I bought a PA80 a few days ago. I like its sounds, but dissapointed mainly with fill-ins and the way voices switch.

1) when you switch a voice the previous voice stops immediately most of the time. PA80 users: Is there a way to keep the old voice playing until I hit the next key ? PSR9000/2000/9000Pro users: does it happen on your Yamaha ?

The reason I am asking is I am thinking of returning this and going for a Yamaha.

2) PA80 has 4 variations, but only 2 fill-ins. As a result these two fill-ins do not match all 4 variations. In some cases --if not most-- when you hit the fill-in button it sounds like another band rushed in to play the fill-in and went off as soos as they were done with it. How well do fill-ins blend with variation on Yamaha boards ?

3) The way the buttons respond is also odd to me. When you hit the fill-in button, the keyboard immediately jumps in to the fill-in. This steals the flexibility of changing a chord, playing a note and begining a fill-in at the same time which sometimes is the case at the end of a part when the song goes to the "dominant" for a measure or two. I prefer the way my PSR510 fill-in buttons respond. i.e. If you hit the fill-in button just before the first beat of the measure, the keyboard waits until the first beat and plays the fill-in. If you press the fill-in button a little after the first beat, only the drum track of the fill-in comes on, the other parts are played from the variation. This prevents abrupt changes from variation to fill-in. How do PSR2000/9000(Pro) behave ?

4) Sometimes PA80 plays the 5th note on bass at chord changes. This doesn't happen often, but PA80 has a very low tolerance compared to my PSR510. It happens like this. Suppose the bass guitar plays root at the first beat and 5th note at the 3rd beat and suppose you are playing C and change to G at the 3rd beat. Then the keyboard should play G not D (unless specifically asked to do otherwise) at that point and then switch to its normal pattern. One can not hit the G chord right at the 3rd beat as precisely as a computer does, so the keyboad should have some tolerance. On my PSR510, the keyboard recognizes that I meant to change to G at the 3rd beat no matter I changed the chord a split second before or after 3rd beat, But on PA80, if I hit G a split second before, the keyboard thinks I was in G alread by the 3rd beat (of course, technically that is true) and plays D at 3rd beat. This sounds odd then. This doesn't happen often, because most of the styles keep playing the root on bass most of the time hence reducing the chance of such coincidence. I guess PSR2000/9000/9000Pro behave similar to PSR510 in this regard.

I really appreciate if PA80 users can tell me if there are ways around and if PSR2000/9000/9000Pro users can tell me how there keyboards behave in this regard.

Shiral

Shiral, The PSR2000 holds the note until you release it, even after changing voices, in fact--even after you change One-touch settings.
Also, I am very impressed with the way the 2000 handles chord recognition--very tolerant.
Incidentally, the fill-ins were one of the reasons I didn't keep the PA80, along with the limited Vocal Harmony.
DonM

The new OS will allow 4 fills per style in the PA80. Hopefully, they will match the styles a bit better. With the already excellent sounds the PA80 has and the promise of the added features of OS3, I'm definitely keeping mine, but after demoing the PSR2000, I think I'll be replacing my PSR740 with it. In my opinion, both boards are a winner. For someone like me, who creates at home and in the studio more than I play out, the PA80, with all of its functions and its excellent sounds, is the clear winner, but for those times when I do play out, I'll be bringing the PSR2000, as I find it much easier to navigate already after fooling around with it for a couple of hrs, than I do my PA80, which I've had almost 6 months already.

AJ

[This message has been edited by Bluezplayer (edited 11-05-2001).]

Thanks a lot Don and AJ for the info. Thanks also for the responses in the other thread.

Shiral

You must have (at least) two (2) keyboards
to be satisfied.
Begin NOW to save money!

Krix, I have already begun

You read my mind Krix :-)

That's exactly what I am going to do. I am going to keep the PA80 and buy a PSR2000 when I have saved enough money for that. I think that's going to be a good combination; one covering up for the weeknesses of the other.

Shiral

Ditto Shiral, exactly what I'm planning to do as well. I already have the PA80 and a 740, and plan to upgrade from the 740 to the 2000, not so much because of shortcomings of one or the other, but rather because Yamaha does have a few sounds that I prefer, and the 2000 will be easier to operate for me in a live real time setting as a solo or duet act, while I'll use the PA80 more as a composition tool. Still I can see those specific uses overlapping too, as both boards seem to pretty capable of doing both things. LOL Krix, I'm thinking 3 boards at least ( my ancient M1 doesnt count though..it was a great board in it's day and I guess is looked at as a classic by some, but for me it's day is long over ), so the 3rd might be a Roland something or other or maybe better yet a Nord Lead just so I can have some real knobs to play with on those fat synth sounds.

AJ

shiral-that is what killed the deal for me with the pa80. I am amazed that the fill-in issue is just now showing up on this forum, is this not a big deal to everyone?
I spent two hours with pa80 at sam ash yesterday and sadly gave up. I really wanted to like it because it sounds good and looks cool , and yes, looks matter when I spend that kind of cash! I am glad that yamaha is getting that message-the 740 and 9000 were a big step down from the psr8000 in style points!
Bill E

Dear Buzy

Nord Lead would be a perfect choice.
Sweden needs more export-income.


Krix

Is it possible to have a reasonable cheap sound-module (synth-modul) connected to a keyboard and partially
use its (terrific?) sounds when you play the kbd?


Krix

Krix,
Yes you can have a sound module hooked up via midi and play both, or send the voices from your keyboard to the module or visa vera.
As far as reasonably priced.....that's a relative statement, but the external modules (decent ones) are in the $500.-$2000. range.
Terry

Bill, I too am surprised that not many people are concerned about this mismatch. I smelled this problem when I read PA80 specs about a year ago and even wrote to Korg as a suggestion to increase the number of fill-ins to 4. Four variations and 2 fill-ins don't match even by math. The customer support wrote back to me saying that they forwarded the suggestion to their engineering team. But that was basically it! Maybe most people use sequences, but it should be an important issue for people who mostly depend on styles. I play at friends' parties very often and I get to play what they request without having a chance to see how the fill-ins even sound like. In such cases I expect my expensive keyboard to help me. PA80 fill-ins will do the opposite for sure. Sometimes I wonder how one not see this problem at design. I REALLY REALLY REALLY hope Korg will come up with a solution for this and also for the voice truncation at patch changes. Both these are enemies of live playing as I see it.

Shiral

To the TOP!


Krix

Has anybody tried this in arranger context ? I mean playing the auto accompaniment on one keyboard using the patches on the other. I think it'll play ok, but I guess one might need to do a lot of revoicing of styles to get it all sound really nice. I once tried to play my PSR510 styles on my SW1000XG card, but it did not sound much better --if it did any better at all.

Shiral

Shiral,
I have played auto accmp. and upper lead lines through my Triton Rack at the same time. It really doesn't take a lot of tweeking, just what goes together. With the lead lines I have accessed the arps as well again, just what goes with what.
Terry

Terry,

That's good to know. What keyboard did you use to play the auto accomp., is that also a Korg ?

We once were doing some recordings way back in 1989 using --if I remeber the model numbers correctly-- Roland MC500 sequencer and a couple of Roland tone generators -- I think Y10 and Y20 or something like that. We at one point thought drums on YAMAHA Rx 5 Rythm composer sounded better and switched to that.. That was a hassel; in the fisrt run drum kit instruments were all messed up. But I think things have got standardized quite a bit since then.. it's been a while. Since then I quietly believed that if they are from different manufacturers it would be relatively harder to get them cooperate.

Your comments encouraged me to give it a try again when the need arises.

Thanks
Shiral

Shiral,
Ive done the auto. with accessing the arps on a sound module with two boars the PA and a PSR 9000.
To be sure the PA was a bit easier to make work with the T. Rack, like equipment you know, but just took a little bit more figuring with the 9000.
Terry

Thanks Terry!

looks like this forum is our Saturday news paper :-)

Shiral

[This message has been edited by shiral (edited 11-10-2001).]