The demos and reviews on the new Roland V-Stage Piano are coming in.


Sound Demo of 14 factory presets
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TqTZvZrSoWc


30 Music demos, no talking
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CBXsBgXdYC4


Demo by Roland’s Scott Tibbs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A7DangsaXtU


Demo by Roland’s Ed Diaz
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UEQEDyKGl8g


Deep dive into all the features by Andertons Synths.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TBx2nQxlaco


Unboxing and Jam by Doctor Mix
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xf_4U2S1CXI


Overview and specs
https://www.roland.com/global/promos/v-stage_series/



Note: For pianists deciding between the Roland RD-2000 EX and the new Roland V-Stage Piano, the RD-2000 EX has the better PHA-50 Action which feels more luxurious.

The Roland V-Stage Piano has the lessor PHA-4 action also found in the Roland RD-88 EX.

I have both the RD-2000 and RD-88 models. The difference in key action is readily noticeable.


MSRP:

88 key version = $4000
https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/VSTAGE88--roland-v-stage88-stage-piano

76 key version = $3500
https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/VSTAGE76--roland-v-stage76-stage-piano

Seems to me a roland VR 730 would do a decent job for a lot less money. Put it over a decent DP with weighted keys and your there. I'd rather have a full time piano and be able to jump to the second keyboard for other sounds. But thats me. 😎

Hi Bill,

I agree with you.

The ideal solution for playing the Piano, Organ and Synth sounds is to have a dual manual setup.

The lower manual can be the Roland RD-2000 EX with its superb Progressive Hammer Action (PHA-50) 88 weighted keys with escapement for playing the Piano voices that would satisfy a pianist.

The upper manual can be the Roland V-Combo VR-730 waterfall keybed with 73 semi-weighted keys optimized for playing the Organ and Synth voices.

The price of this combo would be $2,600 + $1900 = $4,500.

This is $500 more than the 88-key version of the Roland V-Stage Piano but is a smarter choice based on better usability and ergonomics.

That would be a bueatiful combo but if your a gigging musician I'd hate to have to move the RD2000 around. I have the FP90, the basic piano version of the 2000 and in its case it's got to be about 75 lbs. Its only been in the case once when I wanted to move it downstairs so I could use it after my surgery but wow, its heavy. I'd love to get a gig with my FP90, no amp, just sing and play thru the pianos speakers, they're really good, but again the weight.

Hi Bill,

Yes, I see your point.
I agree this combo will not work out for gigging musicians.

The Roland RD-2000 EX weighs 48 lbs. It is not easy to move around when you consider the extra weight of the necessary road case to safely transport it.

Next you would have to add the weight of the Roland VR-730 which adds another 21 lbs plus the keyboard stand. This could become unwieldy.

Weight is a very important factor for gigging musician. This could be one of the main reasons why the GENOS 2 weighing just 31 lbs is so popular.

The big problem with dual keyboard setups is, if the lower keyboard (usually the piano) has a ton of controls and displays on it, you can’t get the manuals close enough to move easily from one to the other, like you can on a B3 for instance.

The only way something like this would work for me is to get a dumb 88 controller with the best action possible, and sit the main keyboard completely on top of it, so the actions are close together and lined up.

Hi Diki,

I completely agree on your solution.

The Kawai VPC1 88-key Controller with the superb RM3 Grand Wooden Key Piano Action is designed for this scenario. It is heavy though at 65lbs.


https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/VPC1--kawai-vpc1-virtual-piano-controller



Here is an excellent demo of the Roland V-Stage Piano by Roland’s David Ahlund.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9h0Gvbgg5U


Looks like the Roland V-Stage Piano is designed to be a portable version of the Roland FANTOM 8 EX Workstation that retails for $4,200 and weighs a hefty 66 lbs.


https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/FantomEX8--roland-fantom-8-ex-synthesizer-workstation


This strategy is similar to introducing the Roland RD-88 as a portable version of the Roland RD-2000.

The Roland V-Stage Piano uses the same PHA-4 action as the RD-88.

If someone just wants a portable Piano for gigging they would chose the RD-88.

On the other hand if someone needs the Organ, Electric Piano and 2 Synth Voices layered on top with hands on controls, they would go for the Roland V-Stage Piano.

It is in direct competition to the NORD, but at a lower price point. The market will decide the winner.

Although trained as a pianist, I played all the other electromechanical keyboard and synths as a gigging keyboardist back in the days when there were no alternatives, no arrangers, no workstations, no controller keyboards. And by doing so, I found that the actions themselves became part of the sound. They defined what you wanted and COULD play on them…

I have a huge problem doing ‘normal’ organ techniques on fully weighted piano actions. Same with clavinets, synths etc.. Even Rhodes FELT and played rather differently than a piano. But organ especially, with the heavy palm smears, do it on a piano keybed and you’re soon slicing your hand on the sharp corners that take far more force to depress than a waterfall keyboard..!

Each sound needs its own action, and given that piano is just a small percentage of the sounds a gigging keyboardist uses, when faced with the need to not lug around two keyboards (with a double stand etc.) I go for a 76 plastic. Yes it’s not optimal for piano, but in truth, it’s optimal for 80% of the sounds I use. I’m not sure of the wisdom in using an 88 fully weighted action unless you play 80% piano… 🎹😎

Hi Diki,

I appreciate your well thought out reasoning stating the fundamental differences between the key actions of the Piano and Organ.

On an acoustic piano, the only control the player has over making a sound is the velocity by which their finger strikes a key. There is no concept of bending a note. So the focus falls on creating the best key action that can respond to all shades of note velocity from the lowest to the highest.

Furthermore, the escapement feature in acoustic pianos helps rapid repetition of the same note.

The fact that the lower keys appear heavier is because they need heftier hammers to strike the thicker bass strings.

The graded hammer action and rocking motion of a concert grand is best mimicked by the extra-long wooden keys found in the Kawai MP11SE. These keys are 13.7 inches long pivoting over a pin. Kawai calls this the Grand Feel action.

While this elaborate action is optimized for playing the piano, it is useless for playing the organ.
In fact, there are no Organ voices on the MP11SE and understandably so.

Organ players on the other hand need waterfall style light weight plastic keys with synth action to be able to play fast passages. The Roland V-Combo VR-730 is optimized for playing the Organ voices. The key action mimics a classic Hammond. The expression pedal becomes an essential accessory to vary the overall volume.

Ideally a musician trained on both the Piano and the Organ would prefer to have the Roland VR-730 sitting on top of the Kawai MP11SE.

This of course introduces the weight issue and kills the portability.

Every attempt to combine piano voices with organ, electric piano and synth voices results in a compromise design. One cannot combine the best piano action with the best organ action. It is a matter of physics.

I appreciate the effort of all these manufacturers trying to hit the right balance between the two actions. I could see why Roland decided to put the PHA-4 action on their new V-Stage Piano. A PHA-50 action would have been ideal for playing the piano, but not so much for playing everything else.

Korg did the same with the Kronos and Nautilus using their RH-3 action. It is not the best action for playing the piano, but a workable compromise when you have to play the organ and synth voices.

Finally, nothing beats the real thing. Most classical pianists will opt to perform on a Steinway Model D-274 on stage while Organists will seek out a massive Theater Organ with multiple manuals and a pedal board to showcase their talent.

Jack from Andertons Synths just posted an excellent demo of the Roland V-Stage sounds.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pe0TC9HAVZA


I think this is one of the best portable keyboards to have on stage that allows you to play the Roland Virtual Pianos sounds as well as the Organ, Electric Piano and Synth sounds. It does it all with loads of controls in a single unit.

This has been designed to compete directly with the Nord Stage 4

It is significantly cheaper than the 88-key Nord Stage 4 that retails for $5,700.


https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/Stage4-88--nord-stage-4-88-stage-keyboard


Roland has struck the right balance between choice of voices, key action, hands-on controls, portability and price. They have a winner. It is perfect for live use on stage for a gigging musician.

Me, I’d go for a nice B3 over the theater organ, but I get your point..! 😂🎹

Curiously, my old Kurzweil K2500S has a 76 action that splits the difference between synth action and piano, but it still retains the piano’s sharper edges, and to be honest, so do most synth actions. Heavier than any synth, lighter than most pianos. It works pretty well, and with full sized keys it allows me to be fairly pianistic on it (getting up in between the blacks when needed e.g.). It’s not a waterfall, but the lowered resistance helps to not snag your palm during smears and falls.

I think it’s a Fatar action, but I haven’t found it on anything other than Kurzweil’s…

As to plastic actions, I absolutely LOVE the action on my G70’s 76. A fraction heavier than say a PA4/5x 76 or most 61’s, but the main thing was firstly, full sized black keys, and secondly, the dropped the stupid fake plastic overhang to the keys, so despite not being a true waterfall action, there’s nothing to snag your hand doing smears.

Roland used this action on the G1000 (a fraction lighter, maybe a lighter spring), the VA76 the G70 and the A70 controller keyboard (got one of those!), but all modern Roland’s are using Chinese actions, and they cannot replicate this action (possibly because it was more expensive and heavier than they want nowadays).

So there’s two GREAT actions no longer available. 🥺

Even more troublingly, several new keyboard workstations are coming out with full 88 piano actions, but the middle size 73/76’s are also fully weighted piano actions, meaning only the 61 is a synth action. I cannot understand that logic… if you want fully weighted, it’s because you’re a pianist, and if you’re a pianist you NEED an 88. But the 76 synth weight has long been the ideal action for a gigging keyboardist needing room for BOTH sounds when split (and enough notes for a reasonable piano part) and a light enough action for the 80% of his gig that isn’t playing piano.

I hope this trend doesn’t become the norm…

Hi Diki,

I agree.

The new trend of using weighted action for 73 & 76 key models does not make much sense.

I wish manufacturers would standardize on the 73-key version with Synth Action Keys.

The 73-key version is not only more compact, the black & white key cadence looks less confusing.


Here is how the Yamaha Montage M7 76-key version looks:

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/MontageM7--yamaha-montage-m7-76-key-synthesizer

Here is how the Roland VR-730 73-key layout looks:

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/...rmance-keyboard

My preference is the 73-key layout.


Yes, the synth action on the Roland G70 is ideal. Roland has always been the king of hardware, especially those before they switched to the Chinese actions. Roland gear is indestructible.

I have a Roland RD-700GX Stage Piano. It uses the PHA-2 action. It performs flawlessly after 16 years without a single issue. Roland hit it out of the ballpark with their Expressive Grand Factory Preset. Each of the 88 notes was individually multi-sampled from a Steinway Model D at different velocities.

The Expressive Grand is a joy to play on a PHA-2 action keybed. The keys are fast. They respond like the crack of a whip. They have just the right amount of heaviness. It seems like Roland optimized the PHA-2 action for extracting every nuance from their signature Expressive Grand Steinway sample.

The PHA-4 action on the Roland RD-88 does not have the heft. It feels like plastic.

The PHA-50 action on the Roland RD-2000 feels too damped and sluggish compared to the PHA-2 action on the RD-700GX.

While I have both the RD-88 and RD-2000, I always use the RD-700GX to practice my piano sessions. The Expressive Grand sampled piano is miles ahead of the newer modeled pianos that Roland introduced in the RD-2000. Roland needs to bring back the Expressive Grand. This was their crowning achievement.

You would not find a single user complaining about this Piano-A preset on the RD-700GX or its snappy PHA-2 action.

I like the FSX Synth action on the Yamaha Genos 2. It is good for playing every voice except the Piano.

I found this listing of all keyboard actions by Manufacturer and Model here:


https://chellos-keyboard-players-club.com/thread-15594.html


The Roland A-70, G-70 and G-1000 that you mentioned all use the FATAR TP/8S key action.


https://www.roland.com/au/products/a-70/

I’m not that happy with a 73… after 30 years of 76 being the standard, I see no reason to drop to 73 other than the few people that want to ape the Rhodes 73, and quite honestly, most of the Rhodes purists prefer the Suitcase 88 anyway.

At least they got the low note right… if you’re covering LH bass, you want that low E for the full 4 string range, and a low C is generally unrealistic unless the original was a 5 string bass.

I just don’t understand the need to ‘fix’ something that wasn’t broke! Especially when the ‘fix’ is to give you less… 🙄🎹

Hi Diki,

76-key with a synth action is fine with me. No need to change an established standard.

Here is an excellent demo of the Roland V-Stage Piano by Katsunori.
He knows how to make any instrument shine while exploring the presets and explaning the features.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gH3yU-4OpP0


The Roland V-Stage sounds great. They somewhat copied the Norg Stage 4 hands on interface and presented a much more affordable instrument that many would embrace with open arms.

The real fun would begin when Behringer clones the V-Stage and undercuts Roland. That would complete the circle.

That's very much true. A 76 is perfect when you split the keyboard at C4. The lowest E can be the lowest note as you would have on a bass guitar, and since I played bass my brain can easily picture the whole bass guitar layout in the left section. When I used a 61 key, it was always awkward to have C as the lowest note, and I had only 2 octaves for the left hand which is doable, but not as fluid like on a 76, I wouldn't want to go back to a 61 key that's for sure.


Yamaha made a 73 keys digital piano, the P-121, the short version of the P-125 (88 keys).

I'm surprised that no one came up with a key bed that you could adjust mechanically by disengaging the weights from the keys, and than just have a spring (semi-weight) action key, 'cause it does make a difference when you play synth or piano patches.

It wouldn't be that difficult to build this hybrid key bed, where you would either have a lever that would shift all the weights sideways, disengaging them from the keys, or instead of a lever, you would have an electric (step) motor doing the same thing, plus you could save this in the registration memory if you wanted weights with that patch or not, and with the push of a button you would change things easily. While the keys themselves would have to be designed to have the shape suitable for both scenarios.

I’m afraid it’s more than just weight. Throw, rebound, repetition, all of those vary drastically between piano actions and synth actions. My K2500 is about the only thing I ever played that tried to be a halfway point between synth and piano, but it falls short of being ‘great’ at both. It is what it is… heavier than a synth, lighter than a piano. I guess if I was doing 50/50 it would be the best compromise, but if I’m honest, I'm probably more 70/30 non weighted sounds over piano.

And, of course, the downside is weight. My BK9’s 76 is comparable in feel to say a PA4x, but the better feeling G70 also weighed 25lbs more than the 20lbs BK9, and having removed both actions at one time or another, I can assure you that probably at LEAST 5 of those extra pounds was the action! Then the heavier support weight needs to add more. I'm fairly sure adding a G70 action to a BK9 would have bumped the overall weight 10lbs or so…

For me at my age (70 creeping ever closer!) my main concern is to stress my hands and fingers as little as possible, so while I lose some touch and control playing piano and Rhodes on a synth action, hopefully I’m gaining a few more years of playing without pain…

I just finished watching an interesting live podcast with Ed Diaz on the Roland V-Stage Piano.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1c5UeBicjCU


Ed Diaz is a Senior Product Specialist at Roland and has been with the company for over 18 years. Ed and his fabulous demos has become a staple at NAMM.

If you are contemplating of buying the Roland V-Stage Piano and want to take a deep dive into its architecture, this podcast will answer many questions.

Ed explained how the drawbars can send and receive MIDI System Exclusive messages, even though they do not respond to MIDI CC messages.

Many viewers asked for the Roland MKS-20 Electric Pianos to be included, specifically Electric Piano 1 &2.

This is Ed’s YouTube Channel:


https://www.youtube.com/@EdDiazKeys/videos


Ed gave a lot of useful tips.

I think YouTube podcasts are an excellent way for product specialists to connect with their experienced customers, discuss their concerns and enhancement requests and provide valuable feedback to their development engineers.

Part-2 of this podcast will be coming soon.

Drawbars should be standard CC’s. Plenty of undefined ones (and the MMA really should define them, as many many different B3 clones exist and all do drawbar codes differently) but sysex is MUCH harder to edit, scale and display.

Want to reduce all drawbars by 10% (perhaps to overdrive the Leslie less), piece of cake in an editor. Want to do the same in a string of hex sysex values? A nightmare! Want to use a VSTi B3 client for replacement? Not possible.

Bad idea, Roland!

Hi Diki,

Yes, dropping support of Continous Controller MIDI messages on the drawbars is a foolish oversight on Roland’s part. They provide the easiest way to control other MIDI devices.

Kiyomi Otaka from Roland played some of the best presets on the Roland V-Stage.
She even color coordinated her outfit in red and black to match the V-Stage.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gl8v-MjID4I

At the 4 min mark she plays the V-Stage Piano. It is a modeled piano. It sounds sterile and artificial to me. During the podcast yesterday with Ed Diaz the viewers raised this issue with the V-piano engine.

Ed defended Roland stating that the V-piano engine should be treated as an empty canvas where the end user is free to tailor the sound to their liking by tinkering with all the available parameters.

Ed conceded that Roland has years of experience in sampling technology and can always furnish the best piano samples from their vault if needed. Some users just like to pull up the best sampled piano on their keyboard like the Nord White Grand and concentrate on playing rather than spending hours fiddling with knobs trying to coax the best modeled piano.

No matter how much I tried I could not get any of the modeled pianos on the Roland RD-2000 to sound satisfactory. The realism was missing. The biggest problem was in the initial attack of the waveform. The initial attack on the sampled waveforms are way more complex that gives it their signature character. The models miss this.

The Expressive Grand Sampled piano on the Roland RD-700GX has the signature bell like clarity of a Steinway. All notes have at least 3 multi-samples. You can distinctly hear the change in character as you go through the velocity steps.

While it is true that you can hear the sudden jump from one multi-sample to another, I still prefer the realism and authenticity it brings. You just need to adjust your playing style knowing which velocity interval you need to be confined in to sound smooth.

I was so disappointed that Roland dropped the Expressive Grand sampled piano on the RD-2000. Why would Roland do this? This sampled Steinway was their crowning achievement. This should have been the default piano patch showcased front and center.

Instead Roland wanted to promote their modeled pianos, none of which could measure up to the Steinway sampled piano from the RD-700GX.

When users complained about the piano voices on the RD-2000, Roland made the Expressive Grand sample available as a free downloadable expansion package (RD-EXP04) at their Axial Website.


https://axial.roland.com/category/rd-2000/


I was disappointed yet again.

This was a heavily watered down version of the original. The size of this sample had to be cut down to a measly 32MB to fit the expansion memory space. It sounded nothing as gorgeous as the original Expressive Grand Piano Preset A on the RD-700GX.

This was a cheap clownish imitation.

There is truth to the saying, “Don’t fix it if it’s not broken.”

Roland could have made the RD-2000 a stellar stage piano had they simply kept the original Expressive Grand sampled Steinway. They decided to withhold it instead. I understand they are trying to push their modeled pianos. It takes up way less memory space saving money.

Roland has done the same thing with the V-Stage. They did not provide the Expressive Grand sampled piano. That would have been the only piano voice the users needed.

There is a reason why users love the White Grand Piano on the Nord. This is a darn good sampled piano that sounds so pleasing.

There is a reason why Yamaha does not use modeled pianos. The sampled CFX II and Bosendorfer sound way better.

I like all the sounds on the Roland V-Stage from the demos I am hearing, except the Piano voice.

Have you compared the Expressive Grand against the G70’s GrandX main piano sound? From the way you’re describing it, it’s possible that might be in the G70…

I used that sound in a lot of sessions, even at studios that had an actual Steinway baby grand (and a Yamaha CIIIFX too!) and the producer was always satisfied how it sat in a mix!

It was reported to use a full 64MB (a lot back then!) for JUST that one piano sound.

Haven’t got my hands on an RD2000 yet, but I’m impressed by Pianoteq’s modeled stuff. There are many that say being able to hear the sampl boundaries is just as detrimental as the basic sound being not so lively, but Pianoteq’s models seem pretty lively…

These days for the best piano experience I am far more tempted by most quality VSTi pianos than anything I’ve heard in hardware…

No, I never got a chance to compare the Expressive Grand Steinway sample on the RD-700GX with The Grand X voice on the G-70.

I would guess The Grand X piano sound on the G70 shares the same DNA. Roland engineers spent a lot of effort to capture the dynamics and purity of a Steinway Grand. It sounds pristine with so much expression and character as you go through the velocity levels.

Since this is a sampled piano, there is no smooth transition between the different multi-samples. You have to adjust your playing style so as not to excite the wrong multi-sample at the wrong instant.

Modeled pianos on the other hand have a smooth gradation from your softest touch to the loudest. The drawback is the lack of realism.

As you mentioned there are some exquisite VSTi pianos available today at a reasonable price.
At the budget end of the spectrum there is the Ravenscroft 275 for $199.


https://www.vilabsaudio.com/Ravenscroft-By-VI-Labs


This is a 342MB download. It often goes on sale for $139.
I would recommend this as a starter piano VST. It is easy on your CPU.

On the other end of the spectrum there is the gorgeous Synchron Fazioli F308 Virtual Piano by Vienna Symphonic Library.

The model number 308 refers to the length of the piano in centimeters making it the longest piano in the world at 10’ 2”


https://www.vsl.co.at/products/synchron/fazioli-f308


Sweetwater sells this for $331.

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/...tandard-library

If someone is not happy with the modeled pianos on their RD-2000, these two are good alternatives.


Here is the official demo of the VSL Fazioli F308 VST features.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B6bYAwz5ZVE


Here is another demo of the VSL Fazioli F308 VST by Simeon Amburgey.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGKjLl5mViE


It is a smarter choice to buy this than the German Concert Grand V-Piano Expansion Kit for the RD-2000 at $149.

I find Pianoteq’s modeled pianos quite convincing, personally, especially if you tweak the per string tuning so it’s not robotically in tune. Even some sampled pianos are just so incredibly well tuned they lose a bit of the ‘life’ that an actual piano gives you. Let’s be honest… after a world class piano technician has tuned a grand piano to be as technically ‘perfect’ as possible, you get maybe 30 minutes of spirited playing on it and then it always drifted out of perfect tune!

And that’s what you tend to hear on pop and jazz recordings. An ALMOST in tune piano!

If you can tweak the per string (not per note) tuning on a modeled piano, it starts to sound WAY more ‘real’. By the way, if sampled pianos are good enough, I’m a big fan of Keyscapes, simply because, for the money, you not only get a great piano, you get almost every other electro-mechanical keyboard as well! Killer Rhodes’s, Clav’s, Wurli’s, toy pianos, harpsichords, organs, you name it. Pricey but then divide the cost by the number of GREAT keyboards you get, and it becomes a real bargain…