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#105306 - 07/12/07 06:27 AM Little excitement on the S900? why?
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 42592
I haven't seen the big hoopla associated with a new release as in the past with most new KB's on the forums with the S900....
could it be because it sandwiched in between the 3k & Tyros 2 leaving not much in the way of new features & sounds /styles?
I always wondered what was the reasoning for even putting out the S-Line? Where does it fall in in the "NEEDS" category? Yes it fills in the "I wish I had a Tyros2 but cant afford one" scenario.....but I would have liked to see a bit more in the way of some more different, groundbreaking, innovative, user wants, "76 Keys", 2 Mic inputs, Tilt Screen, etc, & other needs features this time around......
whats your take on this?

[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 07-12-2007).]

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#105307 - 07/12/07 07:04 AM Re: Little excitement on the S900? why?
cassp Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/21/03
Posts: 3718
Loc: Motown
Had the S-series had a 76-key board I might have been interested. I sold my PSR2000 and considered a 3k, but opted for the behemoth G70 becuase of the features and reduced price. Yes, the 3k and S900 are much cheaper, but a 76-key board is worth so much, especially once you use one. The S900 just hasn't caught my interest; a 3k might still interest me more.
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#105308 - 07/12/07 08:29 AM Re: Little excitement on the S900? why?
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 42592
Hi Cassp....yes 76 keys is SO comforting, I dont know what Yamaha's reluctance is unless they want to force people to go to their other lines...
Im glad I'm back to using one also.

stay well

[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 07-12-2007).]

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#105309 - 07/12/07 10:34 AM Re: Little excitement on the S900? why?
keysvocalssax Offline
Member

Registered: 03/12/06
Posts: 845
Loc: Miami FL nov-may/Lakeville CT ...
Yamaha keeps pointing to the failure of the 9000Pro..

as if the fact it had 76 keys is why it didn't sell..
or maybe they felt that it put the unit out of reach
price-wise, and they would have been better off
making the same thing in 61 at a lower price?

why can't they get over that? they make several
other 76-key models, but keep saying that after
the 9000Pro they won't make a 76-key arranger again..
they are somehow convinced that a lot of entry-level
buyers opt for 76 keys, but not more advanced users.



------------------
Miami Mo
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Miami Mo

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#105310 - 07/12/07 11:53 AM Re: Little excitement on the S900? why?
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 42592
Lets face it Yamaha Arrangers are not geared toward the pro market even though we do use them with workarounds & restrictions to the best way we can...why can Korg, Ketron & Roland all make a non plastic 76 key arrangers, but not Yamaha?

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#105311 - 07/12/07 12:18 PM Re: Little excitement on the S900? why?
Fran Carango Online   content
Senior Member

Registered: 05/26/99
Posts: 9443
Loc: Levittown, Pa, USA
Because Yamaha is using their plastic supply for other items they manufacture..like plastics parts on Yamaha dirt bikes..

They don't make the Corporate dollars on Pro musicians...just not a large enough market...Keyboard wise, I am sure the Yamaha bucks come from the Home pianos...and dealers make a better chunk on the home piano stuff..

PSR's are without a doubt the home player market....and sorry to say..so are the Tyros models[no reflection on the instrument]..Home players [ like seniors, that can afford this product]..
And the S series is just another generation of midrange home units[PSR's with face lifts]..

The Pro 9000 was an attemt to grab the working Pro market...but I think it suffered because people were thinking , simulation of the PSR lines at the time..Same way Casio suffered sales with the MZ2000[ may have been superior to many other models from the competition , back then]..

I think Roland fair-ed better with the G800 and G1000 because most working pros can see the benefits because of the previous models like the E86...They were not in the class of the PSR's..

I think it is a sure bet that Yamaha will come out with a 76 key model again..They see the respect Korg, Ketron and Roland received with the quality 76 key models...

I think it is the only way Yamaha can compete in the pro market..

The popularity of arrangers is on the increase here in the USA, and the only way it will continue it's growth is the high end quality models have to benefit working musicians...without sacrificing quality...

Look to see Yamaha come through...that Pro9000 bad taste should be gone by now...They can smell the money..

I also think Yamaha is hurting themselves with cheap workstations...Roland too...People will soon forget that they also have top notch workstations and will start judging the Big guys by the junk..[quality wise]..

I am starting to sound like Diki...somebody please,,,,tell me to shut up...Then go to Diki's post and tell him to shut up too..
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#105312 - 07/12/07 01:01 PM Re: Little excitement on the S900? why?
mikeathome1 Offline
Member

Registered: 08/23/04
Posts: 1208
Loc: Syracuse NY
Quote:
Originally posted by Dnj:
Lets face it Yamaha Arrangers are not geared toward the pro market even though we do use them with workarounds & restrictions to the best way we can...why can Korg, Ketron & Roland all make a non plastic 76 key arrangers, but not Yamaha?


I was surprised when I discovered this wonderful forum, that so many pros were out using these yamahas on the job. (I had a psr 2000 that had just come out and it was all the rage. I paid 975 brand new. I see they still go for 700 bucks on ebay.)
For home use and price point I can't think of better boards than Yamaha as far as vocal harmony and effects, complete package. But I never thought of them as pro models. I was even disappointed at quality of the Tyros models.
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#105313 - 07/12/07 01:03 PM Re: Little excitement on the S900? why?
zuki Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/20/02
Posts: 4477
Loc: Michigan
Uh Oh - The Yammy bashers are out! To say Yamaha arrangers are not for the pro market, is truly an eroneous statement

Donny, once upon a time, you were in love with the 3K for live use?

zuki
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Korg PA3X / QSC 8.2s / Zedi-6FX / Tascam DP24CD / Baby Blue and Encore 300 mics / Zoom Q8

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#105314 - 07/12/07 01:09 PM Re: Little excitement on the S900? why?
cgiles Online   content
Senior Member

Registered: 09/29/05
Posts: 6177
Loc: Roswell,GA/USA
Quote:
Originally posted by Fran Carango:


I am starting to sound like Diki...somebody please,,,,tell me to shut up...Then go to Diki's post and tell him to shut up too..


_________________________
"Faith means not wanting to know what is true." [Nietzsche]

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#105315 - 07/12/07 04:33 PM Re: Little excitement on the S900? why?
Nick G Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/16/05
Posts: 1042
Loc: Sydney, NSW, Australia
this topic is very interesting about Yamaha producing Toyish keyboards...

Now that i have a Motif XS, i look at it and think it has come from a complete different company... it just makes a Tyros 2 or a PSR look and feel like a toy.

cant explain it, you just have to play one and straight away u realise the difference. it just looks and feels quality all over...

I still love the Tyros 2 and the PSRs. always have. but like i said, this Motif is just something different. and YES options for 76 and 88 keys!!!
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Roland G70 / Roland BK9 / Yamaha Motif XS6 / Logic Pro X

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#105316 - 07/12/07 05:21 PM Re: Little excitement on the S900? why?
mikeathome1 Offline
Member

Registered: 08/23/04
Posts: 1208
Loc: Syracuse NY
If you go to Yamaha's website http://tiny.pl/fzxn under products all the arrangers are listed under digital pianos and home keyboards. Not under Professional Synthesizers, Workstations & Tone Modules. I love the yammie stuff I'm just saying this is how they classify them.
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#105317 - 07/12/07 08:20 PM Re: Little excitement on the S900? why?
George Kaye Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/24/99
Posts: 3295
Loc: Reseda, California USA
I think I'm the first dealer in the USA to receive my shippment.
I don't think there is little excitement.
From the European members I read only possitive remarks because they've had a chance to play the new 900.
My just arrived today, and I'm blown away with the qualilty of sounds and styles for such a reasonable price. I also think the addition of a hard disk audio recorder is great at this price point.
I think I will sell loads of these new models. I can see anyone with a 3000 loving the upgraded sounds and styles and wanting to upgrade to this board. It has done to the Tyros2 customers what the PSR3000 did to the sales of Tyros1 keyboards.


------------------
George Kaye
Kaye's Music Scene
Reseda, California
818-881-5566
www.kayesmusicscene.com
_________________________
George Kaye
Kaye's Music Scene
Reseda, California
818-881-5566
www.kayesmusicscene.com

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#105318 - 07/12/07 08:32 PM Re: Little excitement on the S900? why?
zuki Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/20/02
Posts: 4477
Loc: Michigan
George,

I trust your opinion and now you have me longing it
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#105319 - 07/12/07 08:35 PM Re: Little excitement on the S900? why?
Diki Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 12861
Loc: NW Florida
Quote:
Originally posted by Fran Carango:
I am starting to sound like Diki...somebody please,,,,tell me to shut up...Then go to Diki's post and tell him to shut up too..


Not much chance of either of us taking any notice, though (but you're welcome to try)

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#105320 - 07/12/07 08:37 PM Re: Little excitement on the S900? why?
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 42592
Quote:
Originally posted by zuki:
Uh Oh - The Yammy bashers are out! To say Yamaha arrangers are not for the pro market, is truly an eroneous statement

Donny, once upon a time, you were in love with the 3K for live use?

zuki


Zuki....The 3k did an admiral job....but I said "WORKROUNDS" in my post....
I made it work for me, although I couldn't add the extra keys I needed to it
that doesn't make it Pro ready.

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#105321 - 07/12/07 09:31 PM Re: Little excitement on the S900? why?
Diki Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 12861
Loc: NW Florida
I simply don't get it...

If Yamaha think that 'pros' need a choice of 61, 76 and 88 keys for their Motif line, why do arranger users only need 61 for their 'pro' Tyros2...?

It can't be cost... can it? They HAVE painted themselves into a corner by making the T2 61 so expensive that the hike the larger keyboards MIGHT entail would push a 76 or even an 88 (wouldn't you just KILL for a T2 with an S90ES form factor? ) into Oasys country. But the truth is, there is very little basic cost difference between a 61 and a 76 note keyboard and case (in fact, there is less than $200 difference between a Korg TR-61 and a TR-76 at retail level and no more than about $500 for TOTL workstations, which the T2 keybed and case don't honestly compare to).

So what would it actually cost Yamaha to find out if everybody that clamors for a 76 T2 is just blowing smoke? Not a whole lot, compared to what they could gain, IMO...

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#105322 - 07/12/07 09:37 PM Re: Little excitement on the S900? why?
Nick G Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/16/05
Posts: 1042
Loc: Sydney, NSW, Australia
just to add to that,

RRP for Motif XS in australia: ($AUD)

XS6 - $4500.00
XS7 - $5500.00
XS8 - $6500.00

thats a thousand dollar different between each model!
_________________________
Roland G70 / Roland BK9 / Yamaha Motif XS6 / Logic Pro X

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#105323 - 07/12/07 09:53 PM Re: Little excitement on the S900? why?
Diki Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 12861
Loc: NW Florida
What's the exchange rate?

About $500USD street price difference between XS 61 and 76 in the US (and they are VERY new and hot - it usually drops after the initial rush is over)

$500US between FantomX 61 and 76
$400US between Korg M3 61 and 76...

Pretty consistent...

[This message has been edited by Diki (edited 07-12-2007).]

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#105324 - 07/12/07 10:00 PM Re: Little excitement on the S900? why?
adimatis Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/28/05
Posts: 1156
Loc: Oradea, RO
the difference in price is rather a marketing decission than a cost problem.
i think yamaha wanted their arranger to be known as only 61 keys. is again the marketing. this way, anyone who does not necessarily wants 76 or more keys, will think automatically of tyros, and skip the other options.
and there are advantages having a lighter and smaller keyboard.
so, yamaha is just happy with this, and probably none of the tyros series (if continued) or psr series will ever have 76 keys again.
probably when that will happen, there will be a new series released, as a "brand new and exciting keyboard". and that will be probably after T3.
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#105325 - 07/12/07 10:03 PM Re: Little excitement on the S900? why?
Nick G Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/16/05
Posts: 1042
Loc: Sydney, NSW, Australia
at the moment the Australian Dollar is very strong.

1USD = 1.22 AUUD.
_________________________
Roland G70 / Roland BK9 / Yamaha Motif XS6 / Logic Pro X

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#105326 - 07/12/07 11:28 PM Re: Little excitement on the S900? why?
Diki Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 12861
Loc: NW Florida
Nick, you are getting shafted, then (or are those list prices, as opposed to street?)...

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#105327 - 07/13/07 09:36 AM Re: Little excitement on the S900? why?
squeak_D Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/08/00
Posts: 4683
Loc: West Virginia
Nick,

See what I've been telling you about the build quality of a pro synth (like your Motif XS) compared to the build quality of Yamaha's Pro Arranger Tyros II..??? It's like night and day!

It really irks me to be honest. Look at the difference in build quality Nick between the two, then look at the difference in price--it just becomes harder to justify Yamaha's VERY high price tag on their Pro Arrangers when you campare the "physical quality" of them to other makers.

When I demoed the T2.., I honestly liked what I heard, but man I just couldn't get passed that cheap plastic construction of that keyboard. Plus that big old $3,500 price tag--in bold RED numbers right in front of me was hard to swallow.

I was just baffled because the key action was so damn sweet, but every time I pressed a button it was just blahhhhh.
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GEAR: Yamaha MOXF-6, Casio MZX-500, Roland Juno-Di, M-Audio Venom, Roland RS-70, Yamaha PSR S700, M-Audio Axiom Pro-61 (Midi Controller). SOFTWARE: Mixcraft-7, PowerTracks Pro Audio 2013, Beat Thang Virtual, Dimension Le.

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#105328 - 07/13/07 12:57 PM Re: Little excitement on the S900? why?
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 42592
Squeak.....could it be that Yammy arrangers should stay home where not much damage could occur......when their synths are made more rugged for Pro uses on the road

[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 07-13-2007).]

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#105329 - 07/13/07 01:08 PM Re: Little excitement on the S900? why?
ianmcnll Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10598
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
My 3k has gigged with me for 3 years...reliability was exemplary...initial price was low enough so that I was making money with it right away.

Plastic is STRONG and LIGHT...remember?

S900 will be a great replacement...still easy to carry, set up and pay for.

I have lots of clients that use the 3k for pro jobs...they are all just as satisfied as I am.

Ian
_________________________
Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.

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#105330 - 07/13/07 01:15 PM Re: Little excitement on the S900? why?
miden Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/31/06
Posts: 3353
Loc: The World
those prices are recommended retail not street...but it should be pointed out that the xs8 comes with a bit mroe than the 7 or 6...built in computer interface, vocoder etc..options only on the others...when it became available i couldv'e got an xs7 for about the same as the sd1+ (under $3500AUS) but there were none available and were not going to be so for several weeks (at the time i bought the sd1+)...mind you i am now considering a move to the Kurzweil WEIGHTED action 76 note piano with the new Ketron SD3 module (the sd5 in module form) might depend on dollars though..
dennis

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#105331 - 07/13/07 02:22 PM Re: Little excitement on the S900? why?
Songman55 Offline
Member

Registered: 06/24/05
Posts: 892
Loc: Baltimore, MD USA
I used a Roland G 800 then a G 1000 for quite a few years. Back then I was still playing in clubs, so the board could sit on top of the grand piano for several days. In recent years I've switched to private parties and retirement communities. With all that moving around the Tyros made more sense. I've been using one for a year now with a hard case. It even got drenched during an outside wedding ceremony and it still plays great. The 76 key thing was hard for me to get around at first because I am a pianist, but I got used to pressing the buttons to extend the board when I need it. If it breaks tomorrow, I'll get something else, but for now, I just did 5 days worth of doubles and it's kicking butt.

Joe

------------------
Songman55
Joe Ayala
_________________________
PSR S950, PSR S900, Roland RD 700, Yamaha C3 6'Grand, Sennheiser E 935 mic, several recording mics including a Neuman U 87, Bose L1 Compact, Roland VS 2480 24 Track Recorder
Joe Ayala

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#105332 - 07/13/07 03:09 PM Re: Little excitement on the S900? why?
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 42592
Quote:
Originally posted by ianmcnll:
My 3k has gigged with me for 3 years...reliability was exemplary...initial price was low enough so that I was making money with it right away.

Plastic is STRONG and LIGHT...remember?

S900 will be a great replacement...still easy to carry, set up and pay for.

I have lots of clients that use the 3k for pro jobs...they are all just as satisfied as I am.

Ian


Ian good to see your up and about again....hope all is well.

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#105333 - 07/13/07 03:09 PM Re: Little excitement on the S900? why?
rikkisbears Online   content
Senior Member

Registered: 12/22/02
Posts: 5758
Loc: NSW,Australia
Hi Diki,
we do get "shafted" over here. Our aussie dollar a few years back dropped to just over 50 cents compared to the US dollar. Now that our dollars gone back up to just over 80 cents, our keyboard prices really don't really reflect the increase in value of our dollar.

Envious of the prices the USA members pay for their keyboards.

I think the prices Nick quoted may have been what we call "Retail" . Most places will discount up to 20% to 25% off retail price. Case of shopping around.
best wishes
Rikki

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Diki:
[B]
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best wishes
Rikki 🧸

SX900, P121 Piano, Band in a Box 2020
V Arranger/Ketron SD2

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#105334 - 07/14/07 03:13 AM Re: Little excitement on the S900? why?
ianmcnll Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10598
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
Quote:
Originally posted by Diki:
I simply don't get it...

If Yamaha think that 'pros' need a choice of 61, 76 and 88 keys for their Motif line, why do arranger users only need 61 for their 'pro' Tyros2...?
...



I don't get it either Diki...why doesn't Roland make a 61-key version of their G70?

The E-80 doesn't really count as it has speakers and is a "home" keyboard.

I'm sure there are many players out there who would not buy a G70 because of it's weight and size....

Ian
_________________________
Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.

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#105335 - 07/14/07 09:24 AM Re: Little excitement on the S900? why?
Nick G Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/16/05
Posts: 1042
Loc: Sydney, NSW, Australia
RRP for the XS 6 is $4500.00 AUD.

if u walk in off the street u will get it for $3400.00 easy.
_________________________
Roland G70 / Roland BK9 / Yamaha Motif XS6 / Logic Pro X

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#105336 - 07/15/07 06:30 AM Re: Little excitement on the S900? why?
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 42592
All KBs should have the 3 options 61/76/88
the influx of controller KB / PC musicians options is another factor in the ever changing production for manufacturers something we didnt have a while back.

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#105337 - 07/15/07 08:49 AM Re: Little excitement on the S900? why?
Diki Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 12861
Loc: NW Florida
Quote:
Originally posted by ianmcnll:

I don't get it either Diki...why doesn't Roland make a 61-key version of their G70?

The E-80 doesn't really count as it has speakers and is a "home" keyboard.

I'm sure there are many players out there who would not buy a G70 because of it's weight and size....

Ian


The truth though, Ian, is that, unlike the MANY that post that they would like a 76 note T2, NO-ONE (other than you, just to make a point, I guess ) has ever posted that they want a speaker-less 61 note G70. In fact, speaker-less 61's are roundly criticized (by you, as well, re. the speaker-less T2!).

So AFTER the clamor for this product goes ignored by Roland (if it ever happens - no sign of anybody wanting it yet!) for years, THEN they will be in the same league as Yamaha...

Nice try, no banana.

Even YOU don't want a speaker-less TOTL 61 note arranger.... (and the E80 is anything but a 'home' keyboard!)

[This message has been edited by Diki (edited 07-15-2007).]

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#105338 - 07/15/07 09:06 AM Re: Little excitement on the S900? why?
ianmcnll Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10598
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
Naaaah, Diki....you know I'm right...only a 76 note as a choice....come on, the other guys do it...except for Yamaha, of course.

I think Roland messed up a good chance...and they don't get a banana either.

The E-80, although bristling with great features, is most definitely a "home" keyboard....certainly too heavy to gig with for most pros, and the built in speakers just bear that out even more....it's not in the same league as the G70.


Ian



[This message has been edited by ianmcnll (edited 07-15-2007).]
_________________________
Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.

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#105339 - 07/15/07 09:33 AM Re: Little excitement on the S900? why?
Diki Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 12861
Loc: NW Florida
Of course you are right, Ian. Always are...

Welcome back.

Does this mean that YOU would like a speaker-less 61 note G70? No?

So I guess you must be speaking for the silent majority, that somehow can't seem to raise the enthusiasm that the 76 T2 enthusiasts have to actually POST their desires. It's a good job they have you to do it for them. Otherwise, another strongly desired need might go unfulfilled...

But of course, you are right. As always. Roland really need to leap to fill an undeclared need. Just as Yamaha need to continue to ignore a strongly voiced one...

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#105340 - 07/15/07 09:44 AM Re: Little excitement on the S900? why?
Diki Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 12861
Loc: NW Florida
What other guys do it?

61 note PA1x has speakers, 61 note Ketrons have speakers, off the top of my head, I can't think of anything other than the T2 with 61 and no speakers.

There certainly doesn't seem to be much demand for them. Unlike 76 no-speaker arrangers. Plenty of those... EXCEPT Yamaha. Somehow, Yamaha seem to have got completely backwards to the rest of the arranger world.

You want a 61 note G70...? E80 if you can handle the weight, E50 if you can't. You'd be surprised at how good the little E50 is, and the speakers don't make it any more heavy than your beloved PSR3K (soon to be S900, NOT T2!)

The need is already filled. But I guarantee that IF the need ever arose (for a 61 G70), as vocally as the 76 T2 need, Roland wouldn't ignore it as long as Yamaha...

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#105341 - 07/15/07 11:47 AM Re: Little excitement on the S900? why?
ianmcnll Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10598
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
Thanks Diki....marvellous replies.

You get the banana!

Ian
_________________________
Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.

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#105342 - 07/15/07 12:59 PM Re: Little excitement on the S900? why?
Diki Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 12861
Loc: NW Florida
"You'll have to speak up.... I have a banana in my ear!"

(Old punchline...)

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