http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uKlI3NDqrHA&feature=related

We need more of this kind of stuff....
great job James on explaining styles step by step. I would assume once you do this with all the styles you need they can be saved in banks and can be called up instantly on stage also using all the better program sounds of your choice including drums ?

Yes, all changes you make are stored within the style file.

Since recording that video, things have moved on quite a bit for me. Sound wise I now have 100% compatibility with Live Arranger and don't have to do much in the way of tweaking anything other than to appeal to my personal tastes. I'm not an arranger user though so I'm not too interested getting this part of the keyboard up and running to a standard I'd go gig with. I've also not explored this function as much as the likes of Dennis has, which I believe he ran into a few problems.

Live Arranger is not a Lionstracs program, it's third party software that I think the developer was having problems debugging.

That said, I think when OS 5.0 comes out the new Qranger (Lionstracs own arranger) will be one to watch. A single style can contain midi data, audio style data, and even the Giga files needed to run the style.

All that can then be packed down into a Zip file which the keyboard can read from.

Tastenpoint are also supposedly going to release a few hundred styles (we will see). So maybe soon the Mediastation / Groove Series might be that all singing and dancing arranger those who don't want to have to build up their own collections are looking for.

Who knows, I might even develop my own if it's worth the effort.

Regards
James

All good new...so I guess a wait and see attitude is the way to go for now regarding the Mediastation.

With all due respect, Donny, I think the MS is beyond you at this point in time.

I am not trying to demean your abilities at all, I am actually trying to help you avoid making a mistake.

This is based on the many comments you have made over the past couple of years about how you perform, your keyboard skills, and your PC knowledge.

There is a lot on the MS that is easy to use, but many other aspects require a certain innate ability to just "sense" how it works, and how to get the setups right.

There is no slash chord (on-bass) recognition, the hardware buttons related to the arranger engine only function for the fills endings and variations. The break button and other hardware buttons do not work with the style engine.

There is no NTA table to speak of. No pre-packaged styles in Q-Ranger native format (do not expect anything anytime soon for Tastenpoint -I think they have discovered just how convoluted creating styles, apart from very basic ones, is using Q-Ranger)

Live Arranger is a dog on the MS, unless you are happy with incorrect bass octaves, glitchy chord recognition changes and an awkward and "clunky" interface.

Same applies to Live Styler on the MS.

Pretty much all the styles (Yamaha based and the Ketron based ones) require extensive tweaking to even get to within 50% of the quality of the Korg, Yamaha, Roland, Ketron styles played on the respective arrangers.

Even a style converted using EMC still requires heavy editing in Q-Ranger.

THE MS IS A SUPERB OPEN SYNTH AND VST/GIGA SAMPLE AUDIO SAMPLE PLAYER, EDITOR AND MEDIA CENTRE, it is NOT anywhere near half-way to a decent arranger.

As I have said many times, it is not rocket science, but one still needs to know "how to light the wick".

My recommendation to you, is to look at the new Korg or stick with your Yamaha.

Dennis no offense taken we all cant be good at everything right?....with that said ....as you know Fran has a Mediastation and I have played it also. I'll be the first to admit, I'm an arranger / KB player & a Singer not a programmer or PC technician at all....just toying with my options. Not that the S910 doesn't do a great job in it's own rite, but I was just trying to figure out what some of the others in teh mix do & what would be important for MY needs as a musician. The Mediastation could very possibly be the wrong unit for me as I really dont need to have something with many features I'll never use. But I always try to educate myself further and stay in the know on things musically. What I can do good some may do like crap we all have our strengths & weaknesses but we learn from each other always. I could buy a T4 today but I wont because I'm not convinced yet and I'd like to see what KORG & Yamaha or maybe Roland release next in the way of a TOTL/MOTL unit next year hopefully...we'll see?.... meanwhile I'm making music everyday, making a living, making people happy, & I got a smile on my face knowing that the last 40+ years I'm able to wake up and go to work as a Musician & don't have to go to some boring 9-5 job somewhere
YUK I Love my job not many can say that, & I wouldn't have it any other way!

Happy Holidays !



[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 12-19-2010).]

Hi Dennis.
You know far more about the arranger functions than I do so forgetting the third party software since Lionstracs are dropping all that from the system, what do you think prevents Qranger from being the arranger function in the future?

If Tastenpoint is to be believed, they have already got a few hundred styles. They haven't released them yet because OS5.0 brings a new file format and they need to port the data.

So... assuming all the above will happen and they do release the data, is there anything you believe that prevents Qranger from being the arranger function?

Cheers
James

Firstly, no worries Donny. As I said just trying to maybe save some heartache.

UNLESS...and this leads to my reply to James...

James there are a few things.

Firstly Tastenpoint have been saying they have 100's of styles for about 8-9 months now. Each time I pressed them for info on release dates, I was always put off with one excuse or another.

The latest is the OS 5 one. Before that it was the development of the huge :white elephant" the organ. Before that, well I would have to check my emails to remember

So based on that I would not expect anything real soon!!! And even then small in number and complexity.

There is no user friendly manual for Q-Ranger. In fact no real manual at all, apart from very generic "broad-brush" stuff that carries no real instruction on actually creating, or even simply editing styles.

There does not seem to be any "real" connection between Lionstracs and the Q-Ranger developer Rui, who is continuing his development of Q-Tractor (from which Q-Ranger is derived) with no solid tie in to the Lionstracs software, apart from the "tacked-on" way in which it seems to work within Lionstracs.

Check out the Q-Tractor program to see how much more there is to IT!

Lionstracs has never really had any "serious" development strategy for the arranger side of the keyboard, and it is really starting to show.

Even when pressed for tech support for Q-Ranger, Rui defers to Lionstracs. I do know that Lionstracs provided financial support for the development of Q-Ranger, but that seems to be as far as it all went.

On the keyboard the hardware buttons associated with Q-Ranger MUST have the functions locked in to EVERY OS that is released. The hardware buttons on the MS, DID operate in the way described on the front panel, but that was way back on systems 2.8 and below.

I think that because arranger functions were not a high priority (seems the playback of videos and DJ functions were higher) the instructions to 64 Studio, who do all of Lionstracs software, were not given to maintain this integrity.

The N.T.T. tables do not seem to be accurately constructed. Note wrap points are either non-musical, or not programmed at all.

The Q-Ranger interface on the MS is very awkward to use, and almost impossible with the screen "real-estate" allowed for it on the MS. An external screen is a 100% necessity if one wants to edit anything.

The software still did not allow for correct saving of MIDI data info when I last had mine. This could be due to the MIDI limitations in Linux, or a lack of intent on behalf of the programmers...I do not know which.

There is no capability for any sort of foot control apart from a sustain pedal and a volume pedal.

The hardware sliders, whilst they can be assigned to midi controls, can only be accessed in real time by going through a couple of screen layers when you are using the keyboard live and the main screen is being used. Then if you go to the controls screen, the user then loses control over the style itself as the resources are temporarily linked into the sub screen menus.

Which basically means in the studio all is fine and dandy, but you better not need to change something in a hurry when at a gig!

Well that's probably enough for one post, and I cannot remember much more without prompting with some more in-depth questions.

But I think that should give you the general drift

Dennis

Donny,
Just to add my 2 cents worth...I'm with you at this point.
While I do have the PC knowledge ( I am a VB, C++, ASM and SQL programmer by profession) I do not want to do all that on my music WS.
I want a TOTL Arranger KB that is good to go.
I however would like some open system things so i I am inclined to do some setup/config/creation I can do it.
A Yamaha T4++ or a Korg PA3XPRO++ would be great!

But, I want to set down, turn it on, and play the arranger.

I want the content already here..and then be able to add to it if I want/need to.

Quite honestly if I wanted a WS I would go buy a Kurzweil PC3-88K, as I have $1500.00 worth of sound sets for the K2600 and they are compatable.

Lee S.

Dennis, Lee, thanx for the replies. I really think at this point in time a wait and see attitude is in order....even if its a while...something has to turn up soon or later don't you think?