Hi,

I recently purchased an 804. The manual is a bit grey in certain areas regarding the memory, there are certain conditions were it states the memory is wiped 80 minutes after turning the piano off.

From what I've seen so far, every part of the memory is wiped after you turn it off....even down to registrations. Surely this can't be right? Why allow you to store 24 panel settings and then have to redo them every time you switch on? Seems stupid to use volatile memory for this feature, or maybe I'm missing something?

Many thanks,

Mike.

Hi.

The "short term" memory (80 minutes) use a little battery to work.
Lifetime for the battery are most often 5 years or so, the same as i.e.in a PC mainboard to
backup Bios etc.
A replacement should fix that easiy, but to save your settings on a floppydisk or whatever
media the different keyboards use, are always a good idea.

I also you'll find something about this matters in the usermanual.

Happy Playing
GJ

Hi GJ, thanks for the info.

I dare say the 80 minute memory works fine, it's just no use to me - I don't see the point of it to be honest (unless it's there in case you forget to save to disk after turning off, meaning you can quickly switch it on and do the deed).

I think I misled you.....the battery is probably fine. What I should have said was that the memory is wiped (for everything) if left overnight, for example.

Cheers,

Mike.

Well, 80 minutes may do if you get a sudden electrical power shutdown I guess.
GJ

As long as the power is restored in 79 minutes I suppose.

It's the most hideous thing I've ever seen implemented in an instrument, or anything else come to think of it. I'm just glad my car radio isn't Technics or I'd probably have to retune my stations every day, or start the engine every 80 minutes.

I quite like it, but I'll be going back to Yamaha as soon as funds allow (not that I have any choice if buying new) .

Cheers.

Mike, all you need to do is save your keyboard setup with your disk drive. All the things that you are concerned about losing will be put on the disk. Then simply reload that disk next time you turn the keyboard on. See page 94 of your manual.

Hi Bob, thanks for the info.

I was experimenting with the info found on page 94 last night.....I think once I get used to it, I'll quite like the idea of being able to recall everything from floppy. Just takes some getting used to.

Regards,

Mike.

Hi Mavermick,
I have a 903, and the same thing applies. Probably all digital pianos are the same (different to keyboards),because they are superior.LOL. Once you get used to saving on floppy you will find it invaluable.
Ray

------------------
Ray The Saint

Thanks for all your comments.

Yes Ray, I've just been experimenting loading a complete bank (all 10 sequencer slots) of MIDI songs, complete with different panel settings. As you say, it is a nice feature to be able to put the disk in and everything be set up perfectly, I quite like it now........but still think it's a little behind the times (if my memory's right, this model was launched in 2002).

I must say it will be nice to prepare a few floppy disks that will load my favourite songs with registrations to match.

Thanks again all!

Mike.

Has it always dropped memory settings like this even when it was new? That is very strange. I have never heard of a keyboard with digital memory doing this before. That is why they always have an internal battery to hold memory when the keyboard is powered down. Maybe the battery in it is flat or has always been faulty.

It would be very inexpensive to replace it to see if that is causing your problem. You would just have to open the keyboard to find it on the circuit board somewhere.


[This message has been edited by Nigel (edited 02-07-2009).]

Hi Nigel,

I've not had it from new.

Like you, I was amazed to think of a digital piano being designed without a "permanent" memory - hence my initial question. I couldn't believe it when my registrations disappeared every day.

However it seems that it is indeed the case that this model only has a memory of 80mins (not timed mine exactly but I've known it keep the settings for 2 hours).

I have actually been inside it as one of the monitor speakers was vibrating on E4, obviously something like a minute piece of dust as I couldn't see it but a blow with a can of air sorted it. Therefore it will be a simple job to swap the battery, but I don't think it will change anything.

Have you got a Technics piano?

Regards,

Mike.

After reading the PR804 manual I was amazed to find that what you say is correct and the memory does discharge after 80 mins so is as designed. I find this a very strange design choice but it certainly does look like saving and loading from floppy is all you can do. I'd just never encounted another keyboard with this sort of limitation before.

No, I don't actually have Technics piano myself.

Hi,

It does seem very strange - although I have to admit I'm getting used to using the floppy drive now to load my MIDI files and matching registrations in one go.

Many thanks,

Mike.

Hello Everyone,

I have the Technics PR900 piano which has always only held 80 minutes of settings without a save or backup of some sort.

I've also had Technics keyboards since the KN650 and ALL have used the same method.

The pianos usually have much the same programming as the keyboards, so it's worth looking to see whether you have a CUSTOM STYLE COPY facility on it somewhere. Here's a quote from my KN7 manual:-

"20 settings (STYLE) including COMPOSER patterns can be stored in the CUSTOM memory area of the RHYTHM GROUP, one MEMORY (BANK) at a time. The patterns stored in CUSTOM are retained even when the power to this instrument is turned off. You can use them during your performance, just like the present rhythms."

This is a good way to save all your favourites as once you are in the Custom Style mode, the songs load within seconds.
If I'm playing for dancing, this is where I save the evening's programme.

Good luck!

Audrey

Hi Maverick,

Hi Maverick,

Try again Ray!!!!!!
Hi Maverick,by now you are starting to realise the advantage in using the floppies.
It is useful when you find a registration you like and now you can keep it on floppy and recall when you desire.
Nigel, please with respect, a digital piano is never just a keyboard. There is a marked difference, firstly they are extremely heavy to cart around to gigs, secondly you do not need any additional equipment to produce quality sound, (mine is 240 watts, 804 is 120 watts output).
On a serious note, all Zoners please spare a thought for The people in Victoria, Australia who have been affected by the bushfires raging in that State. (I know there are quite a few Zoners in that State). It has been declared the worst disaster of any kind in our Countries history with latest report of 131 dead, 800 homes lost including two complete townships wiped out, and these numbers will rise daily as searches continue.
It makes one feel so helpless to be able to assist from a distance by just offerring money, when hundreds of the victims have no idea where they are going to sleep tonight, or for many weeks to come.
Ray

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Ray The Saint

Re. the 80 Minute memory retention question. If I remember correctly, the volatile memories' content, is maintained by a large capacitor - not a battery. This means that when the instrument is switched off, the capacitor will slowly discharge and eventually, there will be insufficient energy left in the capacitor, to maintain the memory content. This explains the limited back-up time of around 80 minutes.

I believe the design concept to be quite sound in this respect, since alternative long-term storage is also provided - Floppy disk, SD Card, possible Hard Disk expansion on some models and even a link to PC.....

There is another possible reason for using a Capacitor, rather than an internal re-chargeable battery, to provide memory back-up. Whilst a battery would provide virtually permanent back-up for the volatile memory - as it does in a PC for the real time clock etc. - these batteries do have a limited life. However, a Capacitor will have a much longer life than a rechargeable battery and should not require replacement, during the life of the instrument. Changing the battery in a PC is a relatively simple procedure, compared to doing so in some of the Keyboard instruments.......

Hi Bill,

Mine doesn't have an SD slot, that would be nice. It has a PC connection alright, but I found this not so good.

I don't mind the floppies really - just seem so sllloooooow compared to what we are continually spoiled with these days.

As for capacitors - well, they are the cause of many problems on Yamaha Clavinovas (not only do they fail, they leak and destroy the PCB tracks). I hate electrolytic capacitors and are the cause of much damage in car radios, ecus and everything else in between - guessing they're electrolytic, which I'd bet my last pound they are. I'd much rather have a NiMH battery than a cheap cap.

Many thanks,

Mike.

Hi Mike,
The back-up capacitors used in this case, are of the Tantalum type. They are 1 Farad 5.6 Volt and are connected to the 3v3 DC supply line. I have never yet known a capacitor of this type to leak, since they use a solid dielectric. And of course, they are very low voltage types and not subject to the 'strains' imposed on the higher capacity electrolytic types, commonly used in power supplies.

Technics +1.

That's nice to know. I've never known a firm to use Tantalum caps, even the brain of my Mitsubishi 3000GT died due to leaking electrolytics.

It's nice to know!

Thanks,

Mike.

Some years ago I had a Technics organ, It was, as far as I can determine, the predecessor of the Technics keyboard line.
It used a capacitor to keep the memory alive (they claimed about three weeks). When the capacitor died, I replaced it with a 3.6 volt lithium battery. I put a diode in the positive lead of the battery so that it wouldn't be charged (and damaged) when the organ was turned on. When I sold the organ, six years later, the battery was still doing it's job and I had not lost a setting in six years.
Just a thought,
Walt

Good info thanks.

You'd have thought the best way for memory was to use a standby function, mine's always plugged in but of course once you power off it doesn't know it is.

Seems daft to offer limited memory when there's 230V begging to be used.

The battery idea is a good one but I don't know whether I brave enough to change something from it's original design.

Many thanks,

Mike.

Wow! You learn something every day.

During the last week I've had problems with my PC which I cured by changing the 6 year old battery and as Bill Norrie pointed out this is relatively easy compared to the details mentioned here. Until now, I didn't know any of the concerns with batteries in the keyboards/organs and frankly, even if I knew where to start, I don't think I would have the nerve to try it. "Every man to his trade" as the saying goes and I am sure I would have to call in an expert.

It is all very interesting though.

Audrey