In order to send out a mono signal (mixed left & right channel) out of the Yamaha PSR2000, you need to plug a PA speaker to the L/L+R output jack only, while leaving the R output jack unplugged.

If you then plug in another speaker into the R output jack, the PSR2000's right stereo signal is routed to the R output jack and the 2000's left stereo signal is routed to the L output jack.

If you then unplug the speaker connected to the 2000's L/L+R output jack, only the PSR2000's right stereo signal continues to be routed to the R output jack.

Ok, here's the problem:

When I mute the PSR2000's built in speakers (by inserting a 1/4 " dummy plug into the PSR2000's headphone jack) and want the PSR2000's output (L+R combined to create a mono signal) sent to one external PA speaker, I plug the speaker (EV SxA100) into the PSR2000's L/L+R output jack. Funny thing is that this results in a rather unimpressive thin brittle sound when you play the Grand Piano sound in the mid-upper octaves. This is especially noticeable if both the auto accomp and all other sounds are turned off.

If I instead, plug the EV SxA100 speaker into the PSR2000's R Output jack, the sound is much improved, and the piano sounds much richer and fuller. If I re-insert the PA speaker into the 2000's L/L+R jack and then insert a dummy plug into 2000's R output jack, the piano sound continues to sound full and rich.

My conclusion here is that when the PSR2000's L & R stereo signals are routed to a single output (L/L+R), that there is some kind of weird cross phasing(?) or mixing of the R & L channel signals which creates the inferior sound.

Because of this, whenever using only one PA speaker, I plug it into the PSR2000's R output channel instead of the mixed output L/L+R output jack.

Any other PSR2000 owners notice what I'm experiencing? Feedback on this would be much appreciated.


Thanks, - Scott

I guess this happens with any psr keyboard, especially when you have dsp effects and stereo samples. The stereo samples and effects create a good depth by using phase differences between the signals in left and right. When you combine them in mono, some of these signals will cancel each other out, resulting in a loss of depth in the sound. I suggest try tweaking the effects and see how it affects things, or use two stereo outputs and mix them into a single output via a small mixer - in this way you can alter the blend of left and right to attempt to compensate for some of this problem.
Try switching off the effects (reverb, dsp) and see what happens.

Simon



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Simon G.K. Williams
simon@svpworld.com
Creative Music & Multimedia
http://www.svpworld.com
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Scott,
The other thing you could try is to take a "Y" adapter of 2 1/4" males down to a single female 1/4". So you would mix L&R out of the 2k into a single female and then plug to your speaker.

A ring and tip / send return Y will do this.
jam on,
Terry



[This message has been edited by trtjazz (edited 11-13-2002).]

You're right Scott,
It's all because of the stereo samples and/or effects. Effects play a large part of the overall tone color in these units, and if you cut it in half - you DO miss something. I remember the 2k sounded better in stereo too.

Terry - I'm not positive, but I'd bet 12cents that using a "Y" cord will produce the same effect as using the summed L&R output on the back of the 2k. That's what it's SUPPOSED to do, anyway.

Scott - do you hear any weird drum dropouts when only using the Right channel? I would think that the drums are the largest "stereo hogs". Just curious.............

Simon's explanation is 100 pct technically correct. Uncle Dave is also correct in that the Y adapter would merely mix the signals outside of the keyboard, resulting in no difference.

Scott, this problem is not unique to the PSR series. Any kb that has the L/R outputs and "stereo" effects will do it. I noticed that my Motif didn't sound "right" when I first hooked it up just using the L/R output. I needed to use separate L and R outputs. The only way to use a signal from the L/R output and have it stay "clean" is to ensure that you are not using any kind of chorus or other phasing type effects.

AJ

[This message has been edited by Bluezplayer (edited 11-13-2002).]

HMMMM,
I have a ring and tip Y adapter and if I plug that in then plug to headphones or a studio monitor what I get is a summed output from both channels. Perhaps a bit softer but the entire sound is there as opposed to either channel seperately. Meaning that with the Y R & T I get close to two seperate lines out......or am I missing the point here?
Terry

Hi Terry: I think I follow Simon's, Uncle Dave's, and Bluesplayer's line of thinking here. Apparently certain sounds that rely on stereo samples and/or dsp efx (particularly the Yamaha Grand Piano) get screwed up (via phase cancelation?) when mixed together to a single output (L/R+L) or via L & R outputs to a Y connector.

I realize that connecting a single PA speaker to just the keyboard's R output only provides half the stereo signal , but believe it or not, the resulting sound is actually a lot better, than if I connect it to the L/R+L output jack instead.

Terry: Are you suggesting that using a Y connector plugged to both the R and L output jacks will sound different than connecting my PA speaker to the (L/R+L) jack alone? I would think the output results would be identical.

The BIG question to PSR2000 owners. Which way do you guys prefer (for best sounding results) to connect a single PA speaker to your keyboard?

1) R Output
2) L/L+R Output
3) Y connector to R and L/L+R Output

Scott

Scott -

Let me go one step further on this. Can't you always just use both speakers together all the time so that it's a non-factor? I realize that it may be too much for certain situations, but they're compact enough not to make a big deal space-wise, plus, you could always adjust the volumes accordingly. Just my opinion.

Angelo

[This message has been edited by cam8neel (edited 11-13-2002).]

Scott...
Another option.
On the really small one speaker jobs, come out of the headphone jack. (assuming you don't need the KB speakers as monitors). I haven't compared that to Y-ing out of L and L/R...but I have done it in really small venues and haven't noticed any problems.
Eddie

Hi ScottY and all:

This is very interesting. I now wonder how much of a difference this made when I was testing different speakers? I tried going out mono on the L/R jack like it's supposed to be designed for. I did this with Roland amps, EVsx100's and some others. I did not like the sound that much. As a matter of fact when I tried the EV's I thought they sounded awful. Which suprised me because of the great reports from Scott and Uncle Dave. The piano was especially bad. The sound could have knocked you on the floor and taken the paint off the wall. Everything else I tried on the EV's sounded bad also. I thought the mixer may have done this, but now it seems it was probably the very thing you are talking about. (the non-powered ones were the only ones they had that I could try. I had them set their mixer to flat.)

Either way I still love my new JBL's.

Scott Langholff

Yes, it's nicer to use both speakers, but not always realisticly convenient. For a full evening gig, yes, but for my type of gig schedule that occasionally consists of several single short 45 minute shows (back to back) at DIFFERENT venue locations thru the day, keeping setup/breakdown/transport time to under 10 minutes is essential.

OMG Scott !
I can FULLY understand why you were so under-impressed with the sound now.
I think Yamaha needs to issue a WARNING that going out MONO thru the L/L+R jack can GREATLY diminish the quality of the sound of instrument sounds (voices) that rely on DSP effects. If I had only judged the PSR2000 and EVs thru the L/L+R mono output, I too would have passed on the SxA100's. Thanks goodness I didn't because even if connected to the R output only, the 2000 still sounds quite impressive.

Soundwaves and radio waves have similar if not identical properties. An extreme example of phase cancellation occurs when two or more ( more makes the effect more pronouced ) signals from the same transmitter arrive at your receiver at slightly different times. For anyone who has ever listened to a distant AM station at night or a distant shorwave station, you will notice that when you listen to the station, the audio quality becomes slightkly distorted as your receiver picks up multiple signals from the same source. This is due to the phase differences that take place when two or more signals are mixed. It becomes a lot more pronounced though because not only are the signals being mixed, they are also arriving at different times as one or more signals travels over a much longer distance ie ..it is reflected off the ionosphere or possibly traveling around the world ( aka "long path" ) to get to your reciever, while the closest signal may be traveling almost directly to your receiver from the antenna.

Although I'm not suggesting that the distortion would approach what I describe above, it is present in a similar manner ( as Simon suggests ), and it will have some effect on the sound quality, depending on what effects are used and how much phasing is introduced.

AJ

Hello

It has just dawned on me as I run this info through the old mental computer that this is why when only one of my JBL's arrived and the other a day or two late, that when I tried only one it was like OK, and better than that blasted Peavey, but a far cry from two JBL's in stereo.

This probably explains why I was very unhappy with the sound of the Peavey KB300, and also when I ran my PSR2000 through the speaker/amplification section of the top of the line Lowrey organ.

Life sure has interesting lessons hey?

Which brings up the point how much I appreciate this forum and you cats. This and people like Joe Waters, Michael Bedesem,The Yahoo PSR-style forum, ScottY, Uncle Dave and way too many other names to mention. I feel you guys are really family and I sure do like that feeling.


Bye

Scott

New idea/question. What will be the result if I plug the L channel of the PSR2000 to channel 1 of my Peavey KB300 (ouch), and the R channel of the 2K to channel 2 of the Peavey? Or say even a Barbetta 32c? Would this give me the full sound I want, or would this be one of those eletronic things that I don't totally understand where one cancels something out of the other channel in terms of power, signal , sound?

Scott Langholff

I wonder how all this works on a Tyros???


Scott Langholff

This thread being bumped up to the top reminded me that after reading Scott's post,instead of just using the L/R Mono line of my kn6000 plugged into my Peavey amp (mono, not stereo), I tried plugging the L/R into one input and the R into another ... I was amazed at how much better, fuller, the sound was ..... Thanks again, guys.... Sorry I hadn't posted this sooner, because it is probably something we all should try even if we are using a mono system ...
t.