
U.D. did you get rid of the 9000pro?

Donny, Fran, U.D., my wife and I are thinking of going to NYC for our 30th anniversary sometime after May when she is done teaching for the school year. If this works out maybe I could actually meet you folks. Donny already invited me to his dance club so I could hear how the 9000 is supposed to sound.
If this becomes a reality maybe you guys can give me tips on how to enjoy NYC without going broke. Maybe we could sleep in the subway ............

Tom

Tom,

Heres a good place to start for a trip to NYC


http://www.frommers.com/destinations/newyorkcity/
http://www.newyorksbest.net/
http://www.tripadvisor.com/Tourism-g60763-New_York_City_New_York-Vacations.html

Tom,

I totally agree with you on the 9000. I traded in my X4 for a 9000pro last year and I quickly returned it. I tried really hard to like the 9Kpro, knowing there are so many nice features on it. But after owning a Solton, the 9Kpro just wasn't for me. Now I have the SD1 and I totally enjoy playing it. The sounds and styles are great. With the built-in 6GB hard drive, vocalizer, sampler etc. it's really a bargain.

Get one from Dano, you won't regret it.

Henry

Tom, they shouldn't offer the 30-day return if they don't want you to use it. I think you gave both keyboards a fair trial and honest appraisal. Even if you ARE wrong.
DonM

If I played better left hand chords, and didn't mind the size and weight - I would have kept the 9kpro, but since that's NOT my bag ..... it had to go.
I'm terribly disapointed with everything offered at present, and to compensate, I've been bringing my guitar out more often. I also have been using more sequences than normal, just because I can't make the 2000 remember the few little set ups I need for a comfort zone. It's no big deal - I can wait till they make a truly pro board, but I just hate what's out there today.
It's been a long, long time since I had the feeling that "This one's THE one " !
While the manufacturers try to get it right - I'll concentrate on the vocals and the tunes, and just play a simple, energetic rendition of whatever pops into my head. I can't get too attached to any styles that might not be here in a few months, and I AM getting the urge ............
I hope the update chips show up soon, but I doubt that they will.
It's really sad - there is so much GOOD out there, but they all have MAJOR drawbacks for my needs. Maybe I'M the odd duck.

Don,
You are right. I must be wrong because my wife has been telling me the same thing for 30 years.

I could believe Kentwood, MI on the outskirts of Grand Rapids but not Kentwood, Louisiana. Are you sure, it looks like she has all her teeth? We know that the toothbrush was invented in Louisiana. If it had been invented in Michigan it would have been called the teethbrush.

Hello Tom,

I am sorry to hear that you didn't like the 9kpro. I have one and I think it offers much
more than the SD-1 or X1.
I guess it depends what kind of music you play and what exactly you look in a keyboard.
If you look for a board with nice preset styles and sounds you will not even look at the 9kpro. Its factory setting really sucks and can not be compared with Solton.
But if you need a board that will give you more opportunity for creative work other than just gigs, 9kpro is much better choice.
What I really mean to say is that if you are looking for arranger + workstation 9kPro is much better than SD-1.
I wanted to buy SD-1 on the first place but after spending hours on my friends SD-1 I decided to skip it. I have figured out that even with its fabulous presets it could get me bored very easily due to the following reasons,
1. No arabic drum kit
I am not playing oriental music but I think that arabic percussion becomes more and more popular in today's music and if you want to play "Desert Rose" by Sting or some tunes from Shakira you need to have possibility of having that drum set too.
SD-1 and X1(regular one) doesn't have this.
2. Sampler memory not expandable
SD-1 has 16Mb and X1 8Mb. If you need it more, you can't do anything about it.
9kpro can be expanded to 65 Mb. I did full expansion on my 9kpro for less than $30
because memory is soo cheap.
Today more and more people make really incredible pro samples of drums or sounds which you can not find in any keyboard and I think that in the future sampler will become very important part of any arranger. Therefore, more memory will be really appreciated. If you don't have it, you'll have to sell it.
3. Plug-in boards
This is where the 9kpro is a big winner.
If you want to get the latest, improved sounds on your keyboard you don't have to buy a new keyboard. You simply buy the latest plug in board and you can have completely new sound engine on the board, not just the sounds from the "on-board"sound engine.
That's how you can end-up having DX-7 sounds on you 9kpro which you can not just make by toggling presets.
Again, If you don't have it, you have to sell it.
This new "modular" strategy is more and more used by manufactures in their latest products, Roland RD-700, Motif, Triton ...

You can easily convert SD-1 or any style and play them on 9kpro and you have solved the style problem. Also, you can buy new sampled sounds and download in 9kpro although I think with combination of 3 layers on 9kpro you would be suprised how good sounds you can achieve. You just need to be creative.
I can play Roland arabic styles on my 9kpro and make it sounds like DX-7 or AN-1 synth but with SD-1 and X1( regular) you can't do it. Also there are much better samples of instruments made on pro samplers then Solton's presets.
So basicly I can make my 9kpro sound like SD-1 or X-1 but you can't make SD-1 play as DX-7 or other synths simulated by plug in boards on 9kpro.

That's why I think the 9kpro is more Pro then other arrangers, or it is better to say it is not just an arranger it is a workstation too. You can do much more with it then with SD-1 or X1 because of above mentioned limitations, you just need to be creative.

Cheers

Denis007

Hi Denis

I agree 100% with your post.
Before to buy 9000Pro I tried Sd1 for one week:good voices,styles...excellent for a superb demontration but for my day/day gigs I think that 9000Pro is the best,because I must to evaluate this topics.
1-Easy operation.
2-Clean styles.
3-Diferent buttons for each function.
4-A lot of styles available.
5-Ergonomic pitch and mod . wheels.
6-Gooseneck lamps.
7-Multi function dial.
As bossa nova player, I must say that Ketron Bossas are very weak.Who made a bossa style with maracas don't know Tom Jobim pieces...
Chico

Dennis and Chico:
Great assesment of the 9pro. I own one, a PSR2000 and an X1 as well.
With the exception of it's weight, size and lack of speakers, this machine has it all over anything else on the market. As Dennis says, it is not only an arranger but a full flesh "work Station", that means not only is great on "live" performance but for "studio" work as well. Also features like being able to add a computer Keyboard for fast file naming and parameter selection, or interactive programming for the MFC10 foot controller, it makes it a snap to program it. Also, of all the keyboards I have ever own, the PRO has the most advanced, best natural sounding vocal harmonizer I've ever heard. The note Harmony is also flawless and seemless. Style editing is fast and can be done almost on the fly. It's Pianos, Brass, guitar, strings and percussion sounds are peerless. Ergonomically, placement of buttons is on the right place for both hands access. Mike settings couldn't be easier and more comprehensive. Due to the amount of features, learning Curve on this machine is far steaper than most others, and this may be quite overwhelming and discourage most people who buy it at first, if you are not patient(as most of us are), you will miss out on possibly the best arranger ever built today. You really need to burn the "Midnight Oil" to tame it. For a hooby I fly Radio Contolled Helicopters(I own 7 of them now. obscene!) and fly Airplanes as well and helis are infinitely more intricate than planes to setup and flight. Same case here. But if you want reliability, versatility, interactivity and a comprehensive machine in all aspects, this is the machine to own. I truly feel that I finally purchased my "last" keyboard.
Since I only have the board only for a month, I am still discovering features I didn't know it had. I performed twice with it and spite the weight and size of it(thank God for wheels on the case), it's a "keeper". It performed flawless.
In a negative coment, the manual falls short of explanations on some of it's advanced features and, I have not been able to make the "parameter Block" to do what it's suppose to do, block. Maybe one of you guys can tell me something I don't know about this problem.
Dennis, you've mentioned that other styles can be easyly converted and played on the PRO. can you shed some info on how to accopmlish this? I'd like to convert some of the X1 styles to the PRO.
Mario

Denis:
I forgot to ask you. You mentioned expaning the sampler's memory to 64mg. Could you tell me what kind of chips you used and where did you buy?
Thanks
Mario

Hi Mario.

Wow....
We are looking for same way.
I am flying radio control (1 and 2nd war scale models ) last 25 years.
I'll send to you some RC photos.
That is my second passion.
The first, 9000Pro of course.
Regards,Chico

HI: Mario
Here is a link to X1 styles already converted
to Yamaha PSR. http://www.spectromagic.com/cgi-bin/ftp.cgi
It is toward the top of the page, all of the styles there are
for PSR keyboards, some only have 2 variations.
They are free, but you have to join the group
thats is also free.
Hope this helps.
Enjoying the 9000 PRO
Denny
PS Click on the (Click Here to Enter)

[This message has been edited by dlstarry (edited 03-05-2002).]

[This message has been edited by dlstarry (edited 03-05-2002).]

Thanks Denny. I will give it whirl.
Mario

Hi Mario.

My Brother and I are members of the Derbyshire Radio control flyers (UK) DRCF , and we build our own Planes (we started off with "US Aircore" many years ago, and these are used to "Train" you (you can crash them (Like we did - but "refly" them - unlike the bolser type ones) My Brother has scale models now, and to those that have never tried flying a Model aero plane...don't do it without a tutor! you will spend most of your first session picking up the pieces (in the case of bolser ones of course

About the Yamaha 9000, hmmm!. Well, I'm so glad you are happy with it Mario, and I also agree with you that delving into the depths of the machine will give you more insight into it...and bringing better results/Sounds as well!. As a Technics KN6500 Owner, I envy the Yamaha Pro for it's Polyphony (126 with up to 8 Elements per sound), and the ability to add Plug in boards that add EVEN MORE Polyphony! (And also differnet kind of synthesis boards) There are some Demo's here on the Boards available for the Yamaha 9000..they sound super! This link here will take you to the Yamaha Pro, but you will also be able to listen to demo's of hundreds of sounds, from Motif to CVP209, Samplers, Drum Machines, oh and the boards for the Yamaha! Yamaha Sound Demo's

...Keep burning the midnight Oil mario


Jupitar5


[This message has been edited by Jupitar5 (edited 03-05-2002).]

Jupitar:
I flew the US Core Colts 45 as one of my first airplanes, in fact I used it to learn some aerobatics and fly inverted, but not w/o a few crashes. You are right, you could "slam" these planes into the ground and they would "unrinkle" themselves for another flight. Lots of fun!. Anyway, thanks for the feedback on the PRO. I was wondering if you had problems with the "Parameter Block" as well? May be we are due for another version upgrade at this time.
regards,
Mario

Hello Mario,

I am glad that you share opinion about the 9kpro superiority.

Regarding the styles conversion ...
I am using program called EMC which basicaly converts styles from other keyboards (Roland, Korg, X1 ...) to 9kpro.
Denny is wright, the link that he gave you has tons of styles converted from other boards to PSR format already.It also has the CVP209 styles which you have to download into 9kpro. They are amasing !
Many of those styles do have just two variations because they were probably converted by EMC. The EMC version that I have converts the data to PSR8000 format and it looks that the PSR8000 had only two variations. But the problem can be easily solved by merging two "two variation" styles into one. You simply go and a style using "easy edit" on your 9kpro and then you can assembly and mix different variations from different styles into one.
On the internet link mentioned above usually they have two versions of the same style like Disco1 and Disco2. Usually it means that one, for example X1 style with 4 variations was split into two 9kpro styles with 2 variations. You can download them and merge them later on, on you 9kpro so you get an original 4 variation style.

Regarding the memory ...
I bought regular SIMM memory which is used for computers.
I have followed the specs described on pg.185 of 9kpro manual.
I have tried also EDO SIMMs but they didn't work properly, so I suggest you go with regular SIMM memory chips, no EDO, 70 ns or faster. Other specs(dimension, number of chips) you can find in the manual.
The SIMM memory is an older memory and it is not present so much in the computer stores but I have seen it around. I have personaly purchased it through newsgroup where they sell computer parts. Also I have notices many of these chips on E-bay. You just search for SIMMs. You will find them.
Just try to to follow the specs as described.
I think yamaha also sells these chips but they are so expensive.
I bought two 32M chips for $25 from a computer guy through the local newsgroups on the net.

If you have more questions, I will be glad to help.

Cheers

007

Denis:
Sorry I miss spelled your name. Thanks a mill for all the information. I will see if I can obtain the EMC converter, I sure could use it since I have quite a few styles that I've created for the X1 and like to use on the PRO. I also have a few old computers with plenty of old memory chips, I would not be surprise if I can upgrade this K/B for $0.00 based on your recomendation. I will follow the instructions on the manual. I've already installed a HD into it so is not that is something so new for me to do.
Again many thanks, Regards,
Mario

HI: Mario
If you are looking for EMC here is the guy
to talk to. He sells them, Give him a Email
Fran Carango
E-mail Address(es):
francarango@nni.com

Enjoying the 9000 PRO
Denny

I can see this forum is very Yamaha friendly!
Tom I agree with you 100%! I have tried the 9000pro and all the other Yamaha arranger KB's. What has been said about the 9000pro is true, no doubt about it, it has more features related to a "Workstation"
type of KB. Yamaha is a gazillion times bigger than Ketron. But for me, to sit down and "just" play one song after another and enjoy the HELL out of it, the SD1 is the ONE!!
You talk about styles!! I have more than I can use right now!! I purchased this thing to have fun playing and I do! Maybe it's my age but the "Natural" sounds and styles are in a different league than anything else I have ever owned year to date!
There certainly is more places to see, hear and purchase the Yamaha. This is not make it a better KB. I have said enough.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Jupitar5:
[B]Hi Mario.

My Brother and I are members of the Derbyshire Radio control flyers (UK) DRCF , and we build our own Planes (we started off with "US Aircore" many years ago, and these are used to "Train" you (you can crash them (Like we did - but "refly" them - unlike the bolser type ones) My Brother has scale models now, and to those that have never tried flying a Model aero plane...don't do it without a tutor! you will spend most of your first session picking up the pieces (in the case of bolser ones of course

About the Yamaha 9000, hmmm!. Well, I'm so glad you are happy with it Mario, and I also agree with you that delving into the depths of the machine will give you more insight into it...and bringing better results/Sounds as well!. As a Technics KN6500 Owner, I envy the Yamaha Pro for it's Polyphony (126 with up to 8 Elements per sound), and the ability to add Plug in boards that add EVEN MORE Polyphony! (And also differnet kind of synthesis boards) There are some Demo's here on the Boards available for the Yamaha 9000..they sound super! This link here will take you to the Yamaha Pro, but you will also be able to listen to demo's of hundreds of sounds, from Motif to CVP209, Samplers, Drum Machines, oh and the boards for the Yamaha! Yamaha Sound Demo's
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Well J5
Building & flying radio control model planes now Eh! Oh! well I suppose that's a new line from you.
As for the rest it's a funny thing we seem to have heard it all before on all the other forums current & old
By the way I see you have blanked your latest profile
Regards Johnnie

Tom Cavanaugh
I think you are doing the right thing. You gotta get the keyboard that feels right for you.

The styles as others have said can be downloaded from the net ... x1,psr2000,cvp209,technics,ect... so if it was just styles ... I would think you didn't try them yet! There are lots of styles that are not good on the net too.

As to the layout of keyboard ,it's what you get use to ... the psr9000 was overwhelming for me in the beginning ... but after a couple of weeks I liked it ... and I downloaded MULTIPADS,Registrations,and put in hard drive and sampling memory and 1250 midi's in the 5 banks. There were threads on the psr sytles forum about adjusting the SOUNDS ... from the Bland Factory settings... WOW ... what a difference ... I forget ...they wrote why Yamaha did it that way... but I forgot now... but ... anyway ... Take it BACK and get what you want!

The styles, sounds,ect can all be adjusted but the keyboard layout is gonna stay the same!

The reason I liked the psr9000 was because of the build in speakers and I just plain liked it better after playing the 9000pro in SAM ASH ... so ... I do understand ... you like what you like! End of Story!
rgtaa
P.S. I turned on my psr9000 a few days ago and I thought the sax and other sounds didn't sound right ... I turned it on and off ... and still was upset ... then I looked at the 2 wheels at LEFT of keyboard ... one was resting in upright position ... moved it almost to off... and BIG SMILE came back on my face! AHHHH... SAX sounded good again!

[This message has been edited by rgtaa (edited 07-04-2002).]