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#100915 - 05/03/03 03:54 AM Re: Re-evaluating the Standing vs Sitting Keyboard Playing Position
trtjazz Offline
Member

Registered: 08/01/02
Posts: 2683
Quote:
Originally posted by brickboo:

If you can play you can do it laying down and people will take note.



Brick,
I agree 100%
Terry



------------------
jam on,
Terry http://imjazzed.homestead.com/Index.html
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jam on,
Terry
http://www.artisans-world.com/

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#100916 - 05/03/03 08:56 AM Re: Re-evaluating the Standing vs Sitting Keyboard Playing Position
Scottyee Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/01/99
Posts: 10427
Loc: San Francisco Bay Area, CA, US...
Quote:
Originally posted by travlin'easy:
Scott,
It's the Digitech FS300, which has a single, 1/4-inch, stereo connection on the back of the switch. I checked the schematic diagram and you can pretty much use it for any function, and if you wish, put together a modified, three-line cable that can go to three different devices. The switch was about $39 at the local music store.
Gary


Hi Gary,

I think I'm confused . Let me see if I got this right: The 1/4" stereo ouput cable from the FS300 switch box plugs into yet 'another'? $39 switchbox used to convert the FS300's stereo ouput into 3 separate mono cable lines?

Please provide more detail how to configure the 'Digitech FS300 3 button foot switch' to work with & connect directly into the 3 footswitch inputs (1/4" mono) on the Yamaha Tyros or PSR2000 (two 1/4" mono inputs). If an 'additional' switchbox is required, what brand/model is recommended? - Scott
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#100917 - 05/03/03 09:56 AM Re: Re-evaluating the Standing vs Sitting Keyboard Playing Position
Uncle Dave Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/01/99
Posts: 11468
Loc: Philadelphia Pa, USA
Quote:
Originally posted by Scottyee:
I just checked those two pictures of you performing in a bar and noticed that they both show you 'seated'


Scott,
That's the only place that I sit, unless it's an acoustic job. The owner spend about $700 on the psuedo-piano shell that houses my keyboard, and it was made to look like a spinet piano ..... so I can't adjust the height of the keys. I have a tall stool, and I often get up during the night just to relax !

If I use MY stand ... I stand.
As to back pain:
I try to limit the overuse of the susatain, but I really do use it alot on piano parts. I get a break when doing dance tunes on organ or brass, and I can readjust to a shouldar width stance on both feet. Ahhhhh....

Playing Clav parts also does not require sustain, so I get a break on the funky stuff too.

Terry ....
No dogs or ponys in my future shows ..... guess you'll have to watch "animal planet" for that level of entertainment.
_________________________
Every instrument, every voice, every sound in nature ... these are are all my private tutors ... 24/7 for free, and all I have to do is listen.

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#100918 - 05/03/03 11:11 AM Re: Re-evaluating the Standing vs Sitting Keyboard Playing Position
Scottyee Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/01/99
Posts: 10427
Loc: San Francisco Bay Area, CA, US...
Quote:
Originally posted by Uncle Dave:
.
As to back pain:
I try to limit the overuse of the susatain, but I really do use it alot on piano parts. I get a break when doing dance tunes on organ or brass, and I can readjust to a shouldar width stance on both feet. Ahhhhh....


Ahhhh . . . It looks like you understand what I'm talking about now , being the acoustic piano is my principal performance instrument (in addition to my voice), the majority of my show consists of me playing the piano patch (along with the sustain pedal) 95% of the time. I've even experimented with moving the sustain pedal as close as possible to where my two feet (standing) are positioned at 'shoulder stance', but once my right foot begins controling the sustain pedal (throughout the song), my body alignment immediately becomes off balance, resulting in lower back ache strain. I can deal with this for 3-4 songs, but by the end of the night. . . . ouch
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#100919 - 05/03/03 11:25 AM Re: Re-evaluating the Standing vs Sitting Keyboard Playing Position
Dnj Online   content
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 40706
Quote:
Originally posted by Scottyee:
, being the acoustic piano is my principal performance instrument (in addition to my voice), the majority of my show consists of me playing the piano patch (along with the sustain pedal) 95% of the time.


Scott,

Just wondering about the above statement.....I'm surprised that your not using a 88 or at least a 76 key "PIANO" with styles/arranger features so you have the key range needed to suit a piano player plus accomp.
There are so many new portable Models on the market.

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#100920 - 05/03/03 12:19 PM Re: Re-evaluating the Standing vs Sitting Keyboard Playing Position
Scottyee Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/01/99
Posts: 10427
Loc: San Francisco Bay Area, CA, US...
Hi Donny: Good question. It admittedly took me quite some time to adapt to playing acoustic piano convincingly on a synth action kb, but now that I finally have, I'm NOT willing to give up its lightweight-small 27 lb gig portability vs dragging a heavier & larger (awkward & longer) 88 note fully weighted arranger board.

I'll admit that when playing a keyboard in 'solo piano' mode, it's a clear advantage to having 88 notes, but, when playing in arranger keyboard (auto accompaniment) split KB mode, as I do on the Tyros, the left hand (left of split)only requires cover 1-1/2 octaves (C1 - F#2), plenty enough to handle all chord voicings & inversions (including the more advanced rootless jazz style), leaving G2 thru C6 (3-1/2 octaves) available for the right hand. This (along with the added option of the octave shift button) provides enough (for me) for my acoustic piano playing in 'arranger keyboard' mode. I suppose I'm now more of an arranger player than strict acoustic piano player now, and adapting piano playing techniques to the arranger. I admit that it's a refreshing joy to play an 88 note acoustic piano along with real musicians (bass player, drummer) and have the opportunity to polish up my I'm sure rusty acoustic piano technique.
Guess it's time to wipe the dust off the Steinway. - Scott
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#100921 - 05/04/03 08:03 AM Re: Re-evaluating the Standing vs Sitting Keyboard Playing Position
travlin'easy Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 14500
Loc: Forest Hill, MD USA
Scott,
The FS300 was orriginally designed to be used with the Digitech Vocalist and uses a single, 1/4-inch, stereo connection at both ends of the cable. However, after looking at the schematic diagram, I was able to constuct a custom cable that has a single 1/4-inch stereo cable at one end, and splits into three 1/4-inch mono cables at the other end. It took a while to figure out the combinations, becuase within the switch box is a series of three momentary switches and two blocking diodes that make all this possible. As for use with the Vocalist VR, the switch on the right turns the harmony on/off, the center switch is reverb on/off, and the left switch is a program selector. I've built several small, multi-switch boxes for some local musicians and there's really nothing to it.

Cheers,

Gary
_________________________
PSR-S950, TC Helicon Harmony-M, Digitech VR, Samson Q7, Sennheiser E855, Custom Console, and lots of other silly stuff!

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#100922 - 05/05/03 12:45 AM Re: Re-evaluating the Standing vs Sitting Keyboard Playing Position
Scott Langholff Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/09/02
Posts: 3106
Loc: Pensacola, Florida, USA
My two cents:

In my rock band chord organ days I stood most of the time.

As I am really an organist, Hammond in the old days and Lowrey now, I always sit. I am a concert, dance music, jazzy type player. I don't sing, but sometimes I play trumpet with my right hand and keyboard with my left hand transposed down to Bb. I've had no problem for me or with any audiences because of sitting down. But, it probably is the reason I really prefer not to use a music rack. I think its important especially in my case that the audience can see my hands move and also I kind of move around on my seat, moving my legs tapping my feet, swaying back and forth etc. I have considered a video camera pointed at my hands with a TV monitor so the audience can really see what I do. I have done this before in concerts and people tend to be quite impressed with it.

As far as everybodys back is concerned, I learned a few things the hard way too. Make sure your wallet is not too thick, filled with a bunch of stuff. Empty it(send me the cash), or make sure you push it to the side so you don't sit on it. You would be amazed how many back aches come from that.

Make sure the heels on your shoes are not worn too much. I can vouch for this one big time.

Since I sit all the time, the trick to doing that for hours and feeling good and comfortable with no discomfort is to sit up straight, or you will have back discomfort, your lungs will not have enough room to get oxigen, meaning less fuel to the brain and body, so you will start to tire very rapidly. Found this out the hard way too. In my work (selling Lowrey organs) we used to spend a lot of time at the store front, standing and playing. At first this was tiring. But once you learn how to balance etc. it gets easy. At one time we had an organ in a Morrisons cafeteria at the mall. I was to play it every day for an hour or so. But I found myself getting tired, sleepy, I experienced lack of concentration and generally didn't play that great and wasn't having fun. After I analyzed it, I found I was leaning forward hunching over (very easy to do on a two manual organ), so I just tried to straighten up for an experiment and this took care of it.

Another example of posture. I have a student with a severe back problem. She was going to give up the organ because she could only play for about 15 minutes before she would have to quit. I spent some time with her shifting positions moving the bench forward and backward, having her sit closer to the front of the bench and then sliding back on the bench. I also worked with her arm and hand position, and helped her find her center of balance. The next day I called to see how it went. She had played for two hours with no back discomfort.

As far as lifting things in and out of a trunk, I can guarentee, the older you get you will not even question that this is very hard on your back, not to mention the joints in your arms and shoulders.

Scott Langholff

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#100923 - 05/05/03 11:42 AM Re: Re-evaluating the Standing vs Sitting Keyboard Playing Position
travlin'easy Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 14500
Loc: Forest Hill, MD USA
Well boys and girls, after reading all the posts on the subject, plus all of the previous posts on the subject from just two months ago, I decided to try standing again.

Last night, while doing a three-hour private party, I tried standing on a heavily padded 2X3 section of plush carpet. Inside my shoes were soft inserts, which I wear most of the time. Keep in mind that I rarely take more than a five minute break between sets, and if the dancefloor is filled, I don't take a break at all.

At the end of three hours, my feet hurt, my back ached and I wasn't sure if I would be able to walk. My knees felt like the Tin Man's in the Wizard of Oz, in dire need of an oil can to get them moving.

Today, after writing two newspaper columns, I set up the X-stand, and tried a stool. Yep, it definitely put me up higher, but made it nearly impossible to reach the foot pedal. Additionally, the distance view the audience would have of my torso would be exactly the same when I'm sitting on my keyboard bench and the keyboard's lowered accordingly.

The bottom line is, for me, standing is out of the question. At the end of a five-hour gig they would have to wheel me out to the van on my refrigerator dolly and break by legs so I could drive home. Sometimes, especially during the past few years, I think I'm getting too olkd for this stuff. when I kick off, someone is going to inherit a lot of good equipment.

Cheers,

Gary
_________________________
PSR-S950, TC Helicon Harmony-M, Digitech VR, Samson Q7, Sennheiser E855, Custom Console, and lots of other silly stuff!

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#100924 - 05/06/03 08:44 AM Re: Re-evaluating the Standing vs Sitting Keyboard Playing Position
Scottyee Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/01/99
Posts: 10427
Loc: San Francisco Bay Area, CA, US...
Quote:
Originally posted by travlin'easy:
The bottom line is, for me, standing is out of the question.


hi Gary: Perhaps standing provides improved audience visability, but except for short presentations (less than 30 minutes), I too can no longer deal with the painful fatigue and backache that occurs during standing kb performance. The bottom line is that no matter how you look at it, standing for long periods (in itself) is hard on ones lower back', but made worse when you have to extend your shoulders, arms & hands forward to play a kb, while at the same time not able to 'maintain' a solid stance on BOTH feet because kb playing also requires lifting up one foot to activate the footswitches (sustain, etc). This basically means having to support your entire body with the other foot, throwing off a centered balance. This is even worse if you play the sustain pedal a LOT (throughout most songs) like I do, as this means your weight is not being supported by both feet for the majority of the evening. I suppose I'll never solve the secret to painless standing position keyboard performance.
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