Hello All,

What on earth is happening at Synthzone?

I have been coming here for years and it has never been as bad as this. Petty arguments over whose gear is better is one thing but personal attacks are quite another.

Then in the middle of it all we have members taking obvious delight in stirring the pot a little more in order to provoke a response.

If you take the view that this is 'Just the Internet' then feel free to tell me to get a real life.

HOWEVER.... in my opinion this may be just an online forum and I may not have actually met the majority of you BUT this in no way de-values my interactions or relationships here. I actually care as much about what happens here as I would if a group of my 'non internet' friends were at each others throats. Words can hurt others just as much if they are written as when they are spoken out loud.

I have tried to leave when things have got silly in the past but this forum draws you back somehow. However we need to sort ourselves out otherwise Synthzone will stop being special. All of us have more than enough hassle to cope with in everyday life without signing on here for a heap more.

I made a resolution a while ago to try not to post negatively when someone got my back up. Lately it has been hard to keep BUT if we all tried I am sure that things would get back to how they should be.

I'm not having a go at anyone, I'm not apportioning any blame, I don't care who said this and who said that and above all I am not taking sides.

All I am asking is that we all think about what we write BEFORE we write it, think again BEFORE we retaliate (or at least keep it in private emails) and try to remember that there are real people who will be affected for good or for bad by what we post here.

Of course I don't want Synthzone to become a sanitised eutopia of politeness where there is no passion. Healthy debate is a good thing and something that the members here excell in. BUT there is a big difference between healthy debate and what has been going on here lately.

I am not trying to be superior or patronising here, beleive me some of the posts in my head lately have been as bad as the worst of recent examples. BUT at least I managed to KEEP THEM IN MY HEAD and as a result no-one has been hurt or offended by my words. After a day or two passed I was so relieved I had not posted them because I want my friends to see the best of me not the worst.

Well that is it. If you agree with my observations or not I am sure that we all agree that Synthzone is worth the effort. That is a good starting point imo.

Best wishes to all
Tony

Hello Boo,

Actually I had a similar situation. I bid for and won a TC helicon voice prism a little while ago. Dave said when I had put my bid in that he could beat the price. However because I had bid I felt obligated to honour it however much I would have prefered to buy from someone I knew and trusted. I was hoping to be outbid but it did not happen. I explained this to Dave and he understood that a bid is a bid.

Typically however the voice prism was damaged on arrival and I am still trying to sort the mess out! So no voice prism and the money I had saved for it gone! Still it could be worse! I have had over a hundred flawless ebay transactions both buying and selling so it won't put me off.

I hope you enjoy your laptop! My employer very kindly bought me a Dell laptop last year so I got rid of my aging Sony Vaio. I think my employer knew what he was doing though because now I don't take a book to bed I take the laptop and catch up on work!!!

At first I was going to use the Laptop for music as well but ended up using the laptop for work and my own pc for everything else!

Best wishes
Tony

Hi Tony,
It sure is good to have you back with us after your travels.
DonM

I participate in about eight forums regularly, both online and in subscribed newsgroups. None are more "sensitive" than Synth Zone... bruises appear with so little provocation here that it feels like egg shells are everywhere.

I used "WTF" in an Arranger post recently and got several responses about "the use of profanity" when I've seen WTF used regularly in other forums with no notice at all (heck, it's an abbreviation! It means whatever you want it to mean). Touchy, touchy.

Why people in this forum have to be so careful and polite is beyond me - more like a tea party for old ladies than a gathering of musicians. I wouldn't be so restrained in my comments in real life so why would I want to do it here? Measure twice, write once? I'd rather not write at all. How many movies do you sit through that only have good guys in them? That would be pretty dull, eh?

Loosen up the belts ladies and leave your regrets at church - the men need a little room to exercise their opinions. A few egos could stand a bruise or two if only to keep them from growing entirely out of proportion, just like in real life.

Sometimes you gotta say WTF...

Jim, the difference..on line comments, you don't have to face consequences for your actions[words]...allowing most of us to get away with anything we say....In the real "bar"...you are face to face, and comments that we put in print on line..if they were spoken in the presence of my family or friends..would probably annoy me enough..that you would land on your butt...very much unlike a tea party...BTW, I love my tea,,matter of fact, I am going to have a cup now..

......Maybe, if your vocabulary skills are challanged, or your Momma never taught you any manners. I see these forums as public places, and in my world - abusive language is never tolerated in public places.
BTW - what do you have against ladies or church goers? A real man would know how to behave in the presence of both.

Again, thank you UD, you have eloquently summed up the feelings of more than a few of us, I think.


[This message has been edited by mikeathome1 (edited 01-11-2005).]

I've seen the WTF abbreviation before and though I don't normally choose to use it, the WTF abbreviation is merely the universally & commonly accepted on the internet acroynm used to express ANGER & FRUSTRATION :
http://www.mp3-faq.org/tips/abbrv.html

of which its emotion (as clearly evidenced by your reactions) CANNOT be matched by a legitimate word.

Come on guys: NONE of us are saints (I'm not), or should be shocked (or appalled) to read this, especially coming from members who claim to work & play in bars, where this kind of talk is commonplace. I'm willing to bet everyone of you (including myself) have resorted to actually saying: "What the f _ _ k" on at least one occasion in your lifetime. If not, I seriously doubt your honesty (of which is a lot MORE important to me).

As far as Jim's reference to: ladies and church-goers, he was only attempting to stress a point. There really appears to be a : "if I say it, its ok, but if you do, it's not ok" attitude going on among some members here. This type of reference has been used before here by others in the so called SZ 'good ol boy' click, but when someone else like the Pro chooses to use it, it's now suddenly: an attack against women & church.

I realize that you guys claim to be Christians, so let the words of the Bible guide you: "Let him who is without sin cast the first stone".


Scott

Scott, you missed the point...we are at the "Bar", we can say and do what we want..unless that BIG bouncer says we are outta here..

PS: don't forget anyone can see what you write on the internet, not just our musically linked group....your mother, your children , your preacher, even your boss at home and work...

Just the other day a friend[who happens to be a great musician], searched for help info on the net[I think a PA1Pro question], and he was surprized to run across a quote from me on the subject VIA SZ...

These words and your reputation go much farther than our SZ members..

BTW, my comments[earlier post] were not in jest ,I am serious, but feel the need to lighten things up a bit...

[This message has been edited by Fran Carango (edited 01-11-2005).]

Personally, I don't believe that WTF or any form of profanity should be used in a PUBLIC ANYTHING--PERIOD! And, not everyone on this forum is a Christian.

I thoroughly agree with UD about this one.

Bottom's up,

Gary

How about pornograhy? Is that ok?

What I find INTERESTING is that it was deemed perfectly allowable (no member complaint replies) for someone to post (as well as members to provide provacative comment on) the picture of the sexy naked UPS delivery lady that was posted on a SZ thread back in October of 2002 (albeit subsequently removed, but many days or weeks later):




The above appeared in the following SZ thread:
http://www.synthzone.com/ubbs/Forum37/HTML/004675.html

yet some of you, in THIS instance, now decide to take a position of moral superiority just because the WTF acronym was given, not even mentioning the phrase it 'supposedly' stands for.

I really think you guys are making this too much of an issue, but what do I care, this is a bar, and anything goes. btw: Where's that UPS delivery gal disappeared to anyway? Fran's place?

Scott

I just wonder if a bar brawl ever erupted, who'd come out a winner?

I bet five bucks on either UD or Don Mason (?)

Just kidding you guys.

Thanks a lot Scott, this one is nice for my English Language course.
All that sudden I've learned a lot of new words, I mean letters to say
Tomorrow I'll tell my boss to STFU

HP (Happy Playing)
GJ

Jonas: Ok, I might be smaller than these guys but I know: karate, tai kwan do, and gung foo . . . well at least I know 'the words' anyway. - Scott

Isn't that a chicken & veggie dish?

If it really counted....put your money on me!!

Scott, you really think the UPS delivery girl 's photo was "porn"?..She was well dressed compared to what I see down the shore, even in Super markets[grocery stores]..

[This message has been edited by Fran Carango (edited 01-11-2005).]

LOL@ Scott and UD-

Come to think of it I DID have gung foo with sweet and sour sauce the other night

Fran- I haven't seen your pic, but I've seen UD and looks like he's could've roughed up a few people before

[This message has been edited by KN_Fan (edited 01-11-2005).]

UD has NEVER roughed up anyone! There are a few folks out there that would love a piece of me, but I dodge the bullit everytime!
Now, Fran ...... he's a hothead.

Nah not me , but I'm sure that many of those people offended by the use of the "WTF" accronym would also be offended by & consider that picture highly salacious & inapropriate for posting on a public forum as well. I was only using this to point out the hypocrisy. - Scott

Leave it to Scott as always, to set things straight, keep up the good work.

I haven't had a fight since I learned how to apologize. Besides, I'm just a wee bit of a lad.
DonM

Glad to discover someone else here able to understand the LOGIC of my reasoning. Synth_Guy, thanks for your support. - Scott

Honestly, a 'good' WTF doesn't offend me at all. It's just a form of expression that frankly doesn't shock me at all. I know a lot of very good people that use WTFs in their common language. It bothers me a lot more to 'see' certain attitudes in between polite words. Now, using WTF can be a way of provoking other people, of course. Not good, of course. Bottom line: use WTFs tastefully and our friendship will be untouched.

-- José.

A bar fight? Isn't this coming from some of the same guys that complain about the weight of anything heavier than a Tyros? I'll be at the East Coast Jam ladies... just look for the big guy. Perhaps while I'm there you'd like to meet my lovely petite wife - a former armed JFK airport security officer that has appeared on the cover of "Black Belt". To make this sporting, you should put any questions about my manhood to her instead of me, Uncle Dave... and I'll cover any bets.

Thanks for the note of support Scott but I don't see anyone here that fits the morally-superior motif, no matter WTF they may think.

btw guys, since it was ME who had initially brought up martial arts on this thread, it's perhaps an interesting COINCIDENCE to discover that WTF stands for the:

"World Taekwondo Federation" as well
http://www.wtf.org/

Three cheers for: WTF !

Scott

I got your back fellows! Way back!

OK I admit my original post may seem a bit 'loved up' and idealistic but that is just the way I am. I hate confrontation of any kind, always have and probably always will.

I know I can also sound self rightious sometimes as well but it is never my intention.

I think Pro made an excellent point in that synthzone is indeed the least agressive forum I have been on and I have been surfing the net for years. (when 28k modems were state of the art ) Still for me that is Synthzones charm and I think it worth preserving. Just because it is the norm that every other forum gets devisive and agressive I don't see why it should therefore neccesitate that things be the same here.

Having said that I am fast coming to the conclusion that some folks just love to argue or at least are naturally autocratic. (how is that for a euphemism ) If that floats your boat then who am I to say it should not be so? If that is what you come for and what you enjoy then fine.

It does not mean I have to be party to it though and I refuse to be. If arguments start getting devisive and the protagonist start to expect members to fall into camps of support then leave me out of it. I'll just tootle off to the next topic and leave y'all to it.At least then we are all happy.

Pro, with the greatest of respect, you state that you would not be as polite in real life so why should you be any more so here (apologies for the paraphrasing).

I think there is a marked difference in that in real life I have a choice if I interact with you or not. If I don't like what you say (or more to the point how you say it) I can choose to be in your company or not). Here I have no choice at all. You are as much a member as any of us and have a perfect right to say what you will on any thread topic. Once you have posted it is there for all to see. It is very difficult to ignore a post if one does not agree with it, takes offence or feels slighted and then things get self perpetuating. I think that is why I felt that there is an obligation for us to be more responsible or at least courtious when posting than in 'real life'.

I am not a prude (or an old lady ), indeed my language and behaviour leaves much to be desired at times (so my mother informs me anyway ). BUT surely we all moderate our behaviour at certain times and in certain places? I know that I do when here at Synthzone BUT I do accept that this is a personal choice and I have no automatic right to expect the same from others.

Your analogy of films and bad guys has made me think however and I have to agree that things would be rather bland if we all agreed about everything all of the time! I have lost count of the times I have wanted the bad guy to come out on top in a film. Even I can't twist that round to fit my point of view here

Best wishes to all
Tony

Good post Tony.

Scott is right, it's too hypocritical here. Everybody starts joking about a bar fight and it's all fun and games until somebody like me makes a remark in kind, then it all changes rather quickly. It's too stuffy in here with all the critics and censors and where did all the musicians go anyway? Oh never mind, I see them leaving now...

Enjoy your bar ladies... think I'll go out in the parking lot and play some circles around this place... circle of fifths of course...

Shouldn't have posted in haste. I deleted it. Sorry Pro.
DonM

Ounce more I say "Can't we all just get along"

Imagine if this was a real bar, half of us would of been banned already. Truth be told that some of the agressive bashing wouldn't come out at a real bar. Bar stools, beer mugs and a flying 8-ball can really put the hurt on....LOL

Take it from a honkey tonk music veteran...This "aint" no bar fight!

...No drunks or jealousy (mostly).
If we were all in a bar together, there would be no blood or broken bones...just some bruised egos and feelings. We value this dialogue and diversity or we wouldn't bother. The common bond of love for and/or involvement in music makes all this happen.

Even the most contfrontational of us cares enough about our position on the issues to take the time to participate, articulate or aggrivate!

In a bar, reason sometimes disappears and people get hurt! Nobody here is trying to hurt anyone.

In self-defense, I've bloodied noses and broken some bones, and I'm not proud of that (years ago when I was young, dumb, dodging beer bottles, thinking I was an albino Jimi Hendricks).

We're individuals with opinions and we want to express them...that's not a bad thing. The anonymity of the web causes actions that would never happen face to face.

Respecting the rights of others to have and express opinions not necessarily in line with our own would go a long way towards
making this interaction more enlightening.

But, what the hell do I know...I'm still nursing bruised knockles from 1964!

Keep swinging!

Russ

Well, Nigel - you did it! You made this place a REAL bar! The "beer muscles" are flexing all over. Feels just like work, sometimes.
You guys crack me up .....