I just want to add my opinion to the main topic (The Pro leaving this Forum).
I have always enjoying being a member of Synthzone, even if the focus here has always been more on gear and less on music. It's a fact that the times of greater activity on the GAK Forum have coincided with the release of a new arranger keyboard and the last great "burst" dates back to the PSR 3000. I, like Jim, am a member of other music "Fora" as well, and personally right now the place I enjoy visiting most is the Music Player Forum. Even there people talk a lot about gear: the only difference is that they talk about Motif, Triton, Fantom, Andromeda, etc. and not about arrangers keyboards, but almost every day there is at least a thread about music. Right now there is a guy from Brazil who asked how he could play a Deep Purple organ solo and people from all over the world took their time to analyze the Jon Lord solo and give their advice, going to the point of indicating the fingerings he should use!
I have to say that there is a great deal of music proficiency going on there and, by comparison, the only time here on Synthzone people seem to talk about music (and not gear) is when they ask for a midifile ( ) or -at best- for a music sheet. Maybe that's something to do with the fact that many people here proudly claim to be "entertainers" and not "musicians"?
Sorry for the rambling, but all this is to say that, aside from the specific issue of this topic ("The Pro vs. Alone and Forsaken") I too am posting less and less and -even if am not actually thinking to leave this Forum, maybe because I have developed an affective relationship with it- had to vent my disappointment with the turn things have taken, lately more than ever.
I hope that my rambling can somehow modify things, but really doubt it.
Regards,
Andrea

I think you hit the nail on the head when you said that "many people here proudly claim to be "entertainers" and not "musicians"?"
That type of mentality would eventually lead to other topics other than music. Because, for those persons music and musicianship only really makes up about 25% of their act the rest have to do with what I call “entertainment cosmetics”. Probably no fault of theirs, they have just been socked in to the industry and non-musicians’ philosophy.

So it is not surprising to see topics going from music to gear to other things. When you start talking about entertainment issues rather than musical issues, then put downs would be come more prevalent, “my talent is better than yours” would be come more prevalent and in general egos get bigger and bigger. Hence the heated discussion between Alone and “the pro”.

I'm a musician. And hopefully an entertainer. You can be one without being another but both at once is best!

Excellant statment....I am an entertainer, a singer for over 40 years and still going strong but one day I hope to be a musician as well...working hard to learn the psr3000
and I will have my Tyros in 2 weeks and thanks to the membership, I will have great support and help in learning everthing I need to know...Thanks to members like Gary, Don,Bruce,Jim,UD,Fran and many many others that contribute to this forum daily and thanks to Nigel for putting up with us....

Nigel, please add my best wishes for a speedy recovery for your Bride.....

Tony

Tony as a singer don't you consider yourself a musician? Singing is musical. I think you can be a musician without being an entertainer, but you can't be a singer without musical ability.
Now trained musician is another thing, but most great innovative musicians the world has ever known have not always been the most or best trained. IMHO
I think when I say I am an entertainer not a musician I would be closer to the mark if I said my voice was my instrument. And my keyboard is a background.

Mike, I agree wholeheartedly with your statement...as a singer, I do use my voice as an instrument but to me a musician is someone who can make music while playing a hard instrument, a classical pianista is so
wonderful to watch and listen to...oh I could only dream....that's why at my old age
I'm getting into learning to play the piano/board....I started with the 2100 in Dec
04 and quickly went to the 3000 by Jan 05...
now I'm waiting for my Tyros that should be here in 2 weeks, I'm now like a Sponge Tony
trying to absourb all I can as quick as I can
I've been blessed with my voice and have done really well with it, it's all natural, I
sing all the songs in the original keys but I want to learn how to play, be a real musician. I hope that you can understand this
I never thought that at 65 years young I would be learning to play .....

Tony

I agree 100% with you Tony, I also love the instruments. My objection is to the people that think that singers are somehow inferior becuase they "only" sing.
I'm sure we all know alot of great and not so great musicians that can't sing at all.
I'm 55 Tony, and find myself in your shoes except in a former life I was a guitar player but am now learning the keyboard. I got my Tyros back around Oct. And I too owe the members of this forum a great deal in helping me progress to this point.
I know there are a lot better players, and singers. And more experienced entertainers, I consider myself lucky that I was able to keep music as a hobby and make my main living at something else.
But for some people to feel so superior that they don't have to treat everyone else with common courtesy that they demand, is a shame.
After all we're not curing cancer or feeding the hungry, or solving world peace.

Mike....Areatha Franklin said it best..
All I need is a little RESPECT...give everyone their just due...we are all trying to survive together for a short period of time on this earth...hell, if we can't get along in peace on this little forum, how in the hell can we expect people all over the world to get along with each other in PEACE.
Man lets stop the crap and get along. Besides the common denominator of us all being HUMAN, we all share another...MUSIC...
don't fight just make music

Tony, you NAILED IT!

I've said before that if we all lived in the same town, we would all be chasing the same jobs...we'd be competitors. Sadly, I think that, today, competition isn't always friendly. Entertainers have egos (we all do).
We have to believe in ourselves, and sometimes, civility goes by the wayside.

I'm here for the duration, due to folks, young and old (Pennywizz to Bebop). If I ever think I can't learn, I should give up.
Phil has renewed my faith in young people, and BeBop is to be admired as a jazz standard bearer who is still open minded enough to explore. How GREAT is that? AT 15, Phil knows more about computers than I'll ever know, and I'd LOVE to get a chance to play and learn from our Cruise ship playing buddy!

Lets ALL commit to cutting through the crap,
appreciating what Nigel makes possible and
and exploring the "wonderful world" of music together.

And, above all, sharing is what music is all about.

Best PERSONAL regards to all,

Russ

Ego problems ...No...you guys can fight it out , to see who's second..