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#498956 - 06/18/20 09:06 AM Playing Yamaha Montage/Modx as an arranger...
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703






I am considering this as an alternative to another arranger....
what are the pros and cons?
Best of both worlds?


Edited by Dnj (06/18/20 09:18 AM)

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#498958 - 06/18/20 09:31 AM Re: Playing Yamaha Montage/Modx as an arranger... [Re: Dnj]
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
and here is how you do it on Montage...


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#498960 - 06/18/20 10:03 AM Re: Playing Yamaha Montage/Modx as an arranger... [Re: Dnj]
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
Now that I see the actual process of how he does it on Montage using arpeggios triggering parts, and with no problem I can also do that
if I had one, but it is very time consuming and with an an extensive repertoire of songs this would take a long while to perfect and complete. That said once again I can eliminate this choice in my search and again makes me realize how powerful and convenient an arranger keyboard really is. At this point and having almost
all many times and performing on stage & home with them,
I have also eliminated all other brands of arrangers
for many reasons and experiences to Yamaha for sure.
Another Genos, SX900, SX700
will be my three considerations.....
I will think on it this week and make a decision
based on my needs at this time.



Edited by Dnj (06/18/20 10:10 AM)

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#498963 - 06/18/20 10:58 AM Re: Playing Yamaha Montage/Modx as an arranger... [Re: Dnj]
W Tracy Parnell Offline
Member

Registered: 08/22/06
Posts: 760
Loc: NY
Originally Posted By Dnj
Now that I see the actual process of how he does it on Montage using arpeggios triggering parts, and with no problem I can also do that
if I had one, but it is very time consuming and with an an extensive repertoire of songs this would take a long while to perfect and complete.

Yes, I agree. I guess the only advantage to the Montage is you could "personalize" each song where as on the arranger songs played from the same style will sound similar. But as you say, a lot of work.

Originally Posted By Dnj

I have also eliminated all other brands of arrangers
for many reasons and experiences to Yamaha for sure.
Another Genos, SX900, SX700
will be my three considerations.....
I will think on it this week and make a decision
based on my needs at this time.


Sounds like you have carefully thought it through so that is good.
_________________________
Komplete Kontrol S61/Korg PA900/JBL 308P/Focusrite Clarett 2Pre/Band in a Box/Reaper/EZdrummer 3

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#498966 - 06/18/20 12:00 PM Re: Playing Yamaha Montage/Modx as an arranger... [Re: Dnj]
Bachus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/02/06
Posts: 7143
There is a tool somewhere on the internet that converts a yamaha style into like 120 arps...altough you can also just choose a single intro an emding and lik 24 variations.. which gives up to 32 arps..

Problem is, in a user set there is only room for 256 free arps..
Thats about 8 to 12 styles at best..

Trough there is 8 user sets, but changing them feels kind of like rebooting the intrument..
_________________________
Yamaha Genos, Roland Jupiter 80, Ipad pro.

http://keyszone.boards.net

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#498989 - 06/18/20 08:21 PM Re: Playing Yamaha Montage/Modx as an arranger... [Re: Dnj]
TedS Offline
Member

Registered: 04/28/06
Posts: 810
Loc: North Texas, USA
The instrument sounds great in his hands. But the way he plays it--held chords in the left hand, fills, endings, etc., is EXACTLY like an arranger. The videos prove the Montage CAN be used as an arranger. It also begs the question, if you are going to play it this way, why would you choose it over a Genos?

Every chord he triggered by pressing at least three keys, and in most cases he moved around to reach a specific inversion. Personally I would like to know whether the arps in the Montage can follow simplified partial chords (such as just the root and seventh below), but that's not demonstrated here. The style patterns are all held, so it allows him to "stab & move" just like most arranger players do. With all of the movement and button-pushing in these demos, I wouldn't call this an "easy play" instrument. Seniors trading up from their Lowrey should look elsewhere.

The sound samples are great, but it's hard to say whether they're really better than what's in the Genos. Lead sounds are very important. Style sounds not as much because they tend to get lost in the mix. As far as the "arps" he's using: they don't sound like arps I've heard before, they sound like style tracks! I would say the main reason to buy a synth is because you WANT to create your own waveforms, and generate arps to create electronic or dance music. If your goal is a decent cover of Moon River, you might eventually get there but this is doing it the hard way. And if you sometimes want to play arps, I think the Genos has a few (admittedly it's a token functionality compared to what the Montage and MODX can do.)

It's always been possible to "assemble" your own custom style on Yamaha arrangers by copying tracks from various factory styles. In some cases you might need 3rd party utilities on your PC, or it might be easier to do it that way. No matter what it will take some time. Because just like on the Montage you would have to audition the parts individually, and then see how they harmonize with the other tracks you selected for your user style. Like anything else in life, you'll get out of it what you put into it.

Which brings us to the question of content. Everything he played in these videos had a "modern" feel to it. But what if you downloaded the styles from the MM6 (which was really an arranger) and installed them in your PSR? Or "patterns" from the DJX-II? Check out this page:

http://sandsoftwaresound.net/mox-perf-to-psr-style-part-1/

The author Mr. Drongowski also posts on PSRTutorial. He figured out how to take the arps from the MOX (the MODX's grandfather) and convert them to arranger styles. If you don't have time to do it yourself, you can just download the zip file at the end of the article.

The Montage, or even the Motif wasn't Yamaha's first music production synth to have arranger-like functionality. The QY-700 allowed you to assemble a "pattern" (style!) from a bank of stock phrases. Sound familiar? It also had real time chord recognition, and this was back in 1996! But how many just went out and bought a PSR-730 instead? Bottom line: What songs do you want to play? What's the end product you're trying to achieve? Once you know that, there's undoubtedly more than one way to reach that goal. Choosing the right tool (and populating it with appropriate content) will help you get there faster. More joy and less frustration. My $.02.




Edited by TedS (06/18/20 08:26 PM)

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#498990 - 06/18/20 09:41 PM Re: Playing Yamaha Montage/Modx as an arranger... [Re: TedS]
Bachus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/02/06
Posts: 7143
Originally Posted By TedS
The instrument sounds great in his hands. But the way he plays it--held chords in the left hand, fills, endings, etc., is EXACTLY like an arranger. The videos prove the Montage CAN be used as an arranger. It also begs the question, if you are going to play it this way, why would you choose it over a Genos?

Every chord he triggered by pressing at least three keys, and in most cases he moved around to reach a specific inversion. Personally I would like to know whether the arps in the Montage can follow simplified partial chords (such as just the root and seventh below), but that's not demonstrated here. The style patterns are all held, so it allows him to "stab & move" just like most arranger players do. With all of the movement and button-pushing in these demos, I wouldn't call this an "easy play" instrument. Seniors trading up from their Lowrey should look elsewhere.

The sound samples are great, but it's hard to say whether they're really better than what's in the Genos. Lead sounds are very important. Style sounds not as much because they tend to get lost in the mix. As far as the "arps" he's using: they don't sound like arps I've heard before, they sound like style tracks! I would say the main reason to buy a synth is because you WANT to create your own waveforms, and generate arps to create electronic or dance music. If your goal is a decent cover of Moon River, you might eventually get there but this is doing it the hard way. And if you sometimes want to play arps, I think the Genos has a few (admittedly it's a token functionality compared to what the Montage and MODX can do.)

It's always been possible to "assemble" your own custom style on Yamaha arrangers by copying tracks from various factory styles. In some cases you might need 3rd party utilities on your PC, or it might be easier to do it that way. No matter what it will take some time. Because just like on the Montage you would have to audition the parts individually, and then see how they harmonize with the other tracks you selected for your user style. Like anything else in life, you'll get out of it what you put into it.

Which brings us to the question of content. Everything he played in these videos had a "modern" feel to it. But what if you downloaded the styles from the MM6 (which was really an arranger) and installed them in your PSR? Or "patterns" from the DJX-II? Check out this page:

http://sandsoftwaresound.net/mox-perf-to-psr-style-part-1/

The author Mr. Drongowski also posts on PSRTutorial. He figured out how to take the arps from the MOX (the MODX's grandfather) and convert them to arranger styles. If you don't have time to do it yourself, you can just download the zip file at the end of the article.

The Montage, or even the Motif wasn't Yamaha's first music production synth to have arranger-like functionality. The QY-700 allowed you to assemble a "pattern" (style!) from a bank of stock phrases. Sound familiar? It also had real time chord recognition, and this was back in 1996! But how many just went out and bought a PSR-730 instead? Bottom line: What songs do you want to play? What's the end product you're trying to achieve? Once you know that, there's undoubtedly more than one way to reach that goal. Choosing the right tool (and populating it with appropriate content) will help you get there faster. More joy and less frustration. My $.02.




Actually the arps in the montage are much more versatile then the tracks in a style file, so you can do pretty much everything... but that comes at a price of a restriction of the number of notes in an arp...

The sounds in the montage are different..
there is more then double the sound rom then in the Genos..
The piano’s are huge ..
There is a lot of synth material..
And much more powerfull strings.
Also where it comes to sounds, every sound has 2 dsp’s effects as part of the sound.
Where it comes to acoustic sounds they are about the same in number and the same in quallity

There are no SA2 voices, ensembles or organ world in the Montage..

Nice to know: for the arps montage uses the same mega voices as the tyros/genos


Where montage shines its its potential to create new voices..
You can even create your own SA voices
Its potential to create arps, of any nature..
For example you can also create arps that only send CC’s..


Anyway.. its a very creative tool..
Still think, if you want to play styles, add an arranger to your setup.
The arps of montage are perfect to add to your left hand and add some diversity and natural feel to your styles...
_________________________
Yamaha Genos, Roland Jupiter 80, Ipad pro.

http://keyszone.boards.net

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#498996 - 06/19/20 02:00 AM Re: Playing Yamaha Montage/Modx as an arranger... [Re: Dnj]
abacus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/21/05
Posts: 5352
Loc: English Riviera, UK
Always use the right tool for the job rather than trying to adapt another tool designed for a different job.

Bill
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English Riviera:
Live entertainment, Real Ale, Great Scenery, Great Beaches, why would anyone want to live anywhere else (I�m definitely staying put).

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#498997 - 06/19/20 04:31 AM Re: Playing Yamaha Montage/Modx as an arranger... [Re: Dnj]
dud Offline
Member

Registered: 05/05/01
Posts: 232
Loc: israel
wow thanks dnj
It has always been my dream to enjoy the sound of a professional workstation and to combine rhythms like in the arranger and so enjoy both worlds
_________________________
davidfle@walla.co.il

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#499004 - 06/19/20 06:24 AM Re: Playing Yamaha Montage/Modx as an arranger... [Re: dud]
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
Originally Posted By dud
wow thanks dnj
It has always been my dream to enjoy the sound of a professional workstation and to combine rhythms like in the arranger and so enjoy both worlds


dud your very welcome...
yes the montage can do all sorts of things the way the player wants if they know how.....there is is so much more that you can do besides what your seeing in this video. Arps use is not even touching how deep this instrument is.

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