Regards working with the “big three” arranger keyboards (and then there‘s the Audya!). This is a quote from another recent thread.

Diki: I admit, it (Roland BK-9) don't come out the box as polished as a Yamaha (closer to a Korg in that regard), but the tools to sculpt it into what YOU like are all there. But instant gratification? Not unless you just LISTEN to it!

DJN: …many players just want to pretty much just play out of the box and Not be a "Sculpture" or know how to (“sculpt”)

Speaking for myself (Mark), it’s all about finding time. I just can’t seem to find any (“time”) these days like I used to. I still manage to get 1-2 hours practice daily but I find the next hurdle is “concentration.“ Can’t find that either. Like seems to be getting busier and busier as it gets more complex….mostly from technology.

Let’s see….bought a Tascam DR-2D recorder 6 months ago…it’s still sitting in the box. Bought a PA3x….still sitting on the music stand waiting for me to give it some attention. New cellphone……haven’t read the manual yet. My new Denon mp3 players…..trying to find time to load them and practice until the usage and mixing becomes fluent. Looking to buy a new TV…research, learn about the new HD technology, go through the brands and the options and specs, go to Best Buy and pass out from dizziness when you see all the models to pick from!

Anyhow, back to the point. I’m wondering how many of you just don’t have the time these days to be editing and tweaking your keyboard. And, even if you DID have the time, would you still just prefer to “play it out of the box?”

And……I’ll ask also……how many of you feel you’re music output is being affected by the above factors that I mentioned.

I’m glad I learned to play in the “simple” pre-technology days. I don’t think I would have the time (or the focus) to learn if I had to start today. It’s no wonder many want to just “play out of the box.”

I wouldn’t be surprised if we had a reincarnation of the old 3-chord guitarists even. I don’t know how anyone finds the time to do anything these days when we have so many issues and responsibilities to keep up with that we didn’t have before?

Mark

It's an interesting post . I find that whatever is your priority in life , you will find the time for . I love my wife , daughter family friends music and God and these are my top priorities so I devote my time to these things .

When it comes to music I narrow down what elements are important for me to develop as an arranger /composer /musician and so focus my time musically on improving my playing and creative skills using the instrument I perform with . I tweak my instrument as necessary for the music I want to perform . But I don't tweak just for the sake of it and will happily work with what already comes out the box if necessary . I am not shackled by the desire to produce a perfect performance or find the perfect instrument as some here are .

If my music can uplift someone whilst uplifting me , then that's good enough .

It's very easy to become distracted by all the " toys " out there both in Terms of music technology and other forms of entertainment . For me as a father , husband ,music coach and choir leader , I have to maintain a clear focus on what I do with my time and the starting point for me is to have a clear set of values and priorities written down and to live a life that reflects this consciously and intentionally . Life is not a dress rehearsal someone famous once said and Life is too short to waste time on things that don't even matter !

Whenever I get distracted or find myself losing focus I go back to the starting point again and find my way back on track .

Good subject. Keyboards have become more complicated and complex, making older players like me (84) having to read the
manual and finding out what really makes the Tyros 5 sound good.
So much "tweaking" and fuss that I read about on this forum
can certainly discourage people from buying one.
The OTS works really great and you can substitute the voices
with little effort. Making your own styles does not interest me in the least and what is available is excellent. Lloyd

...my first arranger - technics kn1000 (bought in 1992 ?) - was the easiest OOTB kb I've ever had or even tried ... second was my technics kn6000 (bought in 2000) ... sounds, styles, whatever - unbox and head out to a gig ...
The KORG OS was a big learning curve but after a while I was able to relate it to the technics OS in certain aspects ...
I am not nearly as well educated as many on this forum regarding 'tweaking' the sounds of various instruments, so a lot of what I use is OOTB and sound pretty darn good to my ears ... and IMHO, the vast majority of our audiences are not going to be NEARLY as critical of the sounds as our brothers and sisters here on S-Z ...

Mark ... you are quite right about the 'demands' on people's time these days ... too many TOYS, which not only stresses people out time wise, but at least as importantly, financially ...
Look around at any 'family' restaurant and see how many families are conversing as opposed to having their heads in their iWHATEVERS ... but that's a whole OTHER story ...
It is up to the individual to set his/her own priorities as to where time is going to be spent ...
I find that while I no doubt spend more time on a daily basis on my KB as opposed to any other one thing, 'priority wise' it falls behind God, family, and country ...

My tweaking is mostly done setting things up in the most convenient way for me to play live. Saving setups, making sounds and styles easy to access and call up, finding best styles for songs. . .
Almost all my changes in gear are made in the winter when it's too cold or wet to play golf or fish. Right now I'm in a major experimentation mode.
As for choice in keyboards, there are no bad ones. Tweaking is more necessary on Korg I think, but it's also probably the easiest to do it on, and it's one of the deepest as far as allowing the user to change every detail. Roland isn't far behind, if at all.
Audya sounds the best to me as far as styles and arranger parts.
Yamaha has great lead instrument sounds and a magnificent plethora of styles available.
Closest to perfect all around arranger for me remains the Korg PA3X, after you get it tweaked to suit you. I had some good reasons for letting mine go, but sorry I had to do it in many respects.
I'm trying to make the PA900 be a mini-PA3x. Jury is still out. BK9 remains in a solid place of contention. I have only a few days to make a decision! Whichever way I go, it can't be wrong!
I'm leaning toward the PA900 for the fact that it is pretty much an all-in-one package. Easy to transport, set up and play without peripheral gear of any kind except PA system. Not even that if the gig is small enough!
A perfect setup might be BK9 for bottom keyboard, PA for top, but that would be too much stuff to deal with as far as setup and transport.

I used to demo quite a few Yamaha arrangers in stores, right out of the box, with no adjustments or loading in my own settings, just to show the potential buyer how quick they can go from un-boxing to playing.

Then I would load in my own settings and showed some ways to maximize the instruments performance.

Sometimes when I did a home clinic, even if the person was a repeat arranger buyer, some of them didn't know or care about registrations, and were playing the instrument entirely from the One Touch Settings. They were happy with what they were getting, but even more happy when I went through a few pointers on using registrations.

I have done considerable tweaking on my Tyros4, but nothing extremely drastic, as it really didn't need too much in the Sounds section. They were set up very nicely from the factory.

I did, however, edit the styles quite a bit; not that they weren't usable, but, I like having them flow the way I like, not how some programmer thinks they should, although the quality of the factory styles is already very high.

I suspect, and my experience in the field confirms this to some degree, the majority of arranger users, especially the non-pro or non-advanced players, want their arrangers to sound great right out of the box. They just want to play, and the easier it is to sound great, the happier they are with the instrument.

Although the pros and advanced players do a lot more tweaking, I doubt if anyone wants to spend an inordinate amount of time getting the instrument to perform the way they want it to.

As far as time priority, I have no family, so the order would be maintaining my health, improving my solo playing skills by lots of practice, jamming with the guys once or twice a month, and keeping company with positive people. I spend time on my video game as it really does keep my reflexes quick, as well as being a lot of fun.

I'm not much for getting TOYS and/or amassing techie stuff...I don't have, or want, a cell phone or I-Pad or I-Pod, as I want to control my time, rather than have it controlled by others...the regular phone and my email are all the communication devices I need, at least for the time being.

Good topic, Mark.

Ian

Hey Mark - meet Ian

Spalding - I liked your writing. I'm a bit like you, especially the 1st paragraph I wrestle with time and have a million things on plate too. I bought the Korg 'cause I'm very familiar with the system and it is almost OOB with little adjustment. The changes are so easy to do.

Starting going to a church once attended (did a lot of special music and a kids musical, when my kids were 5 and 6). Now I'm contributing musically again - it'll never end. When I say no, it's because I have no interest or serves no purpose to anyone.

I guess I simply EXPECT to tweak anything I buy. It's pretty plain to see that I am not a fan of the Yamaha 'sound', the drums still don't cut it, for me at least. I play in live bands, I simply want my arranger to sound like one!

So, for me at least, it doesn't matter what brand I buy, I would have the same amount of work no matter which! So my main focus is on, what does it sound like AFTER I have tweaked it..?

In the meantime, if anyone is trying out a BK-9 (or other Roland BK's), and you want a quick glimpse of what it will sound like after you tweak a bit, turn the Mastering Tools down a bit (or off, if you have great monitor speakers). Do it for both the Style section and the Keyboard Parts. This will return a more natural dynamic sound. Then turn up the faders for the ADRUMS and ABASS Parts to 127. Now back down the Style/Keyboard Balance knob to about 10 o'clock, so that the RH sounds are quite a bit quieter.

This should cure at least some of the issues with the style Parts and RH sounds being too loud, and kicking the master compressor in too much. And you should at least be able to run through the factory presets and them be closer to a decent balance.

On the whole, I'm not really all that impressed with ANY arranger's OOTB sound. So tweaking it is part of my buying decision. But that's where hanging on to an arranger for 8-10 years pays off! You only have to do the tweaking once a decade or so... Keep playing musical chairs with gear, and yes, your need for something you can live with OOTB goes up exponentially. But it doesn't seem like such a PITA if you only do it ONCE and then sit back for many years.

I'd rather be able to spend my music time learning, polishing tunes and improving my technique, timing, ear... But the reality is even my Tyros 2 needs some adjustments to make me satisfied. Nothing major.... Just small stuff like raising the volume of the drums, muting parts, adding a multi pad and of course registrations, and sets for gigs. Yes, it does take time but until the darn thing can read my mind, I'm going to have to do some tweaking.