I play a gig tomorrow night and the ventilation is not too good. The smoke is never terribly bad but bad enough. I know of a couple of people coming (then there's ME!), who really don't like the smoke. The bar is probably 60' x 60'. I was wondering if I placed a fan at the door (the only door that I know of), do you think that would help? If it blows along the ground, would that be about as good as up at the top of the door? Any ideas?

I was thinking of making a big sign for my stage "If you smoke, thank you for smoking LESS in here." I wonder if that would make smokers mad enough to leave. I don't want them to leave but I sure hate smoke and as I said, I know people who want to hear me but they hate smoke.

I sympathize with your problem.

I don't think a fan will have much of an impact on the smoking situation. You would need cross-ventilation; a fresh air source at one end of the building and an exhaust at the other end.

Also, any sign will only offend smokers who are very sensitive to being singled out.

I would move to New York where we don't have this problem anymore; Yahoooo!!!!

Man, I know how you feel...when I was doing Vegas and AC, it never failed, we always had some Wise Guys come in to see the show and pull out the giant stoggies and just continue to puff away not thinking about anyone but them selves....I think that Al has the solution, open a window on one side of the room and put a big fan onthe other side of the room facing out the other open window.....I think the sign would only prove
to make some of them somke more if you know what I mean....Try wearing an oxygen mask between songs and when they ask why the mask you can tell them it's because of the smoke
maybe it will make them wake up....good luck

Anyone know if hotel bars would likely have a setting on their central air thermostat that provides for continuous "fan" setting like you do in your home? So air is always circulating?

With no offense to the smokers out there ... I smoked cigs for about 15 years (gave them up about 30 years ago) but I remember how I enjoyed it and how difficult it was to quit ... and I would hate to give up my 'golf course' cigar now, but that could be coming ...

SLM ... You might reduce the smoke effect by placing the fan close to you, blowing away from you ... I agree with kbrkr that any sign might offend the smokers, and possibly the management ... After all, YOU are the one who decided to work there ...
This is one of the hazards of 'club' work ...
When I work a smokey room, I usually hang my clothes in the garage when I get home ... then it's off to the dry cleaners ...
Fortunately, RI becomes the 7th smoke free state in the country next week ...
t.

There should be a 'fan' setting ...
t.

Who is that son of a birch that invented cigars? I want to kill that jerk. There was a guy in the bar last night puffing away on one, I wanted to snatch that sucker out of his mouth and just stomp it on the ground. Wouldn't I love to be 6'8" and 280 lbs.

Hey, I just remembered a song I wrote. A silly, folky story song...

===

“KEN THE CONMAN CAVEMAN”
©2004 Bill Pittman All rights reserved

Ken [D] the conman [C] caveman started [D] it
Ken invented booze and ciga-[A]-rettes
First [D] thing was blueberry beer
Then [C] found tobacco leaves grew here
Told [D] Gonzo, See these [A] leaves, I got an [D] idear

Ken [D] said when they're [C] dry, we'll roll 'em [D] tight
We'll light the end and suck with all our [A] might
Gonzo [D] said Aw, come on, Ken
Who [C] would want to suck smoke in
You're [D] just drunk, your [A] logic sure is [D] thin

But [D] Ken the conman [C] caveman was a [D] pro
Drank blueberry beer, made Gonzo [A] roll
Movin' [D] 'round the campfire there
Dodging [C] campfire smoke for air
Gonzo [D] said, See, [A] Ken, smoke's bad, I [D] swear

Soon, [A] Gonzo 'as puffin' like a [D] train
Caveman [A] peer pressure was to [D] blame
Then [G] Ken said Let's hunt a deer
We'll [D] take cigarettes and beer
They [D] wheezed thru the [A] forest, all could [D] hear

A cigarette was dangling from his lip
Gonzo said, Hey, Ken, we sure look hip
Ken said Yeah, at caveman school
I was voted Mr. Cool
And when you got it, use it, that's a rule

Somehow, Ken got tangled up in vines
Stompin' 'round, discovered he'd made wine
Wine and cigarettes and beer
Just like rednecks hunt a deer
Where that came from, now, that much is clear

Yeah, Ken the conman caveman did us in
Sold the rights to homo sapiens
Adam fell for anything
When it came to pleasing Eve
And Eve said Ken was sexy, blowing rings

Ken and Gonzo fin'lly lost their mind
Neanderthal, a victim of the vine
Ken's wife, Barb cut off the kiss
And Gonzo's wife stayed really pissed
Booze and cigarettes did all of this

They all died without a single kid
Thank God, Eve and Adam fin'lly did
It could happen again, homo sapiens
Ken the conman caveman started it

SLM ... I think you should sing that song every set at your club gig ...That should get the crowd's attention ...

While I do enjoy a good cigar on the golf course or while working on the lawn or garden, I don't smoke them indoors... Wouldn't be celebrating 42 years of wedded bliss if I tried that ... ...

When we had the band in NYC, the sax player was especially sensitive to cigar smoke ... We had a couple of functions we played every year that this particular cigar smoker attended, and guess what his favorite instrument was? ... RIGHT .. and all night he would stand next to the bandstand right near the sax player smoking this long stogie !!! ...
Used to kill us trying to do vocals too....
t.

Some of the places we work down the Jersey shore are a mixed barrel...The Bolero[new hotel] is great with a two plus story high ceiling and a decent ventilation system...Right up the street from the Bolero[Wildwood] is Alfe's..It is usually pretty good, untill you get a couple cigar smokers up near the stage...it seems to draw to us on stage...BTW ,this is where UD will be joining me and JoAnn on stage Saturday night[our lead singer is getting radiation treatments]...

The worst place we play is in Philly at Lyrics..we play to more than 250 people[dancers]...the smoke is so bad,we play behind and above the bar[large stage]..
How bad..besides having to get undress before coming into my house..the reak is umbearable..sooo baddd,I insist on another $50 each to put up with it...

I envy ScottYee with his smoke free work places...

I don't worry about insulting smokers,,they have no idea how bad they smell...and you don't have to be 6'8"..280lbs to tell them....5'7"..180 lbs will do..

Install a big non-smoking label on the entry. So, if anyone wants to have a cig, then he has to go outside.


------------------
Greetings from Frankfurt (Germany),
Sheriff ;-)

I hear ya but it seems so silly not to be able to put up a sign that says "If you can smoke less while here, this singer thanks you." Or something like that. Point being, they (smokers) don't give a damn about me an other non-smokers. Why shouldn't I be able to put up a soft-sell sign?

I have often thought... after I watch chain smoker after chain smoker, one after another... for four hours non-stop... and the damn bar is just unbearable... if many of them would just damn, lighten up a bit... if they would just try, they don't have to keep one lit the whole damn time. There are many times they go for long periods without ANY cig. So, just cutting back a bit would help. If you have a guy like me with a sign up, it's obvious. I dunno. It sucks, I know that.

I have come across two singers in the past month, each is 45 to age 50 and their singing voice is just shot. They say "Yeah, these damn cigarettes." And it is. You can hear in their manly voice and their hacking. What a pitiful lot we are, human beings.

The Gonzo jerk (in my song), what an idiot. I wrote that song after musing with a friend, "Who is the idiot s.o.b. that one day said, "Hey, why don't we roll some leaves up and let them dry and light the end and suck the heat and smoke into our lungs? That oughta be really nice." What a pathetic habit. Screw tobacco companies. Screw the Carolinas. If you say you wish tobacco would just disapper, people say, "Yeah, but Uncle Vern will be ought of work. He grows tobacco." Duh. Get another line of work, Vern.

Not too many years ago, cigarette smoke cost me an amp. It was a fan-cooled Peavey 600-Watt stereo amp/mixer that really rocked. The cooling fans, unfortunately, drew air through small vents and one end and expelled the air out the other. After two years of playing at the Havre de Grace, MD American Legion (Blood & Guts Saloon) cigarette tars had coated every slider, pot and jack connection to the point where they no longer made contact. Fortunately, I had an extended warranty and Peavey replaced it. I stopped playing there the following week. The smoke was so bad that a pair of $3,500 smoke eaters had no effect on the air quality at all.

As for the sign, it would probably result in instant unemployment.

Gary

Hand nicotine packets out to every1 before the show Remember though, its up to the bar whether or not to do this stuff, im sure they dont want anything to make smokers leave. Or get/rent/borrow an ionic breeze, and place it by you, they work quite nicely.

Phil

[This message has been edited by Pennywizz6 (edited 02-25-2005).]

This point is absolutely correct, I'm afraid. I would really like to know what they would do if all bands, all singers and all comidians would refuse to play in nicotin contaminated bars.
Live acts? Only in cleaned and freshed air, please!


------------------
Greetings from Frankfurt (Germany),
Sheriff ;-)

Bill,
Ironically, in yesterday's Shreveport Times there was an article stating that a proposal is on the books to ban smoking in all public places in Shreveport. Of course even if it passes it will be too late to affect your gig Saturday.
BTW, it looks as if I may be able to attend after all. But if it's as smoky as you say, I won't stay long!! I worked there several years ago, and don't recall the smoke being that bad.
DonM

I smoked cigarettes for 40 years until recently. I must admit I enjoyed it and I still miss it. But even when I was still smoking I had stopped smoking in my cars and other enclosed spaces. And it in turn cut back my smoking. Even though I was still a smoker I even found smokey atmospheres offensive so I really understood how non-smokers disliked it even more than me. I wouldn't have been at all offended by any sign that suggested smokers kept it outside or at least at a minimum. It really depends on how it is written. If it comes across as a polite request then most people would respectfully abide by it without taking any offense. It's nothing for a smoker to slip outside if they really have to. In California all bars are now non-smoking which the singers in my band are very happy about because it had a very detrimental effect on their voices. Even though smoking is now banned in bars there is a slight loophole in the law that allows bars where employees are all the family that owns and runs the bar to make the choice themselves. We played a couple of nights in a LA bar that allowed smoking but the whole band made the decision to stop working there. We decided that we didn't need the job bad enough to work in a smokey atmosphere. Of course this is a rarity in LA now but would be harder in a state where all bars allow smoking.





[This message has been edited by Nigel (edited 02-26-2005).]

As I said in my first post, it hasn't been terrible but it has been noticeable. Realize that I am particularly sensitive to it. Remember last time I played there... it was great... I think there might have been one or two smokers. Wonderful! It just depends on how many smokers. (By the way, I hope to see you and get your opinion on some of these songs!)

Back to the fan... I don't understand why it would not help. I mean, if people are smoking and ventilation is not so good, that smoke is just filling up the bar. Well, a fan pointed out the door moves air out the door. Smoke goes with it. I don't understand why it wouldn't help.

Bill,

If it's a floor (box) fan, you should position it so that it draws fresh air in from outside. This will force the warmer air closer to the ceiling out the door. If the fan is on a pedistal, and relative high above the floor, position it so it blows the air out the door and the cooler air closer to the ground will be drawn in.

Gary

I owned a bar for around 10 years. The best thing to draw out smoke is an exhaust fan in the ceiling.
DonM

All musicians should carry Febreze,it can keep the stage area fresher..

In bad places .... put you fan BEHIND you and blow it out into the crowd ... that'll teach 'em !