let the kids have it.......disappeared?

Did someone pick up their toys and go home. Maybe that last post about not being missed was too much on target?
The childhood phrase about dishing it out but not being able to take it comes to mind.

Sometimes things get old and it's just time to move on. Maybe that's what The Pro did. Jim was simply saying goodbye and maybe we turned it into something else. Although I prefer to let posts die their own timely deaths, Jim has every right to delete his. I hope he lurks in the shadows and chooses to post sometime in the future. Until then - Good luck and thanks, Jim.

Cass

Maybe it's the above attitude that he couldn't take.

I think it's best to give the benefit of the doubt, especially to someone who has been such a valuable contributer to this forum as The Pro has. IMO, Cass is right on.

Thanks, Jim... hope to hear from you again in the not too distant future.

Glenn

I seem to recall seeing Jim's name on the roster for the East Coast Jam.
I hope he has just logged out for the jam starting Friday morning April 15th, and will return to us once again after the jam as he has before.
I will be one of the first to welcome him back. This dude has a trermendous talent and is always helpful to all that ask.
Punks come and go but Pros are here forever
Bebop

I think if you are willing to dish it out you have to be willing to take it.

The “Pro’s” contributions were very valuable. But often times with any type of communication, it is not just what is said but how it is said. Regardless as to how great the information is. You can not put down other person’s artistic expression and or try to belittle the person and expect to be received well by people.

What made it worst is that instead of sticking around and trying to mend differences (even if it meant admitting some personality or communication short comings), he resorted to calling members here names like “kids” and packing up and leaving.

I would say however, it was clever to have that posting about leaving to get favorable comments and or sympathy. I am not saying it was intentional but it didn’t seem to be a bad byproduct.

Hi.

It's not the first time a tread just disappear all that sudden, and as we know, all who start one can delete all of it, or other members who post in it can delete his / hers own posts.
Nigel as administrator can of course do all the editing and deleting he want if nessesary, but usually he use to tell why if he moderatet anything.

In my humble opinion, to delete a tread when someone has written a reply in it is a kind of being arrogant and show disrespect for the members / people who also post in the tread.

Happy playing & posting
GJ

to the genesys and Gunnar Jonny -

Unfortunately, I feel your daggers are out. We can all bristle a few hairs with our comments. No need to bad-mouth a member who has already given his reasons for leaving and then left. Maybe he didn't need or want any feedback to his post. No matter how good, poor, aggravating, helpful - whatever - someone's comments are, we benefit by reading them. It's good interaction. Esch will be missed, no matter the reason.

[This message has been edited by cassp (edited 04-12-2005).]

Sorry if you feel so about my post cassp, it's my personal meaning about deleting of treads since the topic here is about that kind of matters.
About who's leaving or entering to the forums around, I guess it's like the cycle of life, world turns around, some being born and some dies, some trees grow and other fell, but still the world turns around, at least it does so far.
GJ

Sometimes I take a step back too. it doesn't happen all that often, but occassionally... Maybe I became so passionate about an issue that I overdid it and came off the wrong way. It's happened... or maybe I was a` bit too easily offended by what someone else had to say.. it's happened.

Sometimes maybe .. just maybe... I was even right..

I just don't handle it the same way I guess. I tend to just quietly step away, rather than announcing it. I don't mean that to imply that it's a more graceful exit, because when something gets out of control, maybe the only graceful way out is to make a decision to let it go and maybe even apologize for what we contributed to it.. more or less clean our side of the street.

I'm just not always that good at it ( cleaning my own side ) .. but, when I talk about it here, and then reread it, it makes sense to me. I'd instead rather try to remember what's really important in my life at this point...... and bickering in a forum ( or anywhere else ) just ain't part of that.. I hope I become better at that...

AJ

I agree with GJ and don't feel he was attacking anyone. The BBS allows the person who started a thread to delete posts by others in that thread. I can see why somewho who took the time and effort to reply to a topic might feel offended when their post is deleted (with the rest of the thread). I would rather the person starting the topic could just delete their own posts, although the thread might be hard to follow after the lead post was gone.

lets face it life ain,t easy,we all have problems,whats that saying about putting an old head on young shoulders,if you are one of the very lucky few who are born to multi-millionaire parents,well no matter the problem, money can solve all of your problems,but i don,t think i am talking to any of those here,we are born into a world full of pressure,and we become more aware of it when we first start to work for a living,politics good and bad ,well we are in the middle of it and the tough life affects all of us,and sometimes it puts us under so much stress we could explode,ever had a close friend who has been a buddy all of your life turn on you?if someone shouts at you and threatens you,no its not nice ,but what is that person going through?we don,t walk in his(her)shoes we have enough problems of our own,we are sad at others loss and we cheer at their gains (unless we are jealous)sometimes we say something and wish we hadn,t,,,,,well when you are ALL OLD you are going to look back and say i wish i hadn,t said that or done that,if only i could have had my time all over again,,,,well you can,t you get just 1 shot at life,so now is your chance to make those changes NOW,ok you may get someone honking their horn at you or wanting to cause a fight ,what are you going to do punch him on the nose and feel good and then maybe regret it,we can carry on with the thought WELL I WAS RIGHT,does it really matter, REALLY,mike

Amen to all that, nardoni.

I, for one, have had enough of all this stuff. Can we get back to talking about arrangers now, folks?

I know what happened. Check The Bar.
DonM

I guess Jim said what he wanted to say and didn't want the thread to continue any longer than it had. We'll all miss him and I hope he will return to us in the future when he feels confortable here again.

It was mentioned it that thread that someone thought that enlisting more moderators would help. I tend to disagree with that. I don't think increasing censorship would make things better but would just tend to upset people. I feel bad about this situation because Jim had contacted me but I didn't feel it would be appropriate for me to step in and censor postings. Unfortunately I hadn't got round to discussing this with him before he made his announcement about leaving the forums. And it wasn't because I didn't care but because I was pre-occupied with having my wife in hospital for major surgery. It always upsets me when a long time member feels they need to leave. Jim is always welcome back here.

Nigel, Best wishes for your wife.

Ed

Nigel, I hope your wife does as well as mine did last week! You are in our prayers.
DonM

Nigel,
all the best for Kerry! I hope she will recover soon.

Nigel
I totally agree with you about the invectiveness of moderators and that they can create more problems than they solve.I feel that you do a sterling job of monitoring the forums in a fair and unbiased way even when you have your own private problems as you have demonstrated here and for this we can be and are eternally grateful to you.
Although I don't advocate members deleting their own threads because I feel that if they have made a statement and invite replies then they should stand by it even if it invites criticism but then that is only my opinion.
I wish your wife a full and speedy recovery and please pass to her my kind regards.
Johnnie

Nigel,

My best wishes for Kerry as well.

AJ

I just want to add my opinion to the main topic (The Pro leaving this Forum).
I have always enjoying being a member of Synthzone, even if the focus here has always been more on gear and less on music. It's a fact that the times of greater activity on the GAK Forum have coincided with the release of a new arranger keyboard and the last great "burst" dates back to the PSR 3000. I, like Jim, am a member of other music "Fora" as well, and personally right now the place I enjoy visiting most is the Music Player Forum. Even there people talk a lot about gear: the only difference is that they talk about Motif, Triton, Fantom, Andromeda, etc. and not about arrangers keyboards, but almost every day there is at least a thread about music. Right now there is a guy from Brazil who asked how he could play a Deep Purple organ solo and people from all over the world took their time to analyze the Jon Lord solo and give their advice, going to the point of indicating the fingerings he should use!
I have to say that there is a great deal of music proficiency going on there and, by comparison, the only time here on Synthzone people seem to talk about music (and not gear) is when they ask for a midifile ( ) or -at best- for a music sheet. Maybe that's something to do with the fact that many people here proudly claim to be "entertainers" and not "musicians"?
Sorry for the rambling, but all this is to say that, aside from the specific issue of this topic ("The Pro vs. Alone and Forsaken") I too am posting less and less and -even if am not actually thinking to leave this Forum, maybe because I have developed an affective relationship with it- had to vent my disappointment with the turn things have taken, lately more than ever.
I hope that my rambling can somehow modify things, but really doubt it.
Regards,
Andrea

I think you hit the nail on the head when you said that "many people here proudly claim to be "entertainers" and not "musicians"?"
That type of mentality would eventually lead to other topics other than music. Because, for those persons music and musicianship only really makes up about 25% of their act the rest have to do with what I call “entertainment cosmetics”. Probably no fault of theirs, they have just been socked in to the industry and non-musicians’ philosophy.

So it is not surprising to see topics going from music to gear to other things. When you start talking about entertainment issues rather than musical issues, then put downs would be come more prevalent, “my talent is better than yours” would be come more prevalent and in general egos get bigger and bigger. Hence the heated discussion between Alone and “the pro”.

I'm a musician. And hopefully an entertainer. You can be one without being another but both at once is best!

Excellant statment....I am an entertainer, a singer for over 40 years and still going strong but one day I hope to be a musician as well...working hard to learn the psr3000
and I will have my Tyros in 2 weeks and thanks to the membership, I will have great support and help in learning everthing I need to know...Thanks to members like Gary, Don,Bruce,Jim,UD,Fran and many many others that contribute to this forum daily and thanks to Nigel for putting up with us....

Nigel, please add my best wishes for a speedy recovery for your Bride.....

Tony

Tony as a singer don't you consider yourself a musician? Singing is musical. I think you can be a musician without being an entertainer, but you can't be a singer without musical ability.
Now trained musician is another thing, but most great innovative musicians the world has ever known have not always been the most or best trained. IMHO
I think when I say I am an entertainer not a musician I would be closer to the mark if I said my voice was my instrument. And my keyboard is a background.

Mike, I agree wholeheartedly with your statement...as a singer, I do use my voice as an instrument but to me a musician is someone who can make music while playing a hard instrument, a classical pianista is so
wonderful to watch and listen to...oh I could only dream....that's why at my old age
I'm getting into learning to play the piano/board....I started with the 2100 in Dec
04 and quickly went to the 3000 by Jan 05...
now I'm waiting for my Tyros that should be here in 2 weeks, I'm now like a Sponge Tony
trying to absourb all I can as quick as I can
I've been blessed with my voice and have done really well with it, it's all natural, I
sing all the songs in the original keys but I want to learn how to play, be a real musician. I hope that you can understand this
I never thought that at 65 years young I would be learning to play .....

Tony

I agree 100% with you Tony, I also love the instruments. My objection is to the people that think that singers are somehow inferior becuase they "only" sing.
I'm sure we all know alot of great and not so great musicians that can't sing at all.
I'm 55 Tony, and find myself in your shoes except in a former life I was a guitar player but am now learning the keyboard. I got my Tyros back around Oct. And I too owe the members of this forum a great deal in helping me progress to this point.
I know there are a lot better players, and singers. And more experienced entertainers, I consider myself lucky that I was able to keep music as a hobby and make my main living at something else.
But for some people to feel so superior that they don't have to treat everyone else with common courtesy that they demand, is a shame.
After all we're not curing cancer or feeding the hungry, or solving world peace.

Mike....Areatha Franklin said it best..
All I need is a little RESPECT...give everyone their just due...we are all trying to survive together for a short period of time on this earth...hell, if we can't get along in peace on this little forum, how in the hell can we expect people all over the world to get along with each other in PEACE.
Man lets stop the crap and get along. Besides the common denominator of us all being HUMAN, we all share another...MUSIC...
don't fight just make music

Tony, you NAILED IT!

I've said before that if we all lived in the same town, we would all be chasing the same jobs...we'd be competitors. Sadly, I think that, today, competition isn't always friendly. Entertainers have egos (we all do).
We have to believe in ourselves, and sometimes, civility goes by the wayside.

I'm here for the duration, due to folks, young and old (Pennywizz to Bebop). If I ever think I can't learn, I should give up.
Phil has renewed my faith in young people, and BeBop is to be admired as a jazz standard bearer who is still open minded enough to explore. How GREAT is that? AT 15, Phil knows more about computers than I'll ever know, and I'd LOVE to get a chance to play and learn from our Cruise ship playing buddy!

Lets ALL commit to cutting through the crap,
appreciating what Nigel makes possible and
and exploring the "wonderful world" of music together.

And, above all, sharing is what music is all about.

Best PERSONAL regards to all,

Russ

Ego problems ...No...you guys can fight it out , to see who's second..

Fran....now THAT'S what I'm talking about!

regards,


Russ

Fran makes me smile

...and just to think, all these years I've described myself as a "musical entertainer".
Wee, since I went solo anyway!

Trevor

That should be "Well" not "Wee". In England that's another topic altogether.
Trevor

They deleted the "Pro quitting" thread before
I could give my two cents.
To the Pro: we all go through phases, but
don't be so thin-skinned as to let some
punks who couldn't even hold your musical
jock strap, make you quit. The internet is a two-edged sword, so don't let some ignorant
mis-spoken fools deter you away from such a
great forum as this.
There have been others who have felt as you
do presently, and quit temporarily (Uncle Dave, Frank R., to name a few). But they
realized that their experience and expertise were greatly appreciated here.
So please reconsider, or if you do take some time off, please return to fill the void you
left.

Who is "They" ???? Jim ( The Pro ) is the only one ( other than me who would have said so if I had ) that could have deleted the thread he started.


[This message has been edited by Nigel (edited 04-13-2005).]

Ok fine,.... before "the Pro" deleted the thread.

No problem Vquestor, I just didn't want people to think I was freely censoring postings.

Let me splain something. In a hundred years, we'll all be dead. DEAD. Do you understane me? Carry on. With that in mind.

Ya MIKE.....You be right, in a hundred years we all be dead, but I'LL BE BAACK....
Tony

Don't bet on it, but we'll most truly be forgotten or have forgot whatever it was to forget.
GJ