Hi Folks.I have been told by a friend,Who's
friend,has been in contact with Technics.
He assures me that a floppy drive is available to plug into the rear of the KN2600.I have asked my friend, to contact his friend, and ask serious questions.
I don't think it is possible!,but who knows.
Has any one heard of this possible advantage?.I would love it to be true.
Sincerely.
Joe

The external floppy disk drive would probably have to be connected to the USB port located at the back of a KN2600 or KN7000. Pending further verification, if such a connection is feasible then a USB drive (which is similar to an SD card in terms of storage capacity and speed) is not only possible but also far more superior.

Khai

Hello Khai,
I must take issue with you, with regard to your comments above
Since the Technics keyboards appear to a computer like an External disc drive, it would not be possible to connect any other kind of disc drive to the USB port. It would be like connecting one disc drive directly to another and expecting them to be able to transfer data between themselves.

Whilst external USB Floppy disc drives do exist, I cannot understand how you can compare the performance and capacity of such a device, with that of an SD card!

------------------
Willum

Today I bought a USB 2.0 floppy Disk Drive from Comp USA for 39.95 USD. I bought it for the new Toshiba Laptop with the 17 inch screen that does not have a floppy but only has a multi drive.
I don't think I will hook it up to the KN26 or 7000 based on what ORB, (Bill Norrie) sez here. However, I can experiment with it. I have a scsi CD hooked up to the PSR 9000 and it works great in conjunction with the hard drive that is also in it.
Bebop

Hi Bill Willum,

I would like to apologize to you for the misunderstanding. I used the term USB drives to mean only those that rely on digital storage without moving parts, as opposed to disk drives (such as the floppy disk drives and hard disk drives).

Our Technics keyboards will be something far inferior and functionally restricted if they merely "appear to a computer like an External disc drive". Let's hope that we don't underestimate or think of our intelligent keyboard as a mere receptacle of data, or an underdog or slave, even for something as complicated as a system exclusive dump. The business is more than just data transfer and storage. How a USB device appears to a computer is up to the device, the device driver(s) and other supporting software(s). A USB device may also be a USB drive but not vice versa. Connect your KN7000 or KN2600 to your computer via USB 2.0 and discover for yourself gradually the many-splendoured things that spark between the keyboard and computer. . . . . It is a love affair more vividly told, unfurled and sped up many times.

Kind Regards,
KHAI

it makes no difference whether disk drive or digital flash storage, the kn7000/2600 are usb slave devices, so connecting any other slave device will not work. They are also usb1.1 devices so usb2 will make no difference to performance.

Dear TechnicsPlayer,

If you have little faith or experience in the untapped capabilities of what your technics keyboard(s) can do when they are interfaced with a computer, then please doublecheck your Technics operating instructions. Under the section about Computer Connection using the USB terminal of KN7000, KN2600 and KN2400, you can connect to the computer via USB in the following modes:

NORMAL
PC as master
KN as master
KN as slave
INTERFACE

May I rest the case, and repeat "Connect your KN7000 or KN2600 to your computer via USB 2.0 and discover for yourself gradually the many-splendoured things that spark between the keyboard and computer. . . . . It is a love affair more vividly told, unfurled and sped up many times".

Khai

Dear Khai, I have no need to read the operating instructions.

The functions you refer to are midi transfer functions requiring the relevant software and drivers on a pc. They have nothing to do with direct interfacing of flash memory (or floppy disk drive) usb devices plugged directly into the KN7000/2600. The KN7000/2600 does not have any host capability to enable communication with such slave devices.

I repeat that this will not work and you are merely giving people totally unfounded false hopes if trying to imply that it will.

Thus I rest the case.

Dear TechnicsPlayer,

Let's be clear. I never claim that the "fire of love" can spark between a largely passive storage device (such as flash memory, hard disk drive or floppy disk drive) and a KN7000 or KN2600, and so we agree with each other more or less, minus your misinterpretation(s). Rather, the "fire" is between the keyboard and the computer, supported by established protocols and software tools. Let me repeat what I wrote: And earlier still: The second quote is also a general and inductive statement that is relevant to other situations not involving musical instrument(s). Whether or not MIDI is involved in just one of the possibilities, and MIDI is only one of the possible protocols. Hence, we can both have the last words, and I would be humble to learn and cross-reference with original sources and instruction manuals, and do extra testing and hunt for tools to make the fire spark hot and bright between my musical instruments and computer.

Hi!

In the last paragraph of my previous posting, there is a minor typo on my part: the word "in" should be "is" in the phrase "Whether or not MIDI is involved in just one of the possibilities, ...."

Khai

The section about Computer Connection in the Technics Operating Instructions Manual refers to both USB terminals and MIDI terminals. The configurations corresponding to the five modes (NORMAL, PC as master, KN as master, KN as slave, and INTERFACE) can actually be seen as individual schematic diagrams on the screen of the KN7000, KN2600 and KN2400 when one uses the ^ and v buttons to select a desired mode.

Khai

Midi communication through usb has nothing to do with whether KN7000/2600 can use an external usb floppy or flash drive and does not change the facts as I have described them. It will not work, end of story.

Hi Folks.
"WOW" What have I done?.

I think I will speak on behalf of many people who would like to say something on this subject,but like me, not tecnical enough to comment. "I will say". a lot of people on the site are far more able to answer the question I asked,My trouble is, when a person who knows what they are talking about tells me something.I tend to believe what they say,trust comes to mind.
I do know information can pass from P.C to KN7000/2600,We have all done that of course.
And the interface is USB.I also understand that when using floppies,we first load the floppies onto an SD card,and then put the SD card into the keyboard.But it is possible to load from PC direct to an SD Card located in the keyboard, using Song Manager. This is why I am confused.If I can load from PC floppy to SD card located in the KN2600,Why can I not load from a USB floppy to a SD card in the KN2600.The reason is not at all clear to me.
Sincerely.
Joe.

asked a perfectly reasonable question and got the correct answer...

when transferring from pc to panel in the KN7000/2600 through Song Manager and the usb connection (you can't copy from pc to sd through Song Manager, you copy files to keyboard memory and then save to sd, unless a restore operation) you are using a pc software and pc drivers designed for the KN7000/2600 for midi transfer and a pc with windows loaded which is a host enabled device capable of talking to slave devices such as KN7000/2600 and any other usb slave device such as a usb floppy drive or usb flash drive (since this has been raised as if there is some difference to a usb floppy when for this question there is no difference at all).

A usb floppy (or usb flash drive) has no software, drivers, or transfer protocol, and neither has the KN7000/2600 the hardware or software to be enabled as a host device, so no communication is possible. Connecting the two together would be no different to connecting two usb floppy drives to a powered hub without any connection to a computer and expecting to be able to copy a floppy from one to the other.

To work it would have to be an intelligent usb floppy drive with host capability, which I have never seen yet, though I do have a battery powered host device for connecting two slave devices in the field such as cameras or card readers and portable hard drives. However even this would not work because the transfer protocol is designed for copying from one device to a folder on the other, both being usb mass storage devices. There would be zero capability of copying files from usb floppy to sd and updating the system files to enable the files to be seen in screen, and not even the correct protocols to be able to load into keyboard memory, the KN7000/2600 is not configured as a usb mass storage device, so a complete non-starter.

Your insisting and harping on such a plain fact that I never object in the first place are just like running in a circle.

As I indicated, check all that I have written and you'll find that my writing agrees with you on this point both specifically and by default. In addition, I have also generalise to other situations as described. As clarified and stated in my previous post, I never claim that the "fire of love" can spark between a largely passive storage device (such as flash memory, hard disk drive or floppy disk drive) and a KN7000 or KN2600.

Khai

come off it... telling me to read the instruction book about "untapped capabilities" was supposed to be agreeing...? and then bringing up the midi modes as if they had anything at all to do with an answer to the question when totally irrelevant...? that doesn't fool anyone.

I'm glad you've finally come around to agreeing though, it took long enough.

Dear TechnicsPlayer,

I am sorry if there is the possibility that I offended you by suggesting that reading the manual may help.

My mentioning of the "untapped capabilities" was in the context of stating "How a USB device appears to a computer is up to the device, the device driver(s) and other supporting software(s)", and in debunking the restrictive context of your statement that "the Technics keyboards appear to a computer like an External disc drive".

As I indicated, the section about Computer Connection in the Technics Operating Instructions Manual refers to both USB terminals and MIDI terminals, NOT just MIDI.

Khai

Basically, the points that I have been making refer to the broader capabilities of a PC and a keyboard (via MIDI, USB and/or other types of terminals) and somehow it got interpreted as disputing the impossibility of a keyboard driving a passive USB drive. The misunderstanding probably started as a result of my initial, exploratory entertaining of the feasibility of Phil Lynch's story sourced from a friend who has been in contact with Technics.

Khai

That is a lie, you will not find that statement anywhere in my posts. Don't put words into my mouth and then try to pretend they are quotes.



so what? midi down the usb has absolutely no relevance towards explaining whether a usb floppy will work plugged into the back of the KN7000/2600 the question which I answered correctly in the first place. But of course AFTER I had explained it to Phil suddenly you say you agreed with me all the way through the thread after all...

Since I no longer own a technics arranger I rarely feel the need to post in this section anymore. However I do read it regularly to see what you are all up to. The above quote made me laugh out loud!!! (and I mean a real belly laugh!)

Khai,
Please if I can offer you a little friendly advice? ....Technicsplayer has no need to check his manual believe me. He probably had a hand in writing it in the first place ... and if not could (and did) write his own manual much appreciated by the technics community at large.

I don't think there is anyone with as wide a knowledge of technics boards than Alec and generally if he says something is fact you can lay money on it.
Trust me!
Very best wishes
Tony

Dear TechnicsPlayer,
I stand corrected about attributing a quote to the wrong person. I should have written as follows: . . . debunking the restrictive context of [Bill Norrie's] statement that "the Technics keyboards appear to a computer like an External disc drive". My apology.

Yes, Tony W, TechnicsPlayer is really Mr Alec Pagida, unless I got that wrong too.

Dear TechnicsPlayer,

Please by all means check my writings for accuracy without feeling any need to accuse or dismiss the other of lying and of putting words in other's month. I would like to think that people who contribute their time and effort here are basically decent, irrespective of their ranks, credentials and knowledge. Many disagreements are simply the results of misinterpretations or misunderstandings.

My earlier statement(s) that I agreed with you are by default and by my own admission, not by your persuasion or erudition. Furthermore, I could not immediately forclose Phil Lynch's cursory story without further verification or knowing the story in more detail. I have neither claimed nor wanted to discuss that MIDI data going through USB terminal(s) has any relevance "towards explaining whether a usb floppy will work plugged into the back of the KN7000/2600", and I have not disputed the question that you "answered correctly in the first place". I have already stated emphatically that I have never objected in the first place to a plain fact/explanation that TechnicsPlayer pointed out in answering someone else's question. More to the point, that particular fact/explanation is so plain that for TechnicsPlayer to think that I could even object to it with any impunity in the first place is puzzling.

Khai


[This message has been edited by Khai (edited 01-10-2005).]

No on the contrary it looks like you may have got at least one thing right
out of all the instruments in your profile what one do you actually own ??

is the reason for your multiple posts trying to get up to speed to become a full member ???

I agree, the misinterpretation is attributing quotes I did not make. However although Bill's quote you highlighted is not strictly correct in a pedantic sense of terms of a usb mass storage device coming up in My Computer, the spirit and conclusion of Bill's post is correct from the point of view of answering the original question. Your reply to Bill about usb flash devices and usb2 connections was just irrelevant to the question.

Throughout this thread I stuck to the query whereas you kept talking about other non-related functions that had no bearing towards answering the enquiry at all.

The misunderstanding thus is why the thread had to go on so long and waste everybody's time for such a simple conclusion that was settled in the first half dozen posts.

The mystery is why advice needed to be offered to read the manual in reply to a correct answer which you now claim to have agreed with all along. But I think the real story has become clear by now.