I am finding it very hard to select the different tones on the G70. When you select a bank for example the Sax/Trumpet bank you get a list of the saxafones and tumpets available. The problem is, if eg you have selected an the Alto blow Sax then you select a piano sound and now you want a trumpet u again press the Sax/Trumpet bank and you get the previosly selected Sax sound (which you do not want) then on the display screen you select another sound page because the trumpet is on a different page and then you press the Trumpet resulting a very long procedure which takes a considerable time. Any suggestions on how to eliminate this problem?

Godfrey,

This was the problem on VA- series as well, IMHO, as well as with many other keyboards, like Tyros, etc. However, on the VA this was made worse by the response of the touch screen. The ergonomics is not helped by the fact that you need to reach to the right of the keyboard to press the bank select button, than move hand and refocus to the screen to start paging/selecting individual tones. (My old Roland E70 is great - there are bank select buttons, and 8 tone select buttons immediately below, making it quite easy, but its number of tones is much smaller).

I guess, Roland (G70) and others do not really expect you to use tone selection process during the performance, but to use presets instead, which are callable with one (one-touch) or two (performance memories/registrations in Yamaha speak) button presses. Unfortunately, the same tedious process must be followed with styles, and for a live performer quick style selection is crucial.

There is not much you can do, but as I see it, there are two possible approaches, which at this time may be achieved with a software update (they are not likely to add more physical buttons):
One - provide high display density screen mode, where instead of shwing eight large "virtual buttons", They give user an option to disply, say, 16 smaller buttons - this should help reduce paging.
Two - provide a selection of "Favorite" tones from each bank, which appear on the first page, the first time you press the bank select button. Pressing the bank select button again (or page forward) would
show the regular list of tones. This way, you could always quickly get to the tones in the group (perhaps not the best ones but still very suitable for the piece you want to play).
I think that the combination of the two options is what you should push for.
In either case, you should contact both your dealer Roland and customer service, and start complaining, yelling, screaming, and otherwise raising hell, until they understand that this is a serious shortcoming which can be quickly fixed nonetheless.
To me this is a serious problem with regard to user-friendliness, which kept me away from VA76. I hope Roland takes this seriously, and provides a fix for it in the OS- update.
I hope that all the potential G70 customers join me in voicing their concern.
This is one situation where touch screen provides an advantage over having buttons around the screen for selecting things - you can increase the number of "virtual buttons" with a software upgrade. I hope Roland capitalizes on this advantage, and along the way sheds its image as the company not responsive to customer needs.

Regards,
Alex

___________________________________________________________
I fail to see how this is a problem with the Tyros

The Bank selects on the Tyros are not intermingled with different category Voices. When you select the Trumpet panel button you get Trumpets and Trombones i.e. Brass instruments not Saxophones, i.e. Reed/Woodwind instruments, etc. together WITH Brass instruments like the G70 does.

The only Voice category buttons on the Tyros that list more than one type instrument for one display is the Flute/Clarinet and the Drums/Percussion buttons. But as you see Flutes and Clarinets are all Woodwind/Reed instruments. Yet the Tyros has two different and distinct buttons for different category Reed/Woodwind instruments, i.e. Saxophones and Flute/Clarinets making it more convenient and less confusing. Two 'separate' buttons; Saxophones being considered more of a Brass related instrument where the sound blends well with Brass instruments (sounding like Brass related instruments) as apposed to Flute or Clarinets. Bravo! Yamaha.

And as for the Drums/Percussive button on the Tyros I see no conflict since a Drum is as much of a Percussion instrument as a Vibraphone or Marimba is. And the Percussive instruments, i.e. Vibraphone, etc. are 'separated' from the Drum Kits on different pages so there should be no confusion as to what Voice you want and need or what Voice you are looking for.

Best regards,
Mike

The other nice thing about the Tyros, is you can deselect the Voice Part (I, II, or III), select your voice, then select the voice part so that it will play. This allows you to CUE-UP voices whilst playing other voices.

Mike, Al,

My experience with Tyros is limited to playing one in the store, so perhaps I will welcome any corrections to what I recall its (or most other keyboards') voice/style selection process to be.

However, if you are trying to change the voice to a different one in the same group (but on one a different page within a group), you have to select the group, end up at the first (or is it current voice's) page, and then page forward/back until you see the tone you want. It may be less of a problem on Yamahas because of the tactile feedback you receive when pressing a button, and perhaps a faster screen redraw, and possibly, a more logical grouping of tones; however, having to wade through the pages, looking for the sound you want is what I consider a problem for live playing. Having a big displays is great, but unless it allows to increase the information density (show more stuff), it is only beneficial to vision-impaired people - you see no more information on the Tyros' great big display than on a smaller one of PSR3000. In fact, even Technics with its huge display only displayed 8 or 10 selectable items at a time - a big waste of screen space. As far as I know, only GEM currently has 16 buttons on the sides of the screen, which could be (but I don't think are) used for supporting menus of 16 selectable items on screen.

Rolands (G1000, VA-series, and I am sure G70) also support multiple voices for rignt and left hands, and I too use them to "cue up" voices to be used in a piece. However, this is only a cludgy workaround to the problem of being unable to quickly change the voices in any other way (on Yamahas you can use OTS buttons). Instead, I would have liked to use voice layering for what it was intended - adding subtle nuances to the solo parts, and still have the ability to quickly make voice selections with one or two button pushes.

One approach which I thought was interesting was in Ketron X1 - the "matrix" of 24 buttons corresponded to the 24 locations displayed on screen for One Touch selections, so in the One Touch mode, you have 24 sounds selectable at a single push of a button. It had its idiosyncrasy too - the 24 cells on screen were arranged in 3 columns of 8 rows each, while the buttons were arranged in 3 rows of 8 columns each, forcing you to do a mental "transposition". Nonetheless, the idea was good.

As I said, the touchscreen gives Roland the flexibility to achieve higher information density with more virtual buttons on screen. I do hope they make use of it, and make the instrument more user-friendly.

Regards,
Alex

[QUOTE]Originally posted by g,mon:
Hi,
Yes, there is a 'very big trouble' you have. Sorry, but read the reason why in the manual.
You will find it out. Regards Hanspeter

Someone please correct me if I am wrong, but when searching for a keyboard to buy myself, I was very particular as to how quickly one could get to voices and styles. Since I am not able to see the displays, this was something that was very immportant to me. I had my keyboard choices narrowed down to my Yamaha PSR3k and a Korg PA50. I purchased the Yamaha, which was the right decision for me, but one feature I recall noticing on the korg was that pressing a group or category button more than once advanced you through the various pages of the group or style. If I pressed Guitar for example, the Guitar group would come up on page 1, but if I pressed the Guitar button 3 times, I would be on page 3. This is something I wish I could do on the Yamaha, since often, I know what I am looking for is on a certain page and it would be much simpler to just hit the category button the proper number of times to go right to the page I wanted.

If I was mistaken about this hopefully a Korg user will correct me, but I do recall liking this feature on the PA50.

Rick

[This message has been edited by ralfaro (edited 12-27-2004).]

Dont forget that you can change the view for styles, voices and song lists etc on the Tyros to allow direct numeric input of the reference number of the voice you want.

This is by far the quickest way of selecting a change but you need to remember the number.

KF

Does anyone know if numeric input is at all possible on the PSR3000? Probably not since there is no numeric keypad. I have never used a Tyros, so don't know if it has a keypad or not, but perhaps they use some other method for numeric input like the a through j buttons on either sied of the display? This would be somewhat clumsy I would think though.

Put all your "go to" sounds in one custom bank, then you can access them faster each time you open THAT bank.

Thanks for your replies.

I am not sure if there is a custom bank on the G70 for sounds, probably no but there surly is one for the styles. Maybe a custom sound bank should solve this problem.

I think that the easiest and best way to create your own favourite set of tones or style is via User Programs.
In the User Program you can save not only your favourite tone or style, but also the desired effect, split point, arranger setting, etc.
Then, you can make your own page of User Programs and recall them simply pressing one button.
This is better than every numeric input or complicated (and difficult to understand) automatic selection of favourite tones.

Performance memories is NOT the way to save "to go" sounds, precisely because the performances do save all the other stuff along with sound selection. A perf. memory recalls the entire setup of the instrument, including the keyboard mode, sounds in the left hand (and not just the solo ones), tempo changes, effect settings, octave shfts, transpositions, etc. On the G1000 there are front panel buttons (5) to lock out some of those things, which means that if you only want to change the sounds, you need to press 4 buttons to lock out the changes,and then two (or three) more to select another performance. This is WAY YOO MANY button presses while playing live. Moreover, the G70 does not have the lockout change buttons, as I understand, to you have to do this by using the touch screen.

I also don't think G70 has a custom sound bank, and even if it did, this would limit you to 8 favorite sounds on the first page, and if you need more - wade through the pages again.

Having read your posts, I believe that at present the efficiency of Roland's tone selection process lags behind Yamaha, which provides the sound banks, and Korg, which allows paging through the tone menu by pressing the bank button. It is high time for Roland to address these concerns.

Poor ergonomics was the main feature which kept me, and I am sure, many others, from upgrading to VA76, which was by all accounts a mediocre seller. With some minor software upgrades, Roland can fix this major shortcoming, and catch up to the other instruments as far as user friendliness goes.

In the past, Roland was slow to respond to user suggestions. I hope that members of this forum help Roland hear the voice of the customer.

Regards


[This message has been edited by Alex K (edited 12-28-2004).]