Here is a message I just posted on the Yahoo Style forum:
I hve just discovered, from George Kaye, that the PSR2000, although
advertised as upgradeable through Flash Rom, is indeed NOT supported
in that matter.
Yamaha still has this claim on their website, and it seems to be
blantantly untrue. Had I known this, I would not have purchased the
2000, as good as it is. I would most likely have gone to a 9000 Pro.
In addition, I have influenced four local people to purchase this
keyboard, and God knows how many over the internet.
I wish I were a lawyer or had the resources to pursue THIS matter.
The styles "thing" is a bother, but the upgrade LIE is another thing
entirely.
Oh, I'm sure there is a disclaimer from Yamaha somewhere in the small
print, but this is another instance of this large corporation doing
exactly what they want, with no consequences, then having the
unmitigated gall to complain that we want to share styles.
Simply amazing. I will be just as vocal "dissing" this company as I
have been for many years promoting it.
DonM

"Specifications and appearance are subject to change without prior notice."


Bob


PS: Don, if you need some relief:

1. Take two Tylenol

2. Read: http://www.nolo.com/humor/jokes.cfm (right side of page),
or http://www.duhaime.org/jokes.htm

3. Consider a remedy in your local Small Claims Court.

On Bob's forum a user mentioned that he will be covering the Yamaha logo on his board when performing for an audience. I will follow suit, ( that's if I even decide to keep the 2000 ) but I will not cover the logo for my PA80. Should anyone ask, I will explain ( privately most likely ) the reasons for this.

"Korg" AJ


[This message has been edited by Bluezplayer (edited 01-30-2002).]

Just because "specifications are subject to change" does not justify a misrepresentation regarding a feature used to entice people to buy the keyboard. You can't advertise a keyboard as having 48MB of sample ROM, but ship keyboards with 2MB of ROM and just say the specifications changed, see the fine print.

In this case, the PSR-2000 was advertised (I assume) as having its operating system in flash ROM so you would not have to take your keyboard in to have it upgraded. Obviously, this is an attractive feature, especially to a Pro who makes a living with the keyboard. I think Don is justifiably upset that he will have to give up his keyboard to have it upgraded.

I tend to view the world through Rose-colored glases, and I am assuming Yamaha made an honest mistake. I assume they put some code in ROM that they thought would never have to be changed, where the part that might have to be changed was put in flash. Then, it turned out something in ROM had to be changed. So, while Yamaha's mistake might be upsetting, it does not reflect anything nefarious. I think the efforts to punish Yamaha are misdirected and futile.

I might add that it may well be that most upgrades will probably be in the form of software updates. I doubt a firmware upgrade will be required everytime.




[This message has been edited by Clif Anderson (edited 01-30-2002).]

I can't punish Yamaha. This company is so big that anything I would or could do would be totally insignificant. But neither do I have to support or promote them, or use their products, if they do not act to rectify the situation.
The reason the Harmonizer issue is so important to me is that I am working with the guy who did "I Like Bread and Butter". The guy who did the high part is not a part of our act, so I must do it, using the Karaoke Girl setting. Now I have to take the old PSR8000 instead of my brand new 2000 if I want to perform this song.
There are other remedies, such as external harmonizer, but that shouldn't be necessary since the keyboard I bought is supposed to have this feature. It probably is not that important to anybody else in the world.
DonM

I think your partner should get his own harmonizer to do that high part, so you can do the backups in harmony .... the way it was on his record.

Actually, lately we've been taking both the 8000 and the 2000. He plays the 8000 and does exactly that!
Only thing is he is a piano player, and doesn't like to worry about chords, so we are working with the best way to to set up the 8000.
Don

Don,

I would suggest to everyone using a Yamaha musical instrument to cover-up the Yamaha name with tape. Clif Anderson is exactly correct in his take on the whole issue. Specs subject to change does not mean a major revision of what has been advertised. Yamaha should make the product as advertised and give you owners the oppertunity to exchange your non spec keyboards for the new ones.

Don if you need to sing the high part have your partner give you a wedgie just before the song starts. Just a thought ......

Tom

I did not pay much attention to the issue, not having bought one, but my dealer told me he had to send many of the early 2000s back to Yamaha for modification.

why do this if it could be flash upgraded?

[This message has been edited by technicsplayer (edited 01-30-2002).]

Oh man I nearly laughed my @&% off. Thanks for the light moment Tom,

" Korg " AJ

You are welcome!

Remember Enrron, Chrysler and K-mart. Maybe Chapter 11 is the next shocker. Some CEO's figure they can make more and retire and not have to put up with the hassel of competition. Just steal the money seems to be the new motto of big business.
Boo
What a scary thought!!

I looked closely at the 2000. Glad now I stayed with Technics.

My partner, Dean, is about 5'4" and 120 pounds. I am 6'5" and 250. Wedgie from him is not an option, because he can't reach that far.
Don

I don't do Bread And Butter... but I really like Don...soooo... I am going to refrain from answering audience inquiries about my PSR2000. Since I started using the PSR2000, the color of the instrument has created a lot of interest and questions. I love the speeed of the floppy, the ability to get to registrations in a nano-second and the sounds of the instruments....but, c'mon, the harmonizer issue raised by Don is important. The 740 does not include your real voice...why should the 2000?

I am also puzzled by the change in styles with the same names between the 740 and the 2000. Miniscule changes on the surface....
but not to me. Then along came the Style Sharing issue...And, now, the fury over the chip upgrade to meet the advertising claims. It's just too much.
Eddie.

I just wrote an email to Yamaha stating my dismay over these two issues. I informed them that I am much less likely to buy Yamaha on my next purchase.

Larry

Maybe this was Yamaha's intention from the begining when they introduced the psr2k? You really didn't think you were gonna get all the "goodies" that the psr9k has for $1000.00 less did you?

Donny, this really isn't a PSR2000 model specific issue. With Yamaha's new intended policy, PSR9000 owners like yourself won't have easy access to other styles (ei: CVP209, PSR2000, etc) either.

Donny...
Respectfully.... I can't imagine one of the leading companies in the industry would intentionally try to dupe its loyal customers like that. I prefer to think of it as poor judgment...which can be rectified.
Eddie

It surely wasn't an intentional thing on Yamaha's part, but cetainly a decision made at some level to keep costs down. But then, did you ever hear of a company by the name of Enron . . .
Don

They always leave you wanting more so you'll keep buying. Its all about $$$$$$

'Money makes the world go round, the world go round, the world go round' . . . Cabaret



[This message has been edited by Scottyee (edited 01-31-2002).]

Think of years ago when an "UPGRADE" meant a NEW KEYBOARD!

That's not really the point. Everybody knows how far keyboards have come. The fact is, it seems that Yamaha advertised one thing, and delivered another.
Incidentally, their silence on this matter is almost deafening. As if we are not worthy of even an explanation.
DonM

Now isn't that the truth DonM!!!!!!
I thought it was against the law to
False Advertise anything???????
NOT!!!!! Enjoying the 9000 PRO so much these day's
Denny
PS I'm still in hope Yamaha will make this right!!!!!!!!

how do I find out if my PSR2000 is from the early batch and needs the chip to be changed.

Shakil,
Turn your KB off, then push down these keys:
C#2 F2 G#2 at the same time.
Now turn the power on.
Your KB will now be in test mode.
Use the tempo plus & minus to move from test to test.
Push plus to check ver. it is the first test.
Now push the start/stop button, this will tell you which version you have.
If your KB hasn't been upgraded it will read:
Main Boot---- 1.03
Main Program--1.00
All Other-----1.00
Just like most of us here in the US. !
Regards,
Nobby

------------------


[This message has been edited by Nobby (edited 01-31-2002).]

if yamaha play tough on style issue. I think
its going to endup like casio. You can't find
any styles on the internet for mz2000 and look at the sale of this keyboard compared
to psr.(ms2000 is a good quality board, but the avalibilty of software is poor), I am also very disappointed if psr2000 OS can't be updated via software download. I really need to update the OS,
so many bugs in ver.1.00, We all mislead by Yamaha's false advertising. I am a loyal customer of yamaha and has purchased more than ten yamaha keyboards. I think I might
have to reconsider Roland, Korg, Solton, etc..

With the ever increasing advent of new arrangers comming out this year, it doesn't look "too great" for the Yamaha 10000 it has to be said. What's bad for one board...could be equal to another. Lets just say if Yamaha released a "10000 pro" tomorrow..would you go out and buy it having read this thread? - I would be "iffing" and "butting" - no doubt. If a Yamaha 10000 does evolve, don't forget to read the small print - you may be glad you did - in time..

O8

Oh henry,

Valid points ...very much so. That is exactly why I got rid of my MZ2000. It had a couple of OS bugs and virtually no support for it from the company or the internet and no provisions for an upgrade. Other than that I liked it just fine. It had some sounds that I really liked ( not all but quite a few ) and that I can't match on the PSR2000. Today I saw my old MZ2000. It is still on display at the place where I traded it in last summer. ( I knew it had been mine because it had the tiniest scratch on the left rear of the board. ) Now, I am so disillusioned with Yamaha over this OS issue and the style issue, that I nearly considered offering to trade my PSR2000 in for it, but then I'd be back to square one, wouldn't I ? I would seriously entertain a trade for a VA3 / VA5 though.

" Korg " AJ



[This message has been edited by Bluezplayer (edited 01-31-2002).]

I also have a very sour feeling toward Yamaha. I own two PSR2000s and a handmade Yamaha acoustic.

These two issues plus the fact that they often don't respond to emails makes me hope very much that in the next couple of years one of the other brands comes out with an alternative to the PSR2000's successor.

You know I have informed Yamaha twice, once by email and once over the phone, that two of the service centers they have listed in Illinois at their website don't service Yamaha keyboards. One has been out of business for two years and the other charges $80 an hour and will deduct the $25 per hour that they get from Yamaha. So you would have to pay $65 per hour for a warrantied repair. Fat chance! Yamaha has never removed these places from their website.

They just don't seem to care about their customers.

It's like Yamaha gave birth to my PSR2000 and I'm raising her. I feel like the marriage is over. Lack of service and corporate greed is like a deadbeat mom.

Larry

Excellent Point Larry. I forgot I went thru the same thing a couple of years ago. The web site directed me to several "Authorized Service Centers" that were either Kaput, no longer represented Yamaha or were half way across the state.

Another of my gripes ( might as well get 'em all out now while I'm feeling this way...lol ). I sent my PSR740 to an "authorized" repair center less than 2 years after purchasing new to repair the pitch wheel. It was gone for 11 weeks !! Good thing I didn't need it to make a living..The explanation: The potentiometer had gone bad and the service center was waiting for the part which had been backordered by Yamaha Japan for weeks. I finally got the tech to tell me the value of the Pot.. I don't remember what the value was anymore, but at the time I checked and found that it is a common potentiometer that can be had at your local Radio Shack for a buck or two. ( Don't even think of suggesting a non "Yamaha" part to a service tech though ). I have a fairly good working knowledge of electronics, and precision soldering tools, so had I realized this was the case before I sent it out and that I'd have to wait so long, I would have repaired it myself and saved a hundred twenty bucks in the process, not to mention I'm certain that I could have done the whole job in an hour or less. The tech also told me that this was a common problem, well known to Yamaha. In fact he said that at that time he had 3 other 740's at his place with the exact same problem as mine, also waiting for potentiometers that were backordered. Of course, no relief from yamaha. It was a known problem but the board was past Warranty.

Still after all of that, I bought another Yamaha ( The PSR2000 ). Now I gotta send my 2000 to a repair center for an OS upgrade ??
I don't think so.... Maybe it is ME who is to blame for buying another Yamaha in the first place.

"Korg" AJ



[This message has been edited by Bluezplayer (edited 01-31-2002).]

Hi

At the Yamaha site of USA, until yesterday, there was the
information that PSR 2000 OS was Flash ROM upgradeable.
Today that information it's not there anymore.
http://www.yamaha.com/cgi-win/webcgi.exe/DsplyModel/?gPPK00005PSR2000

I guess it is the confirmation that indeed the OS is only on EPROM.

Carlos Rodrigues

I received a phone call yesterday from Yamaha service rep, in response to an email I send questioning the Flash Rom/Eprom situation. The rep did indeed affirm that the os is not upgradeable in flash rom. He apologized, but referred to the disclaimer about "all specs subject to change".
He also said that he had heard nothing yet from Japan about the harmonizer bug, but that my "case" was still pending.
It's been "pending" for two months now.
DonM