This is in response to all the bashing 'arranger style' keyboard players get from traditional acoustic players:

Here's something I've noticed about many piano students who play solo only. Though they may sound good when playing alone, when they attempt to play with other musicians, many are terrible at keeping good time and rhythm (groove). In addition solo piano style playing is different than what's needed when playing with a band (rhythm section). Most acoustic instruments rely on other instrument accompaniment to achieve a complete sounding performance so these students are typically encouraged to play with other musicians (rhythm section) and which effectively promote better time keeping.

The piano (on the other hand) is the only acoustic instrument that covers the entire pitch range of all traditional orchestral instruments. In fact, most all of the great classical composers composed their orchestral works on the piano. Because piano students aren't always encouraged to play with a band, they often suffer in the timing & rhythm dept.

The piano's weakness, for the aspiring student, is that without strict practice & disipline, timing suffers. The mechanical metronome, though a good device in its day, is severely limited in that it only produces the principal quarter/eighth note beats in common time. 20th & 21st Century music relies heavily on rhythm, and which include a variety of grooves which require one to feel (internalize) the off beats, rhythmic anticipations, and sub rhythms as well. This is where the arranger keyboard shines.

In my experience with piano students vs arranger keyboard students, though intermediate-advanced piano students may excel with their traditional piano technical chops, arranger players typically possess much better timing , and a much greater sense of the 'rhythmic feel' to their playing, even when these arranger experienced players play without any auto-accompaniment.

I recommend exploring the many different styles available on your arranger and getting real comfortable playing & adapting your playing style to the feel of these different grooves. In fact, one thing I enjoy most in my own arranger playing, is taking a popular song that's widely recognized played in a specific style, and then selecting a totally different style genre altogether for that song, to give the song a whole new fresh sounding perspective.

Scott

I think ANYone can benifit from working with a drum machine or other "absloute value" rhythm, just as students used to use metronomes to establish a stronger sense of rhythm. Further, I believe that ALL drummers should own machines .... just to teach them how to FOLLOW...something many are not good at.

These arranger keyboards take it one step further, but the basic, fundamental beat is still the master and conductor. We should all learn how to follow in absolute time.

There is still plenty of room to "push the beat" and to "lay back" with a machine....it's all about the interaction of the player and the machine. Sounds easy....but it takes some getting used to.

Good topic Scott.

A good excercise is to pick any song.....
then go thru "ALL" your styles one by one on your KB and play the Same Song with each style, keeping the factory default rythym for each style. You'll be surprised at what you come out with, but most of all you'll improve your timing!

I completely agree with the above comments. I live next door to a piano teacher and an excellent player she is...but...When I inviter her to play my 9000Pro she just could not keep time with the accompaniment. Switching this off and giving her the Piano patch set on full keyboard mode she was fine. Piano players tend to make there own timing which varies through a tune.

Mind you there are a lot of arranger players who play out of timing and don't even know or recognize they are doing it.

Graham UK

I don't think it's only about the rhythm. Sometimes the "school" musicians don't have the 'feel' that "street smart" musicians (not all of them though).

Scott...I can play both solo and with arranger btw...except one thing I hate about acoustic piano, there is no damn transpose button!!! (he.he.he..) When I was little, my dad and I sometimes played a duet on two different 'electone' (or electronic organs), he would just switch scales a few times just to mess me up!

I agree. In my own case, playing along to arrangements has certainly tightened up my timing. I had been years removed from a band to play with when I got my PSR530, and when I did my first recordings with it while I had noticed my timing wasn't up to snuff.

I had always played my keyboards and kept my chops in between that time span, but it isn't the same as playing with someone or something else. All I have to do is look at the midifiles I made from a few years ago vs the ones I make now to easily see the difference. I worked very hard to be able to get tight to the beat, which is a skill needed for making styles from scratch. I just rcently had this conversation with a friend who is a guitar player. Ironically, the topic became not playing so tight that it becomes mechanical. I'd have never had that conccern a few years ago.

AJ

Timing has always been one of my pet peeves. Most of my younger years were spent playing lead and rythym guitar with various bands. More often than not, someone was so far off time that you wondered if they were playing the same tune as everyone else. When I got a drum machine, which was about 20 years ago, I had no trouble using it and playing my 12-string Yamaha, which I still pull out of the case from time to time. When some of the guys I played with years ago tried playing with drum machine, they were totally lost.

Part of the problem with solo musicians, especially piano and guitar players, is they never had to keep perfect time. Consequently, when playing with some else, they only hear the instrument they are playing--not the synth's drums and bass. I gave my drum machine to a friend who is a great guitar player, and after a year he handed it back to me and said "I just can't seem to get the hang of this thing--it's never playing the same tempo that I'm playing." AMAZING!

Good Post,

Gary

An added suggestion is limiting the auto-accompaniment to only drums, and on other occasions, only the bass line. Contrary to what some people may think, it's the bass player, not the drummer, who provides the foundation of a song. Whenever I play with a live band, I always focus on what the bass player is playing, in order to determine the most appropriate sounding (left hand) keyboard full chords & voicings which will best work with the bass player's lines, as the key to a good band is a tight rhythm section. Applying this technique in arranger keyboard playing can be equally beneficial. In addition to playing the arranger with auto accomp drums only, in split mode, with left hand playing bass lines, and right playing piano melody or chords, I also occasionally cut out all auto accompanimnet parts except for the bass, playing left (full chords) & right hand piano. This creates an intimate 'after hours' type acoustic sound which can provide a 'nice contrast' to those busier arranger styles.

Scott

Yep I agree with what has been said here.
I played electric organ for years & thought my timing was good
all the time. But when I got my first arranger I had a H*** of a
time trying to keep up, it sounded terrible.
At first I thought there had to be some thing wrong with the
arranger, I couldn't believe I was that bad with timing.
But after practice, practice, practice, it all fell into place.
Great topic Scott.
Denny

Another advice I can give is:
record your songs and then listen to yourself like you would to another musician, with a cold attitude.
The first time I did, I had to resist the temptation to sell my keyboard and take another hobby.