Hi Bill,
Thanks for linking those two articles. They helped me find a solution.
I will explain what I had to do to use the Ravenscroft VST plugin while achieving a low latency.
But first let me address Diki’s question. What was my objective?
1. OBJECTIVEI watched several comparison videos of Piano VSTs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8VvR5lb8X3Qhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TI59pBb5_7YI decided on trying VI Labs Ravenscroft 275 VST because of the 30% off Summer Sale price of $139 and its small footprint of 5.6GB.
https://www.vilabsaudio.com/Ravenscroft-By-VI-LabsMy objective was to find the best computer to run this VST that would give me an acceptable low latency value.
I have a Roland RD-2000 with the German Concert Grand V-PIANO Expansion Kit.
What made me look for piano VSTs?
The RD-2000 is optimized to be a Stage Piano. The factory Stage Grand Piano is perfect to cut through a mix. The German Concert Grand is a brighter version. While they are ideal voices in a live setting with other musicians on stage, they do not connect emotionally when used solo in a studio environment like a real acoustic grand.
The initial attacks on these modeled piano wave forms lack the richness, bite and tonal character that you get when playing on an acoustic piano.
Listen to how much mellower the Ravenscoft 275 VST sounds that is sampled off a 10ft Ravenscoft Acoustic Grand.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BpwNdtspoWk&list=PLHQtRNr0BitDvc6LSJydAfpI8DBw0phjA2. MY SETUPWhen I first launched the standalone UVI Workstation VST player and loaded the Ravenscroft 275 VST on my Windows 7 PC and connected the Roland RD-2000 as a midi controller, the latency was horrible. This is what prompted me to make my initial post asking for guidelines.
I took a deep dive into the world of Computer Music over the last several days and found the best way to reduce the latency down to 10 msec.
If you are on a PC, do not use the Windows WDM Audio Drivers. The latency is too high around 20 msec.
The best approach is to use an external Audio Interface that uses Steinberg ASIO drivers. This alone would solve half your problems.
I am using the Yamaha AG06 6-channel USB Mixer.
https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/...interface-whiteOpen the AG06 Control Panel for the Yamaha Steinberg USB driver.
Open the AG06/AG03 Tab and set this Sample Rate to 44.1kHz.
This is very important!
Although this mixer supports sampling rates up to 192kHz, do not use anything higher.
The Ravenscroft 275 VST requires the sampling rate to be set at 44.1kHz.
Open the ASIO Tab.
Set Mode = Stable
Set Buffer Size = 32 Samples.
This is very important!
Setting the Buffer Size to 32 Samples will give you an Input Latency of 5.896 msec and an Output Latency of 5.896 msec.
At this lowest Sample Size setting, you would not notice any latency while playing the keys on the RD-2000.
You can layer the internal Stage Grand voice on the RD-2000 with the Ravenscroft 275 VST and you will not hear any note doubling effect.
Of course you need to have a CPU powerful enough to handle this low buffer setting.
If the sound cracks you would need to increase the buffer size to 48 or 64 Samples which will unfortunately increase the latency.
I am running a PC with an Intel Core i7-6800K CPU, 32GB of RAM and a Samsung NVMe SSD using Windows 7 Professional 64-bit OS.
I custom built this PC. Here are the complete specs and full installation instructions.
http://www.davidapps.net/arcgispc.htmlHaving set the Sampling Rate and Buffer Size in the AG06 Control Panel, next you need to launch your DAW.
I am using SONAR X2.
These are the settings you need to make.
Create a New Project
Edit | Preferences | Audio | Devices
Input Drivers = Yamaha Steinberg USB ASIO AG06
Output Drivers = Yamaha Steinberg USB ASIO AG06
This is very important!
Do not use any other drivers.
Edit | Preferences | Audio | Driver Settings
Playback Timing Master = Yamaha Steinberg USB ASIO AG06/AG03
Recording Timing Master = Yamaha Steinberg USB ASIO AG06/AG03
Sampling Rate = 44100 (Do not change this1)
You will see this readout:
ASIO Reported Latencies (including buffer and hardware latencies)
Input = 5.9 msec, 260 samples
Output = 5.9 msec, 260 samples
Total Roundtrip = 11.8 msec, 520 samples
Edit | Preferences | Audio | Playback and Recording
Driver Mode = ASIO
Dithering = Triangular
This completes your Audio Settings.
Finally, you need to load the VST plugin
Insert | Soft Synth | vstplugins | UVI Workstation VST x64
This will add a Soft Synth Track with the name = UVIWorkstation
Double Click on the small instrument icon next to the name of the track.
This will open the UVI Workstation Panel.
Double Click to open the browser.
Select Ravenscroft 275
Open Settings on the Ravenscroft 275 Window.
You need to make a few changes to the default settings:
Turn Pedal Noise Off
Turn Key Noise Off
Set Close Microphone Level to Max.
Set the Player, Room and Side Microphone volumes to zero.
Set Reverb Program = Small Concert Hall.
Dry Level = 100%
Wet Level = 50%
Set the main volume on your RD-2000 to zero and play a few notes. You will hear the Ravenscroft 275 VST voices with no perceptible lag.
Turn up the volume on your RD-2000. You will hear the internal voices on the RD-2000 layered with the Ravenscroft 275 VST voices. You should not hear any note doubling.
This is a perfectly acceptable solution.
Note: If you do not have an external audio interface, you can still use the internal sound card on your PC. Just do not use the Windows WDM Audio Drivers.
Instead, install this free ASIO4ALL driver from:
https://asio4all.org/This driver acts like a wrapper. It fools Window into thinking you have an ASIO driver.
It is the next best thing to having an external Audio Interface equipped with a Yamaha-Steinberg ASIO driver.
3. USING A PC FOR MUSICThere are some excellent YouTube videos showing how to build a PC for music production.
Computer Specs for Music Production in 2024
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6lCuH4OZmrIThe Best Computer for Music Production
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ayt8-s77cQsHow many CPU cores do you need to run Virtual Instrument?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PmCEyLg5bpUHow to build a Silent PC for Music Production
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5JBa4niv2EQNote: For using VST plugins, single core performance is more important than number of cores.
4. USING A MAC FOR MUSICThings are a lot simpler in the Apple World.
You do not have to worry about driver issues.
Apple has its own Core Audio Drivers that gives you very low latencies out of the box.
If you want to have a hassle free MAC setup powerful enough to run all your VSTs get the Apple 2023 Mac Mini M2 Pro with 16GB of RAM and 512GB SSD
https://www.amazon.com/Apple-Desktop-Computer-10%E2%80%91core-Ethernet/dp/B0BSHFS6XX/
$1,200
Next, add this Satechi Mac Mini Hub.
https://www.amazon.com/Satechi-Type-C-Stand-Enclosure-USB/dp/B0CR1WWSGN$90
Next, add this Crucial P3 Plus 2TB NVMe SSD that goes inside the Satechi Hub.
https://www.amazon.com/Crucial-Plus-PCIe-NAND-5000MB/dp/B0B25ML2FH$118
Total cost for a MAC setup = $1,408
This would be a reliable and powerful setup to handle all your music projects.
My Apple Mac Mini has never failed me.
Here are some excellent YouTube videos on using the Mac Mini for music:
M2 Pro Mac Mini – Perfect for Music Production
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZjTcRXDk7WUUsing the Satechi Mac Mini HUB
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8nAsXC5jk4M2 vs M2 Pro: What does the extra $700 get you?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0gy5wKdGdF45. HARDWARE OPTIONS FOR PLAYING PIANO VOICESIf you are solely interested in playing a piano, nothing beats the experience of playing on a real acoustic grand. If you have the space and the resources you have plenty of choices – Steinway Model D274, Yamaha CFX Concert Grand, Shigeru Kawai SK-EX Concert Grand, Fazioli F308, Bosendorfer 290 Imperial.
What if you are constrained by space?
The best choice is to go with a digital piano that closely mimics the sound and feel of a Grand Piano.
The Kawai MP11Se fits the bill.
This comes with the Kawai Grand Feel Action. It has extra-long keys on a pivot mechanism with 3 sensors and a Shigeru Kawai SK-EX piano sample.
https://www.thomannmusic.com/kawai_mp_11_se.htm$2000
Note: You would need a step down transformer to use this in the US.
The Key Action feels better than the Yamaha CVP-909 and Roland LX708.
You need this sturdy stand to support this 72lb beast.
K&M 18950
https://www.thomannmusic.com/km_18950.htm$148
To place your Arranger Keyboard above the Kawai MP11SE, you need this 2nd tier support.
K&M 18952 Stacker
https://www.thomannmusic.com/km_18952_aufsatz.htm$50
Here is a demo of the Kawai MP11SE voices
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=23AXGDs-8ichttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rzLQnylV-5cThe only downside of the Kawai MP11SE is that you may need to replace the factory slip tape ever so often when the keys begin to stick.
This problem has been fixed in the latest Kawai Grand Feel 3 Action.
You can buy the Kawai CA901 digital piano that features this newer action.
However, this is not portable.
https://alamopianogalleries.com/products/kawai-ca901-digital-piano-satin-black$6,399
The SK-EX Concert Grand Sample on the Kawai CA901 sounds even more refined than the one on the Kawai MP11SE because of better electronics.
The next step up is to go with a Hybrid Piano like the Kawai NOVUS NV5s
This has the Kawai Millennium III Hybrid upright piano action.
https://alamopianogalleries.com/products/kawai-43-3-nv5s-hybrid-digital-piano-polished-ebony-new$12,000
Sound Demo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4DaaafyAUqA6. CLOSING THOUGHTSNothing quite sounds and feels the same as playing on a real acoustic grand piano.
You can get pretty close by getting a digital Hybrid like the Kawai NOVUS NV5s ($12,000). In comparison, the Kawai MP11SE ($2,000) seems like a bargain. This is a smart choice.
If you plan on using Piano VSTs, getting a Mac Mini M2 Pro ($1,200) is an excellent, hassle free and reliable solution.
If for some reason you need to use a PC as your Music Computer, you need to bypass the Windows WDM Audio Drivers by using an external Audio Interface like the Yamaha AG06 USB Mixer that features the built in Yamaha-Steinberg ASIO drivers.
Set the Sampling Rate to 44.1kHz and the Buffer Size to 32 samples. This should result in a low enough latency that is workable.
Best,
David
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