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#392106 - 08/22/14 01:35 PM Re-thinking midi controllers
Fran Carango Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/26/99
Posts: 9673
Loc: Levittown, Pa, USA
I have used many keyboard controllers the last 30 years..from the Roland a-30 to the Roland A800pro, and dozens between them..

In recent years I thought it necessary to have all the sliders, pads and buttons programmed to my daws and vst's..the A800 pro was one of the best for this..
What i found is I didn't really use all the controls..after the novelty of drawbars for organ with the fast/slow switch button....I didn't use much other than cc7 control, or volume control...maybe mute of a zone...All the things that most any controller can do..

I sold my A800pro, and bought another Roland PC-80..I had a new one several years ago, before I thought I needed more controls..
The following is a review from the net..that mirrors my thoughts:
Edirol PC-80 MIDI Controller & Audio Interface with Mic Preamp

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I have long desired to consolidate the many elements of a home studio into as few pieces as possible, and after finding the Edirol PC-80 I felt like I had finally found most of what I was looking for.

Most MIDI controllers offer anywhere from 25 to 88 keys and one or more of the following: sliders, knobs and drum pads. It is nice to include things like that, but what about the guy that just wants to comfortably sit on his bed and relax while letting the music making process happen naturally? Laptop speakers are inadequate and many people dislike using headphones either for the cord getting in the way or just having something physical on your head for hours. The Edirol PC-80 is the first MIDI controller that I have seen that includes stereo speakers, and ones loud enough to really get in to what you are recording!

And thinking about this, what is a MIDI controller doing with audio components? Aren't we verging on this being an audio interface as well? Yes, in this case we are! The Edirol PC-80 is a full-duplex, 24-bit, 96k audio interface that includes:

Audio Inputs:
Two L/R 1/4" jacks for line, instrument or mic input
RCA outputs for L/R and sub
TWO headphone outputs
Stereo speakers built-in

That's not a bad audio interface feature-wise!

The PC-80 can be powered via USB or by the included (wall-wart) power supply. The power supply supplies 2,000 mA whereas the USB power supplies a meager 500 mA. This makes no difference when it comes to MIDI functionality, but if you are using a weak mic and need as much gain from the preamp as possible, I am sure you will appreciate having the option to use 2 full amps of power. This would make a difference with the speakers as well; the more power, the louder you can turn it up.

Action is meant to be "synth action", which is between no key tension and fully-weighted piano keys, but I find the PC-80 to be on the stiffer side of a typical synth-action controller. This may or may not be to your liking but I thought it should be noted.

Two knobs and buttons on the front panel handle program and MIDI CC changes with 2 LED's for feedback. There are upper and lower buttons for key splits and a very useful Direct Monitor button for hearing what you are recording before it goes into your computer and back out again. That way you won't hear yourself later than the rest of your recording (latency.) A dedicated Master Volume knob controlling the audio output rounds things out.

In summary, if you are looking for a single MIDI controller to fill many other roles of your studio such as speakers, headphone amps, mic preamps and more, this could be just the thing you've been waiting to discover!

Here are some of my thoughts..the keyfeel is a bit better than the A800pro, close to the BK5 feel...very playable..
The assortment of features is the best I have found..the audio interface is similar to my stand a lone Edirols I have used for years.. the flexible routing is great, allowing 2:1 sound, and the monitoring is no latency..the imput allows line, guitar or mic with gain control knob..All this is via USB bus power..

The bonus is the PC-80 synth, player, and editor that comes with the keyboard..It has a dedicated button that auto matically opens the synth..
It is a GM2 256 tones, 9 drum kits, and a lot of user area for your edits..it is 256 polyphonic..and sounds great..better than most GM2/gs/xg sources...It also has a 16 track player, besides the 2 keyboard parts (zones).
I love this controller, the speakers although small are great for home monitoring..it is a perfect home studio piece and can handle any gig too..It also makes recording hassle free with my MixCraft6 or Band in a box program..





http://www.rolandus.com/products/details/735



Edited by Fran Carango (08/22/14 01:40 PM)
_________________________
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#392115 - 08/23/14 08:16 AM Re: Re-thinking midi controllers [Re: Fran Carango]
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
How does it work onstage performing and navigation? Verses an arranger kb?

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#392126 - 08/23/14 10:55 AM Re: Re-thinking midi controllers [Re: Dnj]
Fran Carango Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/26/99
Posts: 9673
Loc: Levittown, Pa, USA
Originally Posted By: Dnj
How does it work onstage performing and navigation? Verses an arranger kb?



Naturally, if you are an arranger player only...it would be no contest...
You would not paint your house with a toothbrush..or brush your teeth with a paint brush...different purposes.

The PC80 would shine on stage if you wanted to play over sequences or MP3 tracks using superior sounds to what you are using on your arranger..like NI B4..

With a single connection of a USB cable to your laptop..the PC80 has the power, the audio interface with monitoring without latency..and the outputs to stereo speakers and a sub connection..

How many connections would it take for an arranger keyboard to do the same job?

The best purpose is in the studio..easy and fast access to MixCraft, and PC80 softsynth...Win ..Win..
_________________________
www.francarango.com



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#392127 - 08/23/14 10:59 AM Re: Re-thinking midi controllers [Re: Fran Carango]
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
Thanx for the answer Fran.......so I guess still to this day nothing can beat an Arranger KB & a laptop on stage....
IMO for MY needs.

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#392128 - 08/23/14 01:43 PM Re: Re-thinking midi controllers [Re: Dnj]
Bachus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/02/06
Posts: 7143
Actually for studio reasons i woul love to have all 3 types of keyboards

-Piano weighted action
- typical synt keyboard with aftertouch
-duall organ manuall with waterfall keybed

In a full software setup this could be having a Kawaii VPC1, my good old trusted Roland A800 and a viscount 61 key waterfall keybed...


On stage with only a single choice, i would go for somthing with a Fatar TP40 keybed, its an allrounder weighted 88 keybed, used in for example the Nord Stage 2 and the Kurzweil PC3K8

In all cases i would use a novation sl2 zero keyless controller in combination with maschine 2


Edited by Bachus (08/23/14 01:48 PM)
_________________________
Yamaha Genos, Roland Jupiter 80, Ipad pro.

http://keyszone.boards.net

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#392150 - 08/24/14 01:24 PM Re: Re-thinking midi controllers [Re: Bachus]
Bachus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/02/06
Posts: 7143
I saw this controller at the German Musik store today

http://orladirect.co.uk/jamkey/

The midi controller market is getting pro asap... Just look at this, or for example the Physis K4. Everything poits towrds the software side of things..

The Orla above would suit Varranger verry well...
_________________________
Yamaha Genos, Roland Jupiter 80, Ipad pro.

http://keyszone.boards.net

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#392151 - 08/24/14 04:18 PM Re: Re-thinking midi controllers [Re: Fran Carango]
DAN.2000 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/09/01
Posts: 1134
Loc: FRANCE
I have a Novation 61 SL MK2

The new version of vArranger is working very good with this keyboard.

I can play and control 16 vst instrument. The mapping is very easy.
You can control every VST parameter.

And something very nice, You can get a full led feedback between the VST and the controller.

SO if you move a slider on the VST, you can see the led ring of the keyboard moving. The same with led buttons....

I will do a video soon to show you.


This new Jamkey seems very good too.
Not sure if we can do Led feedback like with the Novation and Korg nanokontrol2
_________________________
Regards,

Dan
https://www.varranger.com

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#392160 - 08/24/14 10:48 PM Re: Re-thinking midi controllers [Re: DAN.2000]
Nigel Offline
Admin

Registered: 06/01/98
Posts: 6483
Loc: Ventura CA USA
Originally Posted By: DAN.2000
I have a Novation 61 SL MK2

The new version of vArranger is working very good with this keyboard.

I can play and control 16 vst instrument. The mapping is very easy.
You can control every VST parameter.

And something very nice, You can get a full led feedback between the VST and the controller.

SO if you move a slider on the VST, you can see the led ring of the keyboard moving. The same with led buttons....

I will do a video soon to show you.



Sounds great Dan. I look forward to seeing the video.

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