Hi Folks,
Working on my 2'nd CD... I'm starting to feel the limitations of my psr2000. The breaks and fills using styles are kind of weak... My last CD I just used the standard... But on this one I wanted to break out and have more percussion. However, Should I use the styles, then go back and use the drum kit to enhance it. Or should I forget Styles altogether and record drums separate and do every thing manually.. With no style help... Like using cakewalk drum loops and so on... Just some input would be nice... Or some ideas on how to enhance the PSR2000 drumming with styles…
Thanks,
DJ


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I don't steer the ship, I bail out the water.
DJ
http://www.chipos.com/beachbum/

I'm fond of using the term "scratch pad" DJ. For me, that's what an arranger's other function is if I'm not using it to perform live. I can use it to help me with ideas when I create, and sometimes I can use some of the style data to assist me, but I rarely utilize much of the data from a style to compose a piece any more.

Other methods / software I use or have used for creating drum tracks:

Editing style pieces in a sequencer after I have recorded them to a song: Changing note lengths slightly, adding random velocities, shifting note placement ( aka timing nuances ) slightly on a few notes..etc. Some cal scripts that are available for Sonar can be used to assist. There are a few other software programs that do this as well, but even though it's more tedious, I like to edit everything I'm going to change individually in a sequencer.

Playing in real time on the keys ( I've become fair at it, but not expert )

Laying the pieces out individually in a sequencer, including drawing notes, recording real time and / or step time and overdubbing. ( can become very tedious but sometimes the most efficient manner if I'm looking for somerthing very specific ). Sometimes I create user arps for the Motif in this manner, and then edit later to add more "realism" to the drum tracks

Utilizing a software program to assist me with midi drum composition: I have used at different times the following programs.. and each has it's own abilties and strengths / weaknesses :

Jammer Pro ( excellent because it runs many timings other than 4 / 4 and if you mix and match style pieces you can get as weird / offbeat as needed ) Can get a lot of randomization or very little depending on how you set it up.

Cakewalk Sonar with Slicy / Fill In Drummer plug ins ( More control if desired but with plenty of randomization. Only supports 4/4, but lot's of possibilities

Drumz Wizard / Midi brainz( Old commercial program.. was very good but is now freeware, no support, does not run on xp.

Pump beta : old freeware that was a beta and was the forerunner to Bram Bros current commercial offerings. Worked very well.. runs on xp. No longer seems to be available for d/l

Jazz++ sequencer: Has algorithiumic compostion engine. Very abstract possibilities but control over what you actually get from it is somewhat limited.

A few other grid type software sequencers and some fractal and Atari platform releases that I still have but don't use very often any more. I do have and occasionally still use the freeware "Steem" engine that is an Atari emulator for the PC.

Lots of ways to go about it DJ. You just need to try some different things to see what might work best for you.

Happy New Year,

AJ

[This message has been edited by Bluezplayer (edited 12-31-2003).]

A player of long standing demonstrating Yamaha products told me when I discussed sequencing with him, he stated he always started by programming the drum track to fit the tune including fills etc: remembering this is for sequencing. Even if he used a built in style, he would still program the drum track to fit.

Graham UK

Thanks Guys,
Looks like I've got a lot of duddling to do. I admit the most lacking part of any new material i do is the drumming. AJ, sounds like you've been playing around with a lot of stuff, thanks for the advise..

DJ

You're welcome DJ.

There are demos available for Jammer Pro ( I like version 4 better ), Band in a Box, Slicy / fill in drummer, both Cakewalk (DXI ) and Cubase ( VST ) compatible,
and some other vst / stand alone programs ( fruity loops.. although it's loop based DJ and editing is needed to get any real "human" feel. Reaktor and Reason have drum machines, but ( at least in my miond ) theese are also geared more toward loop based / dance / modern pop music.

In jammer, you need to get in there and edit. It comes with pre made styles, but the variety comes when you lay down a bass drum in one style, a percussion track in another, snares in another..,etc, then tweak and make your own patterns in the opattern composer. Add a few different patterns for the same instrument anjd adjust the fills, then use the "humanize" faeture, and it gets a little more "real".

I like BIAB also because the drum composer works well and you can assign different weights to get a randomization on homemade drum patetrns.

Slicy and fill in drummer have their place as well in my lineup DJ. You can step enter notes for each drum instrument, use premade loops, and / or use the randomization feature to alter the patterns.

Nigel offers some excellent links on the SZ homepage. I'd suggest them as a starting point.

AJ