Hey guys,
If any of you dislike arrangers in some way,
arrangers Rule. I used to think that pros use MusicWorkstations, most of them use Arrangers, If You don`t beilive it go to the topic: Arranger Keyboards, you`ll see, I never thought anyone will encourage me in Arranger keyboards.

Wrong again.....
MUSICIANS rule, not the tools. Arrangers, workstations or acoustics ... they are all tools of the musician. Embrace the technology or get outta the way !

U.D.
...settle down.....

Funny how perceptions can totally shift in one day!

-ED- (Now a formal an NLP practitioner!)

What Dave said. Also, I hate arrangers.

-tek

Whenever I see live performances on TV, I don't see an arranger keyboard....usually they're using a Triton or Motif.

They hide arranger keyboards backstage, so Tek can watch the show too.

Actually, it's a bit more complicated with TV shows. Even though you can't see arranger boards, you can sure hear them. Couple of comedy shows in the 90's used Korg I3 arranger workstations. Sometimes there's just too much happening, so there's no time to invite bands and musicians, rehearse etc.
I also know a few studio pros, who among many other synths and instruments use high end arrangers.


-ED-

[This message has been edited by 3351 (edited 03-11-2004).]

I don't watch TV.

-tek

"Who's line is it anyway" often uses a Korg I30, as well as others. The main reason you hardly (if ever) see arrrangers on TV is because you don't see a solo performer. It's always a band or a singer. You can BET that there are prerecorded trax behind the lip-sync'd vocals too.
Hollywood ...... hee heee..... They could NEVER do what I do.

Tek,
No TV? How about women?

-ED-

I'm actually thinking about purchasing a Tyros. I like the sound quality from demos I've heard, but I would really like to get my hands on one first. I'm professional, to the point where I make my living performing and producing and have had minor radio success. I've never used an arranger up to this point, and I stilll probably won't use it for the majority of my work; the sounds yes, the styles no. Even the styles will come in handy though for instant drum loops for helping to create ideas and sketches. Plus it would be a handy tool when I'm hired to do a cheap production or if I can't be in the studio at all, so at least the performer can get some semblance of accompaniment without me spending days on it.

Carefull!!!!! The keys are tiny compared to a FULL sized kb like you're used to. Some folks have compromised their technique to adjust to it, but I just can;t. It squashes my octave spread too much. I think it's about an 1/8" per octave or more.

If You aren`t gonna use any styles, Workstation might be better, most of the styles on Tyros are same as on previous Yamahas (psr-2000, psr-9000 etc..) but there are new styles (like Schlager), I played on it, It looks cool, but most(not everything) is the same.

Rory

There are other options available if the styles aren't going to be the main focus of what you'll use your next board for. I agree that the Tyros has good sounds, but I passed on it because I wouldn't use the styles all that much.

For example, I have One Man Band, which is a software program that can play chord progressions and style parts of any Yamaha format style in real time. I use my Motif ES and sometimes my SY-XG50 soft synth as the tone modules. I can also do the same with Yamaha's XG works software, but only step written / recorded. There are many styles available for pretty much any Yamaha arranger, as well as a lot of others ( Korg, Roland, Ketron, etc ) styles that have been converted to Yamaha format.

Occasionally I draw drum parts from the styles and elsewhere and then mix them up and modify them in Fruity Loops studio. There is yet another option with FL studio, because by changing the .sty extension to .mid, I can simply import the data I want and modify it in the pattern sequencer.
Styles can be modified insiode of an arranger too, but in FL studio I find the process to be so much easier and faster to boot.

Perhaps the Tyros is the right board for you. Getting your hands on it would give you a better idea. If, however, it isn't exactly what you want, there are several other ways to use style parts, especially if one doesn't need them for live , on stage work.

AJ



[This message has been edited by Bluezplayer (edited 03-13-2004).]

FAEbGBD, What keyboard do you have now or had before?

My primary keyboard now is a Roland XP-80. I have several of the expansion boards for it to increase my sound quality and selection. I was thinking about an arranger simply because I already have a work station keyboard I'm used to. I was thinking it might be a handy tool if for some reason I get the urge to play a certain tune during a live situation that I wouldn't normally play. Usually I use tracks on CD or custom built sequences. Also, as I mentioned, it might be nice to have it sitting in the studio when I can't personally be there to produce, or if the performer is on cheap budget where they want just to hire the engineer and just trigger some styles for suitable accompaniment. I definitely want to upgrade my sound source though, as the XP-80, even with expansion, is beginning to sound a bit dated to me. Not terribly so, but still I'd just like to have another sound source so everything I do doesn't come out Roland sounding.

I'm easily a few months away from making any purchases, so I have time to think it through and take advice. The studio where I do most of my work also owns gigastudio, so I might just be better off investing in a few sample libraries. I just like the instantaneous gratification of a keyboard though, rather than loading and unloading a bunch of libraries and the midi connections and settings and such.

As you can see, i'm in a bit of a quandry.

I guess an arranger could be useful to you then Rory. I understand the instant gratification factor very well, and I like to use mine when I practice or just want to jam.

I think the Tyros could be a good one for you. There is also the new Korg PA1x, which is the newest high end model from Korg. In their arranger lineup, it replaces the PA80.

What I like about the PA80 is the ability to deep edit patches, with as much editing capability as the average workstation. I don't know if this is of any importance to you, but the Tyros doesn't give as much latitude here. The PA series also allow the user to replace any preset style in the board, which adds more user slots and allows you to replace styles that you won't use. It also can do sampling, though I prefer using dedicated samplers. Some of the styles had a more "real" sound to them, but there are less fills per style, so there is a tradeoff.

I'm guessing the PA1x will have everything that the PA80 has, with an updated and improved soundset and several more options, including some I wouldn't likely use very much such as the built in TC works vocalizer, and the CD burner. Still, I'd be very tempted to replace my PA80 with the PA1x if I was going to use an arranger more. I can't recommend one over the other for someone else, but for me if I was going to spend the money, I'd give the PA1x a close look along with the Tyros.

Good Luck Rory

AJ

I heard couple of people that I know that play on new Korg Arrangers and Korg Arrangers got some wicked nice styles, and drums. Roland Arrangers got the most styles 128 onboard and plus about 500 styles on Zip, but the styles on zip are from the older Roland Keyboards but there are also some new styles on Zip. If I would be in your situation I would go and check out Korg arrangers too. And Korg Pa80, I heard, has sound engine from TRITON,so maybe Korg PA1X has TRITON`s sound engine too.

[This message has been edited by Vadim (edited 03-14-2004).]

Does anyone have a link where I might go listen to some PA1X demos? I played on a Korg Trinity for a couple years, and have toyed with the Triton. Never really thought Korg corngered the market on acoustic sounding instruments, especially piano sounds. Seemed to excel in synth/electronic sounds. I'd love to give it a listen though. I probably won't get to do hands-on until the summer Namm, but I would like to here some demos before that if anyone could provide them.
Thanks
Rory

You also may want to take a look at the Gem Genesys or Genesys Pro. It is both an arranger and workstation.

FAEbGBD,
When You tried Triton and Trinity how different were the sounds or which one had better sounds Trinity or Triton? Especialy the Syunth Pads, Synth Heaven, newAge, those kind of sounds?

couldn't really comment on that. I got pretty familiar with the Trinity sounds. Played it regularly for a couple years. I've probably spent an hour or 2 on a Triton. Plus, synth/pad sounds aren't my main interest. Sorry I couldn't help you more, but I'm not qualified to do a fair compare/contrast.

My T3 is my workhorse for live gigs. It's old...and dependable....like me.
I can change voices on the fly, and my SP100, which rides below it, is my dedicated piano, though I do use it for certain piano string combinations.
Find what you like and use it. If it works for you, then problem solved, but let's not put down other peoples units 'cos it's not a Roland, Yam, Korg, Tyros, or whatever. Personally I like the T3 because it's got fat brass.
Works for me....Just my thots..
http://members.shaw.ca/shboom

------------------
...L

I know that Trinity has very low polyphony 32 in single, and 16 in double mode, does it realy effect sequencing? I had casio with 24 notes of polyphony, and that was teribble some notes didn`t even sound in sequencer, and by the way the casio had a 6 track sequencer. I heard of a lot of famous musicians using Trinitys, and some of them use Trinity AND Triton, so then Trinity has some good features if people use it with triton, which is kind of Ironic because Triton is newer then Trinity but they use Trinity with Triton.