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#5704 - 10/04/05 10:47 AM Re: Any keyboardists and guitarists?
Nigel Online   wise
Admin

Registered: 06/01/98
Posts: 6122
Loc: Ventura CA USA
Quote:
Originally posted by Franklin:
I saw a keyboardist/guitarist Sat. night. He played everything thru the PA and used in ear monitors. For his Strats he used a POD into the PA, the keys direct. The Strat had a horrible thin sound, I'm not sure I could deal with that!

Do you all find that going direct w/ the keys is good enough for you (besides those running into a rotary cab!)?



I have heard the Line 6 POD sound good but it seems to depend a lot on the sound system it is running through. I don't think the average PA using horns and 15 inch speakers really provides the midrange that is needed for good guitar sounds. I recently played with a guitarist that was running a POD into a solid state Yamaha amp with 12 inch speakers and I was surprised how good it sounded.

I carry two amps with me when I play live. I use a Fender Hot Rod Deluxe for guitar and a powered Wharfdale cabinet for my onstage keyboard sound & monitor. It is alway nice if your sound can be reinforced with the PA but I wouldn't want to rely on that as my main sound source.

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#5705 - 10/04/05 12:33 PM Re: Any keyboardists and guitarists?
Sheriff Offline
Member

Registered: 02/18/05
Posts: 965
Loc: Frankfurt, Hessen, Germany
About POD: I'm having one (version 2.0) and I'm playing it normally direct via the second channel of my studio mixer while using a first channel as an enhancing system for better pre-equalization and as a sustainer. From my second channel I'm sending to my multi-effect and returning to the mixer.
It works good for me in the studio...

...but in life situations there are slightly different conditions. I realized it at my last three concerts where I tried to use my POD:

1st gig: POD -> Marshall (clean sound!, 4x12") -> two mics -> PA
My Gibson sounded a little bit flat. My slightly distorted clean sound came absolutely clean without any distortion.

2nd gig: POD -> keyboard practise amp ( , clean sound!, 2x12") -> one mic -> PA
My sweet humbucker lady sounded a little bit more agressive but still not that way like I knew it from my studio working. Also, the sound came a little bit muddy (okay, it was raining in waterfalls so the sound could have been washed away... ).

3rd gig: POD -> DI -> PA
This was the first time that my Gibson sounded nearly like it does in my studio. I guess it would have been absolutely done so if I had used my multi-effect too...

Nevertheless, I guess that the POD can also be used via an amp but for that choice you'll probably have to search for another sound setting. Well, there's a switch where you can take choice for "direct" or "amp A.I.R. mode". Maybe this should be the ability to cut the amp simulation. I guess you don't need that if you're playing via a real guitar amp. It makes quite a sense: If there's a real amp then you don't need to simulate it!

[This message has been edited by Sheriff (edited 10-04-2005).]

[This message has been edited by Sheriff (edited 10-04-2005).]
_________________________
Greetings from Frankfurt (Germany),
Sheriff ;-)

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#5706 - 10/04/05 10:12 PM Re: Any keyboardists and guitarists?
Nigel Online   wise
Admin

Registered: 06/01/98
Posts: 6122
Loc: Ventura CA USA
Sheriff you mention you used the POD at 3 concerts. You must have used some sort of amplification even it wasn't a guitar amp. What was amplifiying your POD output? I suspect that may not have provided the full frequency range needed for your guitar sound if you felt it was lacking.

Why don't you just get a tube amp instead of trying to get that sound with modeling ? A Fender tube amp really isn't going to cost much more than a POD with a pedal board. While I do like using the POD ( I have a POD 2.0 with a pedal board at home ) I always use a Fender tube amp when I play live and just take the POD as an emergency backup. You just can't beat the real thing. Fender make great tube amps nowadays at an affordable price point. I think their amps are better value now than they were 30-40 years ago when a Twin Reverb still cost around $1000. For around $500 you can buy a new Fender amp that sounds just great and provides dual channel control.

Another great modeling option to checkout are the Vox modeling solutions. They also sound very authentic .... but I'd still choose the real thing over modeling any day. Don't get me wrong I think the Line 6 POD is great if you have a good solid state amp to run it through with 10-12 inch speakers. ( PS I did once try it with my guitar tube amp and it didn't sound nearly as good as when I run it through my 200 Watt solid state box that I use for keyboard ).


[This message has been edited by Nigel (edited 10-05-2005).]

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#5707 - 10/05/05 12:52 PM Re: Any keyboardists and guitarists?
Sheriff Offline
Member

Registered: 02/18/05
Posts: 965
Loc: Frankfurt, Hessen, Germany
Well, Nigel, in earlier days I used my Marshall JCM 800 lead 50 watts top with one Marshall box 1965A (that fits for 100 watts top ). I played my No Name Strat with high presence and a good equalization balance. I used...
...for distortion my Ibanez Tube Screamer,
...for sustain my D.O.D. compressor (a very aggressive little thing ),
...for special effect #1 my Ibanez Stereo Chorus,
...for special effect #2 my Ibanez Stereo Phazer.

Over the years the little foot pedals were lost. It didn't make me really angry because the little cables produced so many noise when kicking the effect on or off...*knick*knack*shredder*kkkrrrrrkkk*...do you remember those days?
Nevertheless, they were good little effects. And each effect with its own processing electronic had been their biggest advantage. In the opposite multi-effect-processors were much more expensive but they came with effect algorithms...

Well, to make it short, in later years I came to the conclusion that it's much better to work in a studio than in a loud rehearsal. The more that it seemed to be unable to get a final band line-up and music direction. So, I needed a guitar effect with a wide range of sound ability - the POD was my choice!

I didn't plan to play at the last three concerts but I jumped in because the lead guitarist spent some holidays with his family. I wasn't really applicable and I tried my very best with the POD. Another point was that we couldn't play with our own equipment but only at the last gig. The presenters came with their own big (really BIG) PA and had their own profi mixing engineer. He really did a good job but the weak sound came from me... ...sorry, audiencers!!!

EDIT: I've used one of two sound settings that I've programmed in my studio where I'm actually working on an album. They are good settings for my studio but I didn't test them over an amp. In the band's rehearsal I've played the POD direct over the PA system which was also used by the DJ and the keyboardist. The POD sounds good via a mixer and a hifi system or a wide ranged high quality PA system. Maybe I should try the POD through the Bose PAS???
I'll start a new band project at the beginning of 2006. Then I'll test different options and settings of the POD - especially for life situations. But for now I'm feeling comfortable with the POD via mixer/PA.
I don't know if 12" speakers will help to enhance the POD's sound but one thing is sure...
...12" speakers made history - 12" rules (at least for guitarists)!!!

Regards, Danny

[This message has been edited by Sheriff (edited 10-05-2005).]

[This message has been edited by Sheriff (edited 10-05-2005).]
_________________________
Greetings from Frankfurt (Germany),
Sheriff ;-)

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#5708 - 10/06/05 01:58 PM Re: Any keyboardists and guitarists?
Franklin Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 09/29/05
Posts: 10
Loc: Watertown
Thanks again guys! No I just gotta figure out how to pay for new gear.

I'm gonna have to sell a guitar or two I guess.......

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#5709 - 10/06/05 08:18 PM Re: Any keyboardists and guitarists?
Sheriff Offline
Member

Registered: 02/18/05
Posts: 965
Loc: Frankfurt, Hessen, Germany
Quote:
Originally posted by Nigel:
... What was amplifiying your POD output?

At least I understand your question...well, I think I understand it...
My POD was amplified first by a Marshall 100 watt top, second by a keyboard practise amp and last direct by PA (via DI).

On every amp I tried to use the clean sound setting with a wide equalization range (bass=1:00AM, middle=2:00AM, trebble=3:00AM). I've got the clean sound setting but no wide equalization range. I simply didn't know these amps. Even the Marshall top was a new modell which I didn't know before. So, I couldn't get the POD to the point where I wanted to have it...
Regards, Danny
_________________________
Greetings from Frankfurt (Germany),
Sheriff ;-)

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#5710 - 10/07/05 01:05 PM Re: Any keyboardists and guitarists?
captain Russ Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/02/04
Posts: 6590
Loc: Lexington, Ky, USA
I use both a keyboard and a guitar for most of my jobs. To save weight and pieces for the "one-nighter-singles", I use a nylon string directly into a PA.The on-board pre-amp and effects in the PA seem to do the trick for me. If I use a steel string or an electric (Parker Fly is the instrument of choice), I use a San amp pre-amp. It' not ideal. If I have the room and the strength, I use a mid-80's Fender super Champ lined out to the PA. For my jazz trio, I use a Polytone and an L-5 or the Parker Fly. For variety/dance music, I use a Super Reverb with a 335 or, again, the "Fly".

As I get older, the equipment gets lighter. Soon, I be playing a kazoo!


Russ

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#5711 - 10/13/05 01:29 PM Re: Any keyboardists and guitarists?
captain Russ Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/02/04
Posts: 6590
Loc: Lexington, Ky, USA
Speaking of lap steels, in a moment of "silliness", before I stopped drinking, I once took a Hammond C-3, had a new case built and added a Fender double-neck steel on the top-built-in. Really screwed up the value of both instruments, but it was something to play bass pedals and switch to lap steel, mid-tune.I had a house job, so there was no moving involved. Sold the C-3 years ago. The only good thing I did was save both the steel body and C-3 case. Traded the Fender, and have been looking for a replacement for years.


Man the dumb things you do when you're young...

Russ

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#5712 - 10/13/05 03:29 PM Re: Any keyboardists and guitarists?
freddynl Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/17/99
Posts: 1150
Loc: netherlands
Well Russ nothing strange about it.
We did cut all hammonds in two pieces to make them transportable those days..

You might say that these were the first portable hammonds.. (still a lot of weight but a lot easier to deal with though.)
_________________________
Keyboards/Sound Units: Kurzweil 2600S, Roland VR-760, Acces Virus C, Roland G-800, Akai AX60, Minimoog, Machine Drum, Roland R8-M, mediastation x-76

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#5713 - 10/13/05 04:02 PM Re: Any keyboardists and guitarists?
captain Russ Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/02/04
Posts: 6590
Loc: Lexington, Ky, USA
Man, I remember. Mine were generally house jobs, so I have no excuse for the "butcher" job I did on the "C" but stupidity.

Those were the days...at least what I can remember of them.

regards,


russ

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