CLONK HERE and then on "IS THERE ANY WAY OF KNOWING" (I think it's last song on page):
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/6/billordukethesongwritermusic.htm

I would love to have your opinion on this song, whichever way you view the current admin. Honestly, I'm trying to figure out whether to do a full-blown demo on this song. (To pitch to artists.)

I've spent over two years writing this song. Trying to figure out exactly how strong do I want to be. I'm close to making a decision. (I have many verses.)

My biggest dillemma is... does this song offend?

Thanks for your time.

Peace and love, that 60s stuff

[This message has been edited by SemiLiveMusic (edited 01-20-2005).]

I'm not offended, but I was, however, sure that I didn't want to listen to any more than the first 15 seconds of it. In fact ... I'm watching the inauguration of MY president right now. Hail to the chief !
My opinion, right? That's what you asked for. I think the party cost too much money, but politics has ALWAYS been about glitz.

Bet it didn't cost any more than Clinton's.
DonM

UD . I also supported "W", not because I liked ALL of his decisions, but moreso because I never knew what Kerry's decision was ...
I did have second thoughts about the big inaugural parties, etc. in light of what's going on around the world ...
t.

Thank you for your opinion based on 15 seconds.

Bush 2005: 40 Million
Bush 2001: 35 Million
Clinton 97: 23.7 Million
Clinton: 93: 25 Million

And I don't give a flip about Clinton.

The thread is not about inauguration.

Never mind. The answer to the thread's question is obvious.

Obviously being a non usa person I was not offended at all, but I could not make the connection to the topic title and the song!
It sounded more like a protest against how the usa nation is acting in the past and present.

Glad you said it wasn't about the inauguration

About the song;
I think your lyrics are very polite, so how could anybody be offended, unless ofcourse when you feel guilty.

But it might be that I am missing something as american is not my native language.
There's a dutch proverb saying:
Whoever fits the shoe turns it on.

When I can believe the polls ? there are about 50% americans who will agree with you.

This is the bar so anything can be discussed as long as you stay polite

Fred

Semi,
I really didn't mean to insult you or your writing style. I just think I knew where you were headed at the get go. Since I knew we differed on the issues referenced - I thought it best to just pass it by. That's the risk you take by bringing up political issues, right? I fully support your right to belive what you do, and I'll never try to vhange anyone's mind about their candidate. I just wanted to take a stand on my side of the fence, and state my claim!

Want to post an instrumental version of the song, and we can evaluate it without bias?

I'm really not a soapbox preacher - I just feel that in times of trouble, and unrest it makes sense to stick to your guns(not literally!)and let your voice be heard.
I hope your lyrics were true to your ideas and I wish you well with the song. Truly.

Fred, the title to the thread is sarcasm. I'm guilty of that.

Bush is being inaugurated today. The song is a protest song. I have watered this song down countless times, trying to remain artistic yet NOT to offend as many people as I can help. I do not wish to offend. Not that I don't have strong anti-Bush feelings (I do, I cannot stand him) but because most of my friends and family support him. I am an outcast. They have his picture on their refrigerator. I want to stab it.

I have a true dillemma -- do I say in the song what I really want to say or do I water it down, yet have it still remain truthful and hard-hitting. I am searching for the latter.

In the version you would hear at that link, there is this first verse...

We have all been disappointed from some ones who we've annointed
Who have lied about their actions, seeking headlines for distractions
From the truth
Exploiting youth

Now, Dave heard 15 seconds, so he didn't get past line 2, which I thought was rude of him to even bother to reply with such. He didn't get to the part about Watergate, Viet Nam, Strom. LIES. The song is saying that this country has been subject to LIES. Which is incredibly sad. It's even sadder if the man with Jesus on his sleeve, Mr. Bush, has lied, since he deems himself (and takes great pride) as "The War President." If he hasn't lied, then it's nothing more than a mad protest singer wailing away with his silly opinion.

For my own use, do I put this on a CD? I don't know. Only if I think it's at a point where it "should not" offend. Do I pitch this to artists? That's a possibility. There are some pop/folk artists who like protest songs. I'm just still trying to see how far to go with it (lyrically).

The good news is that even though I have spent hundreds of hours on this song lyric, since I posted this, no kidding, I think I know how I want to do it. I'm going to whack out the verse about the direct reference to lying and I'm going to whack out the verse about warriors/exploiters (supporting the troops... which was my favorite verse, doggone it). I am going to do this so that it can be a protest song but more timeless... less about today, 2005. Ideally, it would be good ten years from now as well as today.

If people think that we have not had lying in this country's top levels, sorry, I can't help ya there. But if I take out as much of the anti-Bush references and still have a good song, I have accomplished my objective.

This is now what I have. I'm going to start out with the bridge, which is unique. To set forth PROVEN lies of the past.

=

"IS THERE ANY WAY OF KNOWING"
©2005 All rights reserved

Is there any way of knowing exactly where we're going

[ BRIDGE: ]
History shows Viet Nam
We had Watergate and old man Strom
Truth is hard for a Pinnochio
For our daughters and our sons,
we must watch elected ones, watch the nose

Someone gave me a suggestion, he said We should always question
Look at all sides of issues, if we don't, there will be misuse
At the top
It's hard to stop

When again you think you feel it, don't hide it, don't conceal it
We need your own opinion of the leaders and minions
Running 'round
Hey, what's that sound

Is there any way of knowing exactly where we're going

[ BREAK ]

Many years ago, Abe Lincoln had a vision, he kept thinkin'
We'd protect the Constitution, Thomas Jefferson's solution
To the Crown
What a clown

If you cannot buy the reason, you should say so or it's treason
Teddy Roosevelt first said it, bitter pill deserves credit
If you ache
Hey, what's that taste

Is there any way of knowing exactly where we're going ( 3x )

===END===

If that offends anyone, I don't think I can do anything about that. That's about as mild as I can make it.

That's just it. Every song is pro-Bush. I live in Texas and it's far worse than other places, for obvious reasons. Eminem came out with one lately that is anti-Bush. I haven't heard it, I don't listen to his type of music.

But in the kind of music I hear, it's all pro-Bush and I am tired of it. When I play this at gigs (and there are obviously a lot of people in the audience who think there is something to protest about... has to be a college town), I get great reaction to this song. I'm searching for the ideal middle-ground. Is the protest song dead? I hope not. I hope as of right now, I'm closer with the version I just came up with.

SemiLiveMusic: I think your song might benefit from changing it to a 'VERSE - CHORUS' song structure. Right now its basically a series of verses. I keep wanting to hear a CHORUS (after each verse) of which might include the 'hook line': "Don't know Where We're Going", to 'summarize' what you're trying to convey in your verses. Just my opinion of course.



SemiLiveMusic: Stick to your convictions! Don't compromise your beliefs. Can't speak for Texas, but the message of your song would certainly be well received by many here in BLUE State California, especially the SF Bay Area.

- Scott

I have had this dilema myself on more than one occasion.

There are two songs on my website that I wrote and NEVER publicised here at Synthzone and for good reason. (Soldier Boy and Sodom and Gomorrah.)

Usually when I write a song I know exactly what the message is (as far as I am concerned) but try to make the lyric as ambiguous as possible so that as many listeners as possible can take their own 'message' from it. Sometimes this weakens the original concept and sometimes strengthens it.

On the two occasions listed above I have felt strongly about issues and felt I would be compromising myself by 'watering down' what I wanted to say. HOWEVER whilst I felt strongly about the issues concerned (war and homophobia in religion) I realised that not everyone would be of the same opinion as myself.

The only reason I post songs on here is to get feedback and ideas about my work and how to improve my technique. Both the songs above (and yours if I may dare to suggest it Semi) provoke critiques that are about the subject matter as opposed to the song itself. If people hate / disagree with the message they are going to find it difficult to then be constructive with regard to the song.

Personally I did not want the songs above to be judged on the 'message' alone.

I did consider that this may have been 'chickening out' but came to the conclusion that If I posted the songs on my website they were there if people chose to listen and could be ignored otherwise. Interestingly I get more emails about these two songs than the rest put together.

People have a perfect right not to like my work because it is amateur or because I lack talent but I do not want them to prejudge all of my work because they did not like the content of a tiny proportion of it.

I think it brave to offer up 'controversial' work for critique and to be honest if people did not do so we would probably have no 'protest' songs at all. But brave as it is I don't think that having done so you can react with surprise that it is the content rather than the song that provokes comment.

Having said all that I really did like your song, and as stated before I think it is the best song you have posted on your site. (I think I critiqued this song on a previous thread when you posted other work so I won't make my long waffle of a post any longer by doing so again).

For the record I am apolitical and am tired of polititians of all persuasions corrupting the ideals of democracy. While there are people who starve, people who live on the streets and people dying because there is no profit in making them well then none of the politicians OR ANY OF US have a right to be smug about anything.

However I do feel grateful to have been born somewhere that at least gives me the freedom to express my views without fear of harm.....so maybe it is not all bad

Very best wishes to all
Tony




------------------
www.tonywmusic.co.uk

Scott, I have written 300 songs. 99% of them are verse/chorus structure. There are, however, thousands of songs (especially in folk music... and this is kind of folky) with a refrain. My refrain is "Is there any way of knowing exactly where we're going."

As I said, I've been writing on this for two years. I have tried countless versions. A version I had for a long time had two choruses... so I definitely "hear what you're saying." Actually, I called them bridges... whatever you want to call them. They were the part where it says "History shows Viet Nam / There was Watergate and old man Strom" etc. That section would be the chorus. (And a second chorus followed later.)

I decided this song is much more powerful with a refrain... "Is there any way of knowing... exactly where we're going."

So, I hear ya... I did try it the traditional way... but to me, this song is best with a refrain. I dunno... still debating.

As far as my convictions... thanks for your support. I didn't post this for support. I truly have been struggling with the "Does this offend you?" dillemma. If I lived in California (or if I was not so fond of country music), this would not be an issue. I am surrounded by people who think I am the bad guy. I don't say I'm right about Bush. I just know it is extremely heavy on my heart.

I have felt this strongly three times in my life about an individual. In my adult life, 30 years, three times. And as it turns out, three times, I was right. I think he's a fake. I think he is nothing like what my friends think he is. And I wrote a song about it.

Peace and love, that 60s stuff
To all

Tony, we're on the same page. I could write volumes about this.

By the way, yes, I remember when you commented about this song, unsolicited. I was quite proud of that. I am proud of this song and you liked it over others, that made my day. Man, I've worked so hard on this! Which doesn't matter, I know.

I have posted this song before on several forums, seeking input. Reason is, again, I am surrounded by people who disagree with what I feel. So, what's a fella do?

I was brought up in the 60s. The era of dissent. It seems to me, that today, in the deep south, anyway, dissent is the bad guy. And I'll leave you with this...

"Dissent is the highest form of patriotism." - Thomas Jefferson

=



The thing is, my question was pertaining to message alone. The posted song is a very rough demo, guitar/vocal only. It's not about anything other than the message. Does it offend?

And again, the lyric I posted above, that's about as mild as I can make it and have it say anything.

[This message has been edited by SemiLiveMusic (edited 01-20-2005).]

Semi,
Protest away! I mean it .... you SHOULD say exactly what you feel in your heart. THAT's what this country is about, and I'll support your right to say it in song any day, anywhere. Go for it, and see who listens.
No one expects us all to agree.